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Old 2010-12-21, 18:36   Link #20141
Axilios
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2) It's possible that the killer used some subterfuge with the phone (record Maria singing, and call the study from a different phone), but this just gives the killer more time to get away from the room. Since Shannon's and Gohda's keys are never accounted for, this isn't even a closed room.
This part is interresting, because, remember. When Will questionned Jessica, and they were talking about the prank in the VIP room. Exactly the same thing happened. And this is the conclusion Will reachs, IIRC.
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Old 2010-12-21, 20:34   Link #20142
rogerpepitone
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My point was "How exactly would taping Maria's singing for E1T678 benefit the killer?"

For the prank in E7, it allows them to have Maria's voice on the phone at a time when Maria would be unavailable.

(My mechanism was that the killer
- records Maria's singing.
- takes parlor phone off hook
- locks parlor from outside.
- goes to another room
- starts tape player
- calls study from that other room)

But as far as I can tell, the only benefit to the killer is that it gives the killer more time to get away from the parlor.
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Old 2010-12-21, 21:29   Link #20143
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by Kirroha View Post
By the way, is it really that impossible for Will to be related to Battler? After all, Battler wasn't there in Lion's world, and Will never even found that weird. And in his profile, it said that he used to be merciless in his work, but something happened. It reminds me of the change in Battler between Ep4 and Ep5 to me.
While it's not impossible, I don't see it making any sense. Lion knows who Battler is. Battler wasn't at the 1986 family conference in Lion's world because of other circumstances. Likely, he hadn't made up with Rudolf yet in that world.
Will is supposed to be a complete outsider. His speeches and that latest interview, if it's true, indicate that. Of course, he made himself an involved party when he rescued Lion from Bern, but until that point, he'd only been brought in because Bern was too lazy (or couldn't care enough) to uncover the "whydunnit."
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Old 2010-12-21, 21:31   Link #20144
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
This is due to the anchor necklace he wears.
I don't know if I'm seeing things, but I swear, if you look closely at the anchor, the horizontal part of it is a key.
Just thought I'd float that out there.
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Old 2010-12-21, 21:44   Link #20145
Yopee
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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
My point was "How exactly would taping Maria's singing for E1T678 benefit the killer?"

But as far as I can tell, the only benefit to the killer is that it gives the killer more time to get away from the parlor.
More time to maybe grab a winchester rifle for popping a cap in nappi's forehead later?
This is assuming the rifles aren't located inside Kinzo's study but instead in some place outside of mansion. Hence letter's challenge to meet in entrance hall which killer will most likely make back in time to compared to other places in mansion.
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Old 2010-12-21, 21:49   Link #20146
Vylen
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Originally Posted by Yopee View Post
More time to maybe grab a winchester rifle for popping a cap in nappi's forehead later?
This is assuming the rifles aren't located inside Kinzo's study but instead in some place outside of mansion. Hence letter's challenge to meet in entrance hall which killer will most likely make back in time to compared to other places in mansion.
Even if the rifles are located inside Kinzo's study, the culprit could've waited for them to leave and then sneak into the room. This is in the same fashion as how Eva managed to secretly place that "seal" on the door when Natsuhi left. The singing of Maria would have helped in making them rush to the parlor and let their guard down for the culprit to sneak in before the door closed.
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Old 2010-12-21, 22:09   Link #20147
AuraTwilight
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And of course, the culprit could've had a gun the whole damn time.
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Old 2010-12-21, 22:30   Link #20148
Kealym
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I don't really get the argument behind the recording of Maria's singing. As others have said, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything in particular, and it's not like Maria wasnt singing a song by the parlor's phone reciever when their group arrived. To be honest, before the tape recording was suggested, I assumed that even Maria's phone call during the VIP room prank was just Maria literally sneaking out of bed at 2:00am to help Beatrice with some promised assistance.

Also, having just read through that scene again, I was wondering - has there been any consensus on the cause of the wildly different wounds everyone keeps receiving? Like, the "small hole in the head" versus "head half asploded" versus "stake in the forehead", which they just repeated would be rather difficult, physically?
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Old 2010-12-21, 22:36   Link #20149
Yopee
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
And of course, the culprit could've had a gun the whole damn time.
Yea, culprit could have had a gun the whole time. But no shots were heard until that last tidbit with Natsuhi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
Also, having just read through that scene again, I was wondering - has there been any consensus on the cause of the wildly different wounds everyone keeps receiving? Like, the "small hole in the head" versus "head half asploded" versus "stake in the forehead", which they just repeated would be rather difficult, physically?
The only ones who seemed to have needed to be shot would have been Eva and/or Hideyoshi and Natsuhi because of no wounds other than stakes/hole in forehead. Was Eva and Hideyoshi's guestroom close to the parlour? Because shots would have been heard if that's the case.
So killer could be carrying a gun and not firing it or not having a gun at all assuming all shots would have been heard by somebody not working with killer. Doesn't make too much sense to me if killer wasn't going to fire gun while carrying it aside from threatening people. And Eva might have whooped the killer's ass too if that's the case since she's badass with martial arts and all that.

I'm confusing myself.
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Old 2010-12-21, 22:41   Link #20150
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
Also, having just read through that scene again, I was wondering - has there been any consensus on the cause of the wildly different wounds everyone keeps receiving? Like, the "small hole in the head" versus "head half asploded" versus "stake in the forehead", which they just repeated would be rather difficult, physically?
I've personally been going with the theory that since the only guns we've seen are rifles, the only real gunshot wounds are the "small hole in the head" ones. The "head half asploded" ones are all done by makeup, explaining why multiple people can have them in the exact same place, and the presence of gruesome makeup masks the presence of real rifle wounds.

Stakes in the head are just rammed into existing gunshot wounds, so they don't have to be forced through undamaged bone.
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Old 2010-12-21, 22:48   Link #20151
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
I've personally been going with the theory that since the only guns we've seen are rifles, the only real gunshot wounds are the "small hole in the head" ones. The "head half asploded" ones are all done by makeup, explaining why multiple people can have them in the exact same place, and the presence of gruesome makeup masks the presence of real rifle wounds.

Stakes in the head are just rammed into existing gunshot wounds, so they don't have to be forced through undamaged bone.
Alternatively, whoever does the killing could just be having a lot of fun mutilating the corpses after shooting them. After all, Nanjo did float the fact that the face-ripping in Episode 1's first twilight was done after the dead were killed. If they can do it once, I don't see them having any trouble bringing themselves to do it again.
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Old 2010-12-21, 22:57   Link #20152
Judoh
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Renall's been suspecting for a long time that someone brought a handgun to the island. Mostly because the Winchesters are noisy. And that also happened in And Then There Were None so...
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Old 2010-12-21, 23:14   Link #20153
TehChron
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
I don't really get the argument behind the recording of Maria's singing. As others have said, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything in particular, and it's not like Maria wasnt singing a song by the parlor's phone reciever when their group arrived. To be honest, before the tape recording was suggested, I assumed that even Maria's phone call during the VIP room prank was just Maria literally sneaking out of bed at 2:00am to help Beatrice with some promised assistance.

Also, having just read through that scene again, I was wondering - has there been any consensus on the cause of the wildly different wounds everyone keeps receiving? Like, the "small hole in the head" versus "head half asploded" versus "stake in the forehead", which they just repeated would be rather difficult, physically?
Regarding the first paragraph, I can only speculate that it creates a magnificent alibi for when the murders actually took place. Like the timing with the deaths in the first twilight for Episode 6.
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Old 2010-12-22, 00:12   Link #20154
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Renall's been suspecting for a long time that someone brought a handgun to the island. Mostly because the Winchesters are noisy. And that also happened in And Then There Were None so...
But most of the family went through metal detectors at Niijima, so the list of people who are both suspicious and could have pulled it off is extremely short.
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Old 2010-12-22, 00:17   Link #20155
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Renall's been suspecting for a long time that someone brought a handgun to the island. Mostly because the Winchesters are noisy. And that also happened in And Then There Were None so...
I always figured the noise from the Winchesters could've been confused for thunder from the raging storm that continued quite a while into the first night. Also, with the possiblity that the adults could've killed people while they were in the gold room, I doubt anybody could've heard the gunshots from there.
Afterwards, people spread out and panic, making them less able to notice gunshots and such.
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Old 2010-12-22, 00:46   Link #20156
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But most of the family went through metal detectors at Niijima, so the list of people who are both suspicious and could have pulled it off is extremely short.
Hideyoshi used a bribe and his yakuza connections to get a gun past security. There.
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Old 2010-12-22, 00:56   Link #20157
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Hideyoshi used a bribe and his yakuza connections to get a gun past security. There.
Actually it's easier to think it was Kyrie, since apparently the Sumadera have no problems getting guns on Niijima.
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Old 2010-12-22, 01:30   Link #20158
AuraTwilight
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I know, I'm just demonstrating we're not bound to Kyrie, who is apparently now accepted as "Easy Culprit."
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Old 2010-12-22, 01:38   Link #20159
Kealym
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
I know, I'm just demonstrating we're not bound to Kyrie, who is apparently now accepted as "Easy Culprit."
Outside of EP2, where she was definitely dead upon discovery, I thought Kyrie was ALWAYS people's shorthand for an easy culprit.
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Old 2010-12-22, 01:55   Link #20160
rogerpepitone
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Originally Posted by Yopee View Post
More time to maybe grab a winchester rifle for popping a cap in nappi's forehead later?
This is assuming the rifles aren't located inside Kinzo's study but instead in some place outside of mansion. Hence letter's challenge to meet in entrance hall which killer will most likely make back in time to compared to other places in mansion.
It appears that NGKM left the study at 10:00 PM; their corpses were discovered at 11:30 PM. The phone call was probably at 10:20-10:25. There's no need for any ruse to get a rifle; he just needs to do so before making the call.

And why do people keep ignoring my suggestion that there wasn't a letter in the parlor at all? There's about as much (or, rather, as little) evidence that there was a letter as there is that the guest room chain was set at E1T2 or that the chapel was locked in E2T1.

I also think the scene with the gold in E1 is fake; the padlocked room isn't mentioned anywhere else when it logically should be.
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