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Old 2010-12-28, 20:10   Link #20521
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by TehChron View Post
He spent his time before enlisting in the army with strolling through the rose garden and "drinking unpleasant drinks" or something in addition to reading. Why wouldn't that be referring to alcohol? Maybe not specifically absinthe, but sake or some other liquor is well within the realm of possibility.

And are we really about to get into the discussion about the likelihood of Kinzo's drinking affecting his lifespan? Does that even matter?
Yes because Nanjo made a point on the fact that alcohol is very bad for Kinzo's health, and that's really the only plausible way you can explain why Kinzo is still alive in Lion's world.
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Old 2010-12-28, 20:11   Link #20522
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Unless the reason he is alive in Lion's world is that he wasn't murdered.

I really don't think Kinzo's death scene was legit. I just can't see him going out so peacefully.

Is it possible the red-guts line from Beato3 isn't referring to some injury from the fall?
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Old 2010-12-28, 20:13   Link #20523
TehChron
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Yes because Nanjo made a point on the fact that alcohol is very bad for Kinzo's health, and that's really the only plausible way you can explain why Kinzo is still alive in Lion's world.
Stress and guilt do terrible things to the human body, I would chalk that up to being the cause more than the liquor.

Besides, wouldn't Lion's birth and acceptance into the family give him a reason to give up drinking, rather than continuing to indulge in it? That Lion's existence causes Kinzo to stop drinking doesn't preclude the possibility that he did so heavily before Lion's birth.
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Old 2010-12-28, 20:13   Link #20524
Jan-Poo
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But then you'd have to imagine that Nanjo was the murderer or an accomplice because he said Kinzo was going to die soon back in 1984.

Quote:
Besides, wouldn't Lion's birth and acceptance into the family give him a reason to give up drinking, rather than continuing to indulge in it? That Lion's existence causes Kinzo to stop drinking doesn't preclude the possibility that he did so heavily before Lion's birth.
If you are assuming he was drinking to begin with, why would you assume that he stopped right when Beatrice2 died?
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Old 2010-12-28, 20:14   Link #20525
TehChron
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But then you'd have to imagine that Nanjo was the murderer or an accomplice because he said Kinzo was going to die soon back in 1984.
He never did get that gold bar he was promised...

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If you are assuming he was drinking to begin with, why would you assume that he stopped right when Beatrice2 died?
Im under the assumption he never stopped drinking. You're the one that said he might have in Lion's world, and that's me pointing out a flaw in that reasoning. That he drank something often/heavily before meeting Beatrice is something he stated himself. He never said he stopped.

Absinthe has been part of the characterization since the beginning. And in Episode 2, Battler got into Kinzo's booze stash before going up to the study at Genji's request. That very same Genji then commented on Kinzo's love for drinking.
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Old 2010-12-28, 20:35   Link #20526
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This is another reason I am suspicious that he was murdered. This could also explain why Natsuhi and Krauss were so insistent on hiding the body.
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Old 2010-12-28, 20:41   Link #20527
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Quote:
He never did get that gold bar he was promised...
No, but he was paid the equivalent in hard cash.
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Old 2010-12-28, 20:42   Link #20528
TehChron
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No, but he was paid the equivalent in hard cash.
Gold bars are a man's romance. Yen notes are not a substitute.
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Old 2010-12-28, 21:06   Link #20529
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Nanjo doesn't have the means of converting that gold bar into money, I don't think he minds.
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Old 2010-12-28, 21:21   Link #20530
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Nanjo doesn't have the means of converting that gold bar into money, I don't think he minds.
A man's. Romance.

Has nothing to do with money.
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Old 2010-12-28, 23:00   Link #20531
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Converting small quantities of gold into cash isn't hard if it's one or two bars. Especially because Kinzo allegedly Repressed the gold with his own seals.

Now, massive quantities of gold, that wouldn't be so easy. But one or two bars worth, not a rough task.
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Old 2010-12-28, 23:03   Link #20532
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Well, actually, yes, it is, if you don't want to get into criminal bullshit. Krauss brings it up as a damn arguing point. The gold isn't on the market and lacks a valid government seal and serialization, Kinzo's seal stamp won't mean jack. If Nanjo tries to convert it he could get into international legal trouble.
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Old 2010-12-29, 01:52   Link #20533
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Actually, no, not really. I have most of my savings in gold (got it back at 750ish an oz). I went with Kruggerand's to avoid the risk of unmarked gold, but if you were dealing with anyone who could Assay gold, you could market it.

You get way less if you're going to have to assay it and you're going to do it legitimately, but its still marketable. You would take a huge hit to the price you could command for the gold, but you could sell it.

The siblings would want Krauss's connections for getting the most out of the gold, and for doing large scale, regular transactions, which would be sure to draw attention.

But with the reporting standards of 1986, you would be fine with one or two gold bars. You lose profit from having to have someone test/vouch for the purity, but there are legitimate channels to do this through.

Since the gold is essentially "free" to him, it'd be fine.
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Old 2010-12-29, 02:44   Link #20534
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I still maintain my theory that George is manipulating Shannon into everything and the 2 year gap between the end of Yasu's story and the Epitaph Murders are where he warps her into being a serial murderer(or serial murderer accomplice). Without outside manipulation Yasu simply has no motivation to kill anyone except Battler or perhaps herself out of grief and rage.

I've more or less suspected George ever since Ep 3 though. Him bringing Shannon "Back to life" with the help of "Beatrice" was just too suspicious especially if you factor in Shkanontrice and Personality Death symbolism.
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Old 2010-12-29, 02:50   Link #20535
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I still maintain my theory that George is manipulating Shannon into everything and the 2 year gap between the end of Yasu's story and the Epitaph Murders are where he warps her into being a serial murderer(or serial murderer accomplice). Without outside manipulation Yasu simply has no motivation to kill anyone except Battler or perhaps herself out of grief and rage.
Strongly disagree. Natsuhi threw her off a cliff. The family has raised her as a servant. She's been denied her inheritance as a child of Kinzo, or even the consideration that comes with that. She was constantly berated. She is with George in a body incapable of love. He tells her that he wants kids. She can't have them. Battler returns. This is true whether Yasu is the child of Beatrice and Kinzo or whether Yasu is the child of Rudolf and Asumu.

If you believe what was presented, Kinzo apologized for his incest, etc. If you don't believe that, the possibilities there also get darker.
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Old 2010-12-29, 03:30   Link #20536
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Strongly disagree. Natsuhi threw her off a cliff. The family has raised her as a servant. She's been denied her inheritance as a child of Kinzo, or even the consideration that comes with that. She was constantly berated. She is with George in a body incapable of love. He tells her that he wants kids. She can't have them. Battler returns. This is true whether Yasu is the child of Beatrice and Kinzo or whether Yasu is the child of Rudolf and Asumu.
In order, she doesn't know that, it's not their fault, she doesn't care, that's petty even by these standards, she loves George, we don't know for sure that she can't have kids.
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Old 2010-12-29, 06:43   Link #20537
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So it is time for us to post the final version of hypothesis?

Spoiler for Block of text:


Prediction for EP8's content:

-Amakusa is Battler, so only Battler returned

-Focus is on Battler's family, the tragedy is prevented by Rudolf revealing Battler's birth

-Okonogi's ass kicked hard
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Old 2010-12-29, 09:28   Link #20538
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Again, keep in mind that:
  • We don't know there was any baby (Beatrice-2 makes absolutely no mention of it to Rosa at a time when she should have recently given birth).
  • We don't know if it was really given to Natsuhi (Kinzo's behavior in that scene is odd and there is the red that he never trusted her).
  • We don't know that she really threw it off a cliff even if she did reject it (inconsistent testimony from Natsuhi).
  • If the baby existed and did fall, there is no evidence that it survived (and Natsuhi asserts it couldn't have, but admittedly what does she know).
  • There is absolutely nothing which identifies who the baby would be other than the word of Genji and Nanjo (both repeated liars and grossly unreliable). If the baby existed and even if it survived, neither Yasu nor Lion have any way of knowing they really are that child other than being told they are.
Given what has been said about furniture, I wonder why Yasu would get such a complex over a genuine accident.

I mean... furniture is like a character of sorts, either a role played or an imagined construct. Yasu was well aware of this as it was basically her idea in the first place. Logically, if she starts thinking of herself as "furniture" it means she believes she's nothing more than an actor-in-role or a fictional construct. I'll assume she didn't suddenly become aware that she was in a book, which leaves me with the idea that she realized she was actually "playing a role."

Well, what role can she be playing? The role of a servant? That wouldn't give her a furniture complex, she's already been doing that for a while and doesn't seem to mind it. The role of the family head? She seems competent enough at that and just wants to keep it quiet and let Krauss have it officially.

But you know what would make me feel like she does, in her situation? Finding out I'm just being used because it's convenient to Genji (and/or Nanjo/Kumasawa). Having my insecurities soothed by people I trust assuring me that I'm somebody special when I'm actually just being built up to make somebody else feel better or get somebody some money. That I convinced myself I'd have to give up on two consecutive romances because I thought I was related to them.

You want a motive to go psycho, there's one.
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Old 2010-12-29, 09:37   Link #20539
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Can I still insist you summarise your predictions? I would be somewhat disappointed if you don't, Renall... :-/
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Old 2010-12-29, 09:42   Link #20540
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Eh there's nothing that substantial to it. Author Theory, Fictional Shkanon Only, Battler's alive, etc. I don't have some blueprint of where I think ep8 will go, other than guessing there will be a lot of Ange since it parallels ep4.

I have no comprehensive theories about the murders within the games because I really don't care about them and I don't think figuring out exactly how everything went down is really the most thematically important thing. Will's answers, even the non-answers, are good enough for me.
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This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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