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Old 2011-01-01, 22:33   Link #21081
AuraTwilight
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The better idea is that the truth of what happened has nothing to do with the mysteries, since they're supposed to be a game between Yasu and Battler. The First Twilight is almost always faked, with the implication that before someone fips out and kills everyone, Yasu is planning a harmless "mystery play" for everyone.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:36   Link #21082
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It's obvious it's fake if Kyrie and Rudolf are the culprits the thing is they got out of the locked shed ?? They got out of the window or one of the servant is one of their accomplices to open the shed ?
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:40   Link #21083
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I don't think they are the "key" for the mysteries. They may be the real culprits, but the mysteries seems to be about "who Beatrice is" not about "who the real world culprit is," and thus, the key you ought to be using is a different one.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:41   Link #21084
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Since the general opinion is that Yasu was unaware anything bad would happen, where are the first two message bottles coming from? Them being released by Yasu before the incident is nonsensical.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:45   Link #21085
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Seems your right there Used can .. I'll play Ep8 for now I'll check some new things
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:45   Link #21086
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It's obvious it's fake if Kyrie and Rudolf are the culprits the thing is they got out of the locked shed ?? They got out of the window or one of the servant is one of their accomplices to open the shed ?
I'm not saying Kyrie and Rudolf are the culprits of EPs 1-6. Infact, I guarantee they're not.

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Since the general opinion is that Yasu was unaware anything bad would happen, where are the first two message bottles coming from? Them being released by Yasu before the incident is nonsensical.
No it's not. She writes two of them, and tosses them out, betting on a miracle and hoping they're found, telling Battler, "Remember me. Come back to me."
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:46   Link #21087
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It wasn't so much that I said it wasn't a mystery as I feared it wasn't and hoped it would all turn out for the best.

I'm not sure it's bad, but it certainly doesn't meet the expectations of a great many people.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:54   Link #21088
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
No it's not. She writes two of them, and tosses them out, betting on a miracle and hoping they're found, telling Battler, "Remember me. Come back to me."
Was there any mention it was done before the event happened or just conjecture?
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Old 2011-01-01, 23:02   Link #21089
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"Remember me. Come back to me."
Hmm... is that so? I mean, 1986, if my interpretation is right, is the year Yasu would decide either living as Shannon or as Kanon - thus the "had Battler returned one year earlier, or one year later, this tragedy wouldn't have taken place". So, if she had decided to live by one of those roles, why would she have left these letters for Battler?
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Old 2011-01-02, 00:02   Link #21090
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Was there any mention it was done before the event happened or just conjecture?
It's conjecture, but it generally makes the most sense if it's before, since Yasu doesn't live past the incident and her handwriting matches the "Beatrice" entries in Maria's diary.

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Hmm... is that so? I mean, 1986, if my interpretation is right, is the year Yasu would decide either living as Shannon or as Kanon - thus the "had Battler returned one year earlier, or one year later, this tragedy wouldn't have taken place". So, if she had decided to live by one of those roles, why would she have left these letters for Battler?
She loved Battler more, duh.
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Old 2011-01-02, 00:19   Link #21091
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That doesn't really answer much, I think. To begin with, had things gone her way, and Battler solved the "mystery" she had created for him in Rokkenjima, then she'd have got Battler, and she'd have been happy. Had Battler been unable to solve her "mystery" and George or Jessica won the "love duel" then the letters in the bottle wouldn't have served any purpose either because the people on Rokkenjima would have remained alive, and the bottle letters would have, quite likely, received little to no attention. Not to mention that if she was abiding by the rules of her own roulette, why try to have these letters reach Battler? If she wants Battler that much she could as well not have followed this roulette at all and just be direct with him.
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Old 2011-01-02, 01:26   Link #21092
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You're totally not getting it. The Love Duel only comes up because Battler returns at all, otherwise George's victory is a foregone certainty.

The message was to go out, apparently, to get Battler back. If he doesn't come out, fine. Roulette. If he does, then fuck George.

Whether or not the characters involved in the message bottles actually died or not isn't relevant, they're fictional stories anyway.

You're right, they wouldn't of gotten much attention otherwise, but Yasu has a habit of betting on miracles that won't be granted save for a probability of a quadrillion to one.
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Old 2011-01-02, 01:42   Link #21093
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
You're totally not getting it. The Love Duel only comes up because Battler returns at all, otherwise George's victory is a foregone certainty.

The message was to go out, apparently, to get Battler back. If he doesn't come out, fine. Roulette. If he does, then fuck George.

Whether or not the characters involved in the message bottles actually died or not isn't relevant, they're fictional stories anyway.

You're right, they wouldn't of gotten much attention otherwise, but Yasu has a habit of betting on miracles that won't be granted save for a probability of a quadrillion to one.
This is just my opinion, but just because other people think differently, or have questions about what's going on, doesn't mean you should be rude to them. I've been lurking, and was enjoying it, but you're condescending attitude kinda is ruining it.

Other people are going to think differently then you, or may be slower at arriving to the same conclusions you've reached.
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Old 2011-01-02, 01:44   Link #21094
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You're totally not getting it. The Love Duel only comes up because Battler returns at all, otherwise George's victory is a foregone certainty.
Are you sure? Although I can agree on George's victory being almost certain had Battler not shown up, I'm sure Jessica was still on it, and that the Love Duel would have had taken place even if Battler didn't show up. In fact, I'd say the Love Duel didn't even start on 1986, but it started even before. I think I remember Yasu saying something like by 1986 the winner of the duel was almost clear (this would be George, I believe); so, I don't think I'm that off. If we can take the Meta World as any indication, the Love Duel started with Shannon, George, Kanon and Jessica. Beato and Battler didn't join until later. So, if I'm interpreting it right, this may also show the state of affairs in the gameboard (or the real world as well).

Not only that, but Yasu even said Battler showing up on 1986 was unexpected, and that was what threw her original plan in disarray. So, if she was already ready to move on by 1986, why write these letters? It'd seem she wasn't really willing to follow her roulette. That, or the letters may have had other purpose.

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The message was to go out, apparently, to get Battler back. If he doesn't come out, fine. Roulette. If he does, then fuck George.
That makes little to no sense, I think. Yasu let those bottle letters, as far as I seem to recall, few days before the 1986's conference, right? So, if she was already ready to move on, then sending these letters to bring Battler back make no sense, in my opinion.

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You're right, they wouldn't of gotten much attention otherwise, but Yasu has a habit of betting on miracles that won't be granted save for a probability of a quadrillion to one.
I don't think this would be even a bet, seriously. I don't think Battler lives anywhere by Nijima, and that's where, I'm sure, Yasu would have expected these letters to end up at. So, if no real incident happened, whoever found these letters - assuming anyone did - would have probably just discarded them.

In addition, if we take into account her plan in Rokkenjima, she did several things to try to achieve her miracle. It wasn't merely just leaving things up to themselves. If theories are correct, she had indeed come up with a full plan. So, even if she bets, she does have a plan. The letters do not seem to follow this way of working, if you ask me.
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Old 2011-01-02, 02:24   Link #21095
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This is just my opinion, but just because other people think differently, or have questions about what's going on, doesn't mean you should be rude to them. I've been lurking, and was enjoying it, but you're condescending attitude kinda is ruining it.

Other people are going to think differently then you, or may be slower at arriving to the same conclusions you've reached.
I'm not being condescending or rude; I'm telling him he's not understanding what I'm saying and thus elaborating on what I mean. That happens when someone asks questions that aren't fully connected to the point the other person is making.

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Are you sure? Although I can agree on George's victory being almost certain had Battler not shown up, I'm sure Jessica was still on it, and that the Love Duel would have had taken place even if Battler didn't show up. In fact, I'd say the Love Duel didn't even start on 1986, but it started even before. I think I remember Yasu saying something like by 1986 the winner of the duel was almost clear (this would be George, I believe); so, I don't think I'm that off. If we can take the Meta World as any indication, the Love Duel started with Shannon, George, Kanon and Jessica. Beato and Battler didn't join until later. So, if I'm interpreting it right, this may also show the state of affairs in the gameboard (or the real world as well).

Not only that, but Yasu even said Battler showing up on 1986 was unexpected, and that was what threw her original plan in disarray. So, if she was already ready to move on by 1986, why write these letters? It'd seem she wasn't really willing to follow her roulette. That, or the letters may have had other purpose.
You're right, I should be clear; if it were just George or Jessica, it'd be pretty much guaranteed to be George, so nothing outrageous would happen. But because of Battler, we have his status as her true love versus George's proposal, so shit gets out of hand.

And of course she wasn't willing to move on. Yasu was "willing to settle" but a part of her always loved Battler more. In an "ideal" scenario where Battler didn't return to the island, she would've settled for pining for Battler secretly forever while living with George. Yasu's kind of emotionally unbalanced and a bit out of her mind, and her fatalist attitude means she just sort of puts up with whatever the dice land on regardless of her personal feelings.

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That makes little to no sense, I think. Yasu let those bottle letters, as far as I seem to recall, few days before the 1986's conference, right? So, if she was already ready to move on, then sending these letters to bring Battler back make no sense, in my opinion.
You're misunderstanding. "Willing to settle" is not the same as "Willing to move on." On top of that, George didn't propose until the very night of the conference, so there was still hope for Battler to come and get her like a Prince, as he promised. She was holding out as much as she could.

Quote:
I don't think this would be even a bet, seriously. I don't think Battler lives anywhere by Nijima, and that's where, I'm sure, Yasu would have expected these letters to end up at. So, if no real incident happened, whoever found these letters - assuming anyone did - would have probably just discarded them.
It's the goddamn ocean. It could end up in Nijima, it could end up in China, it could just sink to the bottom of the ocean. The very fact that bottles were used as a method of delivering the messages is proof of betting on an improbable, almost-impossible chance.

And for all we know, the message bottles were sent out more than a week before the conference, meaning that the fact that they were found AFTER the incident was a horrible stroke of bad luck.

If no accident happened, it's more likely that they'd have been reported to the police. "So um...hey, Police Department? I found these messages about someone writing about the mass murders of that Ushiromiya family...it seems sort of like a warning or a threat..."

Quote:
In addition, if we take into account her plan in Rokkenjima, she did several things to try to achieve her miracle. It wasn't merely just leaving things up to themselves. If theories are correct, she had indeed come up with a full plan. So, even if she bets, she does have a plan. The letters do not seem to follow this way of working, if you ask me.
The fact that she has this Love Duel thing makes it pretty clear she has more that one plan. Else she would've never involved Jessica in this mess. "If Battler comes to the island, Murder Mystery Play. If he doesn't, send him messages containing a Murder Mystery Play."

And since she doesn't know his address...well...bottles.
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Old 2011-01-02, 02:52   Link #21096
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'Battler is the culprit' theory

This is my guess.

Spoiler for EP8:
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Old 2011-01-02, 03:21   Link #21097
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This is my guess.

Spoiler for EP8:
I love this one :|

EDIT:
Okay, wait. Battler's motive?
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Old 2011-01-02, 03:29   Link #21098
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This is my guess.

Spoiler for EP8:
You're wrong.
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Old 2011-01-02, 03:30   Link #21099
Renall
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We've evolved beyond "motives." You just need HEART.
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Old 2011-01-02, 03:32   Link #21100
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We've evolved beyond "motives." You just need HEART.
And by your powers combined, I am-no wait, Deitiy666 already did that joke.
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