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Old 2011-01-16, 18:37   Link #21521
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
I really have no trouble believing that George "Kill Everyone For Our Love" Ushiromiya would go to such lengths to make sure he has Shannon all to himself. And it's not like that scene is terribly descriptive; for all we know George had his back to Shannon at some point, or at least some opportunity to pull some sleight of hand. He was moving around from person to person passing them out, after all.
The point is Shannon was still watching the entire time. She was so anxious I can't imagine her not. And where would he put it if not in his coat pockets?

I don't see why people think it's so unbelievable that Battler just forgot to write her a letter. The only people who received letters were his cousins. It's not like he wrote a letter for every single person on Rokkenjima and just happened to forget about Shannon.
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Old 2011-01-16, 18:49   Link #21522
Mcjon01
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Oh, I don't think it's unbelievable that Battler forgot or didn't care to write a letter. I just also don't think it's unbelievable that George would be a dick about it if he did write a letter.

And I really don't think Shannon was watching the letters like a hawk or anything. Why would she? She had no reason to think that George wouldn't just give it to her (if it existed).
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Old 2011-01-16, 18:50   Link #21523
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
I don't see why people think it's so unbelievable that Battler just forgot to write her a letter. The only people who received letters were his cousins. It's not like he wrote a letter for every single person on Rokkenjima and just happened to forget about Shannon.
I don't think it's that people don't beleive he forgot. It's that George is consistent in implying that he wants everyone (mostly Shannon) to beleive that Battler will never come back through most of these pre-1986 events. And he even says that his letter says that. Nobody made George do that. So they think it's implied he prevented her from seeing hers so he could lie about what Battler said.

But then I didn't understand much of the basis of the theory either when I read it. And I agree. It's enough for Kyrie to pester Battler to write letters to his cousins, and then not remember because Shannon isn't one of the people Kyrie was talking about when she told him to.

And even then if there's no letter for Shannon he could simply lie about what his letter says and it would be the same kind of thing.

Last edited by Judoh; 2011-01-16 at 19:09.
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Old 2011-01-16, 19:43   Link #21524
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
Here is my problem with the "George hiding the letter" theory.

Shannon was watching the entire time he was handing out the letters. There is no way she would have missed George taking two letters and stuffing it into his pocket and no way she wouldn't have been suspicious. The only one who could have taken it was the person who had the envelope before Shannon ever saw it, which was Kyrie. Kyrie has no reason to take the letter because she doesn't even care about Battler and what he does with his life.

Second of all, allow me to refer you to this quote. One Battler said in EP 3 maybe ten minutes after Shannon repeated the '< See you again>' line.
George removed the letter before Shannon started looking. Or Shannon's viewpoint doesn't mean shit because she's not the Detective.

Quote:
I don't see why people think it's so unbelievable that Battler just forgot to write her a letter. The only people who received letters were his cousins. It's not like he wrote a letter for every single person on Rokkenjima and just happened to forget about Shannon.
Battler goes on and on about he, the cousins, and Shannon were inseparable as kids. She's certainly more deserving of a letter than Maria, who doesn't even recall who he is.
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Old 2011-01-16, 20:14   Link #21525
Kylon99
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In addition, I think someone said here that it was suspicious how George just handed the empty envelope to Shannon. He didn't say, "Please throw this away for me," he handed it to her to show it was empty. If you were nonchalantly digging out letters, it's not a natural reaction to hand over an empty envelope.

Essentially it's like saying, "See? It's empty. This constitutes proof that he forgot you."

We could be reading too much into this, but then, these still may be clues. The kind of clues where there's a hole for a culprit to do something and for us to go... "Well maybe, but it's not overt, so it can't be..."

In addition, if George was really sensitive to other people (or sensitive to Shannon, specifically), like the first few episodes portray, then he would have remembered that Shannon and Battler used to play together. By acting as if he 'forgot' or was 'unaware' of Shannon's feelings he is at odds with how he was portrayed earlier and later, (like in the EP7 Tea Party where he directly says he remembers Battler and Shannon and that they were often together, so that made him jealous.) So, whenever he acts like, "Oh, I didn't know...." then we should probably take it to mean that he very, very much does know, and is lying for some reason.

Ok, guys... get the rope. I think we've got enough for a hangin' tonight. 8)

Last edited by Kylon99; 2011-01-16 at 20:43.
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Old 2011-01-16, 20:59   Link #21526
Ayu-ayu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
My version is way funnier.
Well, like I said earlier, Rokkenjimas Prime is a dormant Transformer.

Shkannontrice is just a manifestation of his Spark while unconscious. He forms from combining the the chapel, mansion, Toraian, Kuwadorian, the sunken submarine, and the ten tons of gold (actually Energon cubes). When he awakens, he recombines into a single 'bot, crushing everyone, and flies off back to Cybertron (the Golden Land) in his guilt, taking most of what is left of the bodies with him accidentally and leaving behind the giant mysterious crater in his wake.

Kinzo is also actually secretly a Pretender clone of Unicron, and should sound like Orson Welles if speaking in English.

The lion statues around the chapel on the other hand are clearly Voltron. Obviously.
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Old 2011-01-16, 21:10   Link #21527
Jan-Poo
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I argue that Rokkenjima due to its name must be necessarily a gestalt transformer.
That or one of those rare 6mode transformers like Sixshots.
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Old 2011-01-16, 22:38   Link #21528
Keriaku
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
The point is Shannon was still watching the entire time. She was so anxious I can't imagine her not. And where would he put it if not in his coat pockets?

I don't see why people think it's so unbelievable that Battler just forgot to write her a letter. The only people who received letters were his cousins. It's not like he wrote a letter for every single person on Rokkenjima and just happened to forget about Shannon.
I feel like just the fact we are thinking about this situation and might never actually know what happened, is exactly the kind of feeling Yasu had when she didn't know if Battler was thinking about him/her. And think about us who are thinking about these two interpretive layers on what happened. That's a new, 3rd layer that is equal to the 2 previous in depth.
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Old 2011-01-16, 23:37   Link #21529
CrystalStarlight95
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Wow, the whole island is a Transformer? ALRIGHT, let's roll out, Rokkenjimus Prime! *runs*
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Old 2011-01-17, 00:20   Link #21530
Keriaku
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Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
In addition, I think someone said here that it was suspicious how George just handed the empty envelope to Shannon. He didn't say, "Please throw this away for me," he handed it to her to show it was empty. If you were nonchalantly digging out letters, it's not a natural reaction to hand over an empty envelope.

Essentially it's like saying, "See? It's empty. This constitutes proof that he forgot you."

We could be reading too much into this, but then, these still may be clues. The kind of clues where there's a hole for a culprit to do something and for us to go... "Well maybe, but it's not overt, so it can't be..."

In addition, if George was really sensitive to other people (or sensitive to Shannon, specifically), like the first few episodes portray, then he would have remembered that Shannon and Battler used to play together. By acting as if he 'forgot' or was 'unaware' of Shannon's feelings he is at odds with how he was portrayed earlier and later, (like in the EP7 Tea Party where he directly says he remembers Battler and Shannon and that they were often together, so that made him jealous.) So, whenever he acts like, "Oh, I didn't know...." then we should probably take it to mean that he very, very much does know, and is lying for some reason.

Ok, guys... get the rope. I think we've got enough for a hangin' tonight. 8)
Yeah, the two times I read the scene where the envelopes are being handed out, I always noticed how there was one phrase that seemed to be slightly out of place, like it was very obviously an indicator of some kind of interpretive idea being shown from the narrative. Something like, "George naturally hands over the empty envelope to be thrown out".
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Old 2011-01-17, 22:16   Link #21531
Ayu-ayu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I argue that Rokkenjima due to its name must be necessarily a gestalt transformer.
That or one of those rare 6mode transformers like Sixshots.
Yeah, that's what I meant--all the forms of Beatrice are actually the separate personalities before they get the "urge to merge".

Gattai!
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Old 2011-01-18, 03:03   Link #21532
unsuspectingvisitor
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hello guys
i have a question but i know that many people already ask this but still
what is the real story behind the mass murder on Rokkenjima?
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Old 2011-01-18, 04:07   Link #21533
Luxuria
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Question here

What's the mirror in the shrine in EP 2 for? What about Natsuhi's? Where they ever explained?
Or it's just that I'm too pro-fantasy? ; __ ;
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Old 2011-01-18, 04:52   Link #21534
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Luxuria View Post
Question here

What's the mirror in the shrine in EP 2 for? What about Natsuhi's? Where they ever explained?
Or it's just that I'm too pro-fantasy? ; __ ;
One answer is that Beato/Yasu hates mirrors because they show her the reality of how Shabby a person she really is. This is in her own words. She hates looking in mirrors because it shows her the reality of who/what she is. The ghost stories about Akujikishima also were mixed in with it, and that's one reason she picked up the idea of mirrors and spider webs being her weakness.

The use of mirrors as a metaphor in the story over and over was just over used IMHO. It doesn't need a complicated explanation.
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Old 2011-01-18, 04:55   Link #21535
Used Can
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
what is the real story behind the mass murder on Rokkenjima?
Hello

This is the story behind Rokkenjima Prime. R07 just confirmed it some days ago in an interview.
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Old 2011-01-18, 05:03   Link #21536
Kaisos Erranon
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You know, I'm sure this had been brought up before, but I got to thinking lately, and the only conclusion I can really come to about Umineko, after everything's said and done is that the the true culprit of the Rokkenjima Incident is Kinzo.

After all, wasn't he the one that made all of this possible in the first place?
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Old 2011-01-18, 05:20   Link #21537
Used Can
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I'm going to one-up you and say that this was brought by the Ushiromiya family on their descendants by being so strict and having Kinzo end up that way.

Yasu is the backlash of their wrongdoings.
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Old 2011-01-18, 05:36   Link #21538
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Adam and Eve ate the apple.
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Old 2011-01-18, 05:49   Link #21539
unsuspectingvisitor
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Hello

This is the story behind Rokkenjima Prime. R07 just confirmed it some days ago in an interview.
i don't know about that.
i have a feeling that you making fun of me.by showing me that

anyway,i just finish the ep7 of the game.is the ?????tea party shows what happened in rokkenjima?

@Kaisos Erranon the gold is the culprit,human can become greedy when it comes to gold.

remember the story kinzo told in ep7? there's a italian and japanese soldiers fighting each other because of the gold.
i think the whole thing just repeat itself.
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Old 2011-01-18, 05:52   Link #21540
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
I'm going to one-up you and say that this was brought by the Ushiromiya family on their descendants by being so strict and having Kinzo end up that way.
Not exactly, it was entirely Kinzo's choice to murder everyone in the military base, kidnap Beatrice, and steal the gold.

To gain two, sacrifice one, remember?

Kinzo and his stolen gold made everything possible, and that's why he's to blame for all this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
there's a italian and japanese soldiers fighting each other because of the gold.
Actually I think the real story is that Kinzo caused the conflict and shot anyone who got in his way.

The man was forty years old at the time and an excellent marksman. There's no way he acted in the manner that he presented himself in the story.
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