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Old 2009-08-28, 20:36   Link #1981
Jan-Poo
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Anyway, it's time to elaborate a theory about Beatrice's existence.

Spoiler for ep5:
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Old 2009-08-28, 20:44   Link #1982
sword5880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Anyway, it's time to elaborate a theory about Beatrice's existence.

Spoiler for ep5:
Nice, yeah that can also make sense, but as i remember there was also a scene where Shannon was happy when she got the ring from George, did i remember wrong? and if shannon really is first love from six year ago then in the end it will be a fight between Battler and George ^ ^, But
Spoiler for hmm:

Last edited by sword5880; 2009-08-28 at 20:58.
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Old 2009-08-28, 22:39   Link #1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Shannon doesn't love George.
This theory is supported by Shannon's lack of reaction to George's death in episode 5. Her priority was to continue to lie about Kinzo. There definately is something wrong with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Shannon already solved the riddle and found the gold. However that's irrelevant for her, she actually doesn't know what to do with it. She is aware that Krauss would never accept her as new head of the family and certainly neither would Natsuhi or Eva. She can't take away all that gold from the island, so realistically that gold to her has no value.

However I can't find a good reason for her to kill everyone, but it isn't necessary that Beatrice=Killer.
-Shannon and Kanon are the only ones that can "see" Beatrice.
-As shown in episode 1, the servants knew about Beatrice's "roulette" prior to any murders.
-Episode 5 shows that she can play innocent and hide the truth well.

It won't be any kind shock to me to find out she was the murderer or accomplice for some of the twilights.

If she's already found the gold then mabye her plan is to play along with whoever is conducting Beatrice's roulette and finish off the survivors except Battler if he's the one she's in love with.
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Old 2009-08-29, 00:42   Link #1984
ameskitty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
This theory is supported by Shannon's lack of reaction to George's death in episode 5. Her priority was to continue to lie about Kinzo. There definately is something wrong with her.
Spoiler for ep 5:
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Old 2009-08-29, 01:28   Link #1985
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@ Jan-Poo: I like this theory a lot, though I guess I'm a little annoyed with myself because even though I had also concluded that the two weren't in love, I didn't pursue it nearly as heavily as you have - kudos to you. I would argue that if the two aren't in love furthermore, then this strengthens to a significant idea of George being the general mastermind, and I'm starting to create one based off yours which targets George, Shannon, and Genji for now, with possibly Kyrie and Nanjo as independent killers.
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Old 2009-08-29, 02:13   Link #1986
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@ Jan-Poo: What with the beginning of episode 3? "Beatrice" is granddaughter of Kinzo and is seen as such by servants (?) (well, by Kumasawa at least). Of course Shannon with her past in the orphanage isn't a problem and she can be the real granddaughter. In that way she could have even been “recognized” by the adults in the chapel.

However if Shannon's alter ego is Gaap, then she cannot be "Beatrice"...

Edit:

Actually until now my answer to the questions: “Now, who was in Rokkenjima in 1980? who could have loved Battler, who could have made a promise with him? Who could have played with Maria and be part of the mariage sorciere, who could have had Kumasawa as a mentor?” was - Jessica. Because of the hair color and „create your other self” talk. Now I wonder if maybe you are right...

Last edited by Umineko_neko; 2009-08-29 at 06:10.
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Old 2009-08-29, 02:20   Link #1987
Renall
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I think there are people who are killers, people who may become killers but prefer not to be, and people who aren't killers but are doing something.

We don't know who is doing the magic circles and stakings, or dressing as Beatrice. For all we know, these people are completely independent of the killers. Or at least they might be in some episodes and not others. Some people, like Rosa, seem unstable and might be motivated to kill, but generally wouldn't get pushed that far. And there could be someone who is killing with a very methodical and murderous attitude and their actions are in no way related to any of the Beatrice mythos.

Still, looking for a mastermind seems critical. It's got to be one or more people we know. People like George or Kyrie are popular but of course it's hard to say for sure. One thing that's obvious is that the mastermind or masterminds do not have to be killers themselves. For instance, in ep1 we're told that Nanjo/Genji/Kumasawa "did not commit murder." Of course, if someone (let's pick a silly choice like Kumasawa) orchestrated the killings but didn't carry them out, that would probably fit with the red. That would also allow the person to have an alibi that conceals motive. For instance, Kumasawa might be angry about something, but she has Kanon kill; Kanon's motive might not be important vs. the mastermind's motive, but since the mastermind has been hanging out with Battler for multiple killings, they've been previously removed from suspicion (which means no one has focused on their motives).

Of course that's just a silly example. Gohda and Kumasawa surely aren't masterminds... or are they?
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Old 2009-08-29, 02:34   Link #1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Spoiler for ep5:
I think I might have a motive for Shannon killing everyone else, but there's no proof for this one. It's just a guess.

Spoiler for Possible Motive, spoilers for episode 5:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Of course that's just a silly example. Gohda and Kumasawa surely aren't masterminds... or are they?
I'm of the mind that Gohda and Kumasawa had to have been at least related to the murders in Episode 4, because thinking that Kinzo is a magician and that he summoned demons from nowhere is pretty stupid outside of drugs and the like, which is equally stupid. It had to have been consciously fabricated by them. But I digress...

Last edited by AncientSpark; 2009-08-29 at 02:45.
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Old 2009-08-29, 05:50   Link #1989
theacefrehley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Anyway, it's time to elaborate a theory about Beatrice's existence.

Spoiler for ep5:
If I remember, there's an EP where Battler said, nonchalantly, that Shannon was his first love or something like that. If it had so little importance to him, no wonder he forgot completely


But,
I'm still of the opinion that Beatrice represent's something abstract (like law, disaster, grudge, bad blood)

Here are my impressions:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=402
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=403
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=405

I'm pretty much grounded on the theory Rias mentioned about 'everybody against Krauss'.

I don't know... but maybe I'm just trying to link Beatrice with the ideas behind Lambda-delta and Bernkastel.
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Old 2009-08-29, 08:02   Link #1990
Jan-Poo
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Spoiler for episode5:
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Old 2009-08-29, 09:31   Link #1991
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I want to ask something about Asumu.....

Is there anywhere in the game tell that how old is Battler when Asumu died?
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Old 2009-08-29, 09:35   Link #1992
Volcanic
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
I want to ask something about Asumu.....

Is there anywhere in the game tell that how old is Battler when Asumu died?
Twelve Years Old. Six Years Ago.

...I wanna know more about Asumu...
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Old 2009-08-29, 11:38   Link #1993
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Can someone restate what time it was when they heard the knock on the door and found the letter, and when Natsuhi got the call from the mysterious man?
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Old 2009-08-29, 12:14   Link #1994
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well... in theory it was 24:00 o clock. That is highlighted by the fact you can hear the clock's chime.
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Old 2009-08-29, 12:38   Link #1995
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Hmm. Here's my theory. Of course, it most likely contains holes, so take it with a grain of salt.

Spoiler for Just in case:
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Old 2009-08-29, 12:43   Link #1996
milkypink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evy View Post
Spoiler for Just in case:
Spoiler for Not quite:
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Old 2009-08-29, 12:50   Link #1997
Jan-Poo
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Uhm between 24:00 and 1:00 Erika has been in the library with Nanjo, reading an talking about mystery novels. I don't remember if this was actually stated in red, but many others red truths are based on this premise.

But yeah if it wasn't for the Knox rule I'd say Erika is 100% culprit XD

Also about the 8th knox rule, it isn't exactly as the orginal. actually many rules in the game differ from the original thing.

The 8th rule only states that there must not be clues that were never revealed to the detective. The word "reader" in the umineko version of the 10 rules has been abolished.

EDIT for milypink post. Oh yeah lol, at first I was puzzled since I didn't remember that voice actress thing, then I remembered. It is Bern saying that to Lambda not Erika. Because in Lambda's story she is actually the one who makes the phone calls to Natsuhi, and she shows how she can change her voice in any way she desires.
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2009-08-29 at 13:39.
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Old 2009-08-29, 12:55   Link #1998
Evy
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Ahh, thought so. I knew I'd probably not get anywhere with that but I was like "Eh, wouldn't hurt to put this out" xD I haven't played the game because my moonspeak isn't superb, so there are a lot of things I might have gotten wrong because I've only been reading summaries and might be remembering things wrong.

At the very least it shows that it's highly unlikely for Kanon or Shannon to be responsible for the calls.
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Old 2009-08-29, 12:59   Link #1999
Jan-Poo
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we have red truths that confirm the position of practically everyone except those in the guesthouse at that time. So if the phone call was actually done from a person who is on the island it can only be someone in the guesthouse. George is a good candidate, but Gohda too if he can change his voice. Gohda at that time was alone in the servant room of the guesthouse.
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Old 2009-08-29, 13:02   Link #2000
Evy
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The mental image of Gohda speaking in the voice of a young man is, somehow, hilarious. Then again, it's Magical Gohda Chef.
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