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Old 2011-03-11, 19:22   Link #22321
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Someone remake Umineko into a "Greatest Heist" movie.
You brought this on yourself.
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-03-11, 19:38   Link #22322
AuraTwilight
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Dammit, Renall, I love you.
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Old 2011-03-11, 20:50   Link #22323
Chron
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Dammit, Renall, I love you.
I second that emotion, and supplement it with a "no homo"
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Old 2011-03-11, 22:28   Link #22324
AuraTwilight
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I'd say no homo since my feelings for Renall are platonic, but I don't think homos can say "no homo."
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Old 2011-03-11, 22:29   Link #22325
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It seems out of place, but please, anyone has updated from the guy himself after the earthquake? Chiba is influenced by it, right? I wonder whether Ryukishi is still safe and sound...
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Old 2011-03-11, 22:38   Link #22326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn View Post
It seems out of place, but please, anyone has updated from the guy himself after the earthquake? Chiba is influenced by it, right? I wonder whether Ryukishi is still safe and sound...
http://07th-expansion.net/Cgi/clip/clip.cgi
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Old 2011-03-11, 22:43   Link #22327
Renall
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Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn View Post
It seems out of place, but please, anyone has updated from the guy himself after the earthquake? Chiba is influenced by it, right? I wonder whether Ryukishi is still safe and sound...
Well, at least he wouldn't be pulling a Robert Jordan on us. Then again...

By the way, answer key:
Spoiler:
Kinzo's Eighteen would be pretty good for an Umineko heist title. Then again, so would The Italian Job.
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Old 2011-03-13, 14:08   Link #22328
LyricalAura
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Yoink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluemail View Post
And Rosa died after Maria, if it means anything. And actually... They weren't finally killed by Eva-Beatrice at all, it was Beatrice herself who gave them "a rest they wouldn't need to wake from". Were Shannon and Kanon confirmed as dead before this? I remember the declaration happening early, but it might have been during Nanjo's case.
An interesting interpretation of it would be that Yasu stumbled across the bodies and observed that they were dead, preventing further fantasy shenanigans.
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Old 2011-03-13, 15:20   Link #22329
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Or if she found that Eva hadn't finished the job properly, and decided to put them out of their pain.
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Old 2011-03-16, 23:59   Link #22330
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Or Rosa accidentally impaled herself on the fence (due to drug induced hallucinations of flying) and Maria was killed because she was a witness.
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Old 2011-03-17, 04:02   Link #22331
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Who the hell kills witnesses to complete fucking accidents?
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Old 2011-03-17, 07:29   Link #22332
immblueversion
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Or Rosa accidentally impaled herself on the fence (due to drug induced hallucinations of flying) and Maria was killed because she was a witness.
Isn't the use of unknown drugs forbidden by Knox's 4th? Unless you can actually specify the drug and verify that they were on the island in the first place.
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Old 2011-03-17, 08:10   Link #22333
Thanatos of Crows
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The unknown drugs refer to drugs the reader has no knolewdge of, meaning no fictional drugs allowed.
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Old 2011-03-17, 08:11   Link #22334
Renall
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Who the hell kills witnesses to complete fucking accidents?
Too embarassed to live?
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Old 2011-03-17, 09:46   Link #22335
neutrino
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Who the hell kills witnesses to complete fucking accidents?
It wouldn't be a complete accident if the drugs had been administered against her will, either to make her forget about finding the gold or to have her kill herself. In the first case, Maria would have been killed because she would eventually reveal who "Eva-Beatrice" was, in the second "Beatrice" strangled her to give a more merciful death that dying amid terrifying hallucinations.

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Isn't the use of unknown drugs forbidden by Knox's 4th? Unless you can actually specify the drug and verify that they were on the island in the first place.
Like Thanatos of Crows says, that means no fictional drugs (like the one Battler came up with that turned Kinzo into vapor), but I can do that. The drug I'm thinking of is scopolamine. Like the article says, it's the principle active ingredient in witches' "flying potions", giving the sensation of flying and real seeming hallucinations. Remember how Eva-Beatrice first sent herself and Rosa flying? Kinzo's grimoires (probably in the ones reported missing) would almost certainly have a couple of recipes for making it out of plants like henbane, jimson weed, and Angel's Trumpet (in the Seven Sisters Valentine, "the demonsí special recipe calls for it [chocolate] to be decorated with the seed of a devilís trumpet and the blossom of an angelís trumpet.") Because of scopolamine and other compounds, ingestion of datura plants like angel's trumpet can cause a complete inability to distinguish reality from fantasy.

Scopolamine is also associated with "zombie drugs", which I used for a theory on how the Ushiromiyas could still be alive in 1998.
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Old 2011-03-17, 10:12   Link #22336
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Rosa and Maria were killed by other people


Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino View Post
It wouldn't be a complete accident if the drugs had been administered against her will, either to make her forget about finding the gold or to have her kill herself. In the first case, Maria would have been killed because she would eventually reveal who "Eva-Beatrice" was, in the second "Beatrice" strangled her to give a more merciful death that dying amid terrifying hallucinations.
"your honor my client only intended to get the victim high as a kite even though she didn't want to she didn't mean to kill her"

See if that works in court. It's either intentional or it's not. There's no such thing as a partial accident.

Quote:
Like Thanatos of Crows says, that means no fictional drugs (like the one Battler came up with that turned Kinzo into vapor), but I can do that. The drug I'm thinking of is scopolamine.*snip*.
That's nice and all, but the point is there's really no evidence that this was ever used or that it exists on the island and the reader wouldn't have knowledge of this drug if it wasn't mentioned in the story. Also you can explain this just as well with Eva either killing her and then Killing Maria or it simply just being an accident. Try practicing Occam's Razor.

Last edited by Judoh; 2011-03-17 at 10:39.
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Old 2011-03-17, 10:59   Link #22337
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
"your honor my client only intended to get the victim high as a kite even though she didn't want to she didn't mean to kill her"
Depends whether you intended to cause grievous bodily harm or not. If not, it could be some high degree of aggravated manslaughter... maybe?

Quote:
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Also you can explain this just as well with Eva either killing her and then Killing Maria or it simply just being an accident. Try practicing Occam's Razor.
Eh, bringing Yasu in means the fantasy scene makes more sense.
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Old 2011-03-17, 11:12   Link #22338
Renall
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Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Eh, bringing Yasu in means the fantasy scene makes more sense.
Except the story goes to rather remarkable lengths to distinguish Eva-Beatrice from Beatrice, and the MO of the killings in ep3 is so unlike the ones attributed to Beatrice.
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This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2011-03-17, 11:45   Link #22339
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Except the story goes to rather remarkable lengths to distinguish Eva-Beatrice from Beatrice, and the MO of the killings in ep3 is so unlike the ones attributed to Beatrice.
I agree, which I why I feel Yasu may have put Rosa and/ or Maria out of their pain after Eva left one or both of them seriously injured (thinking that they were dead).

I suppose the problem with using this logic is that Eva-Beatrice is shown killing Nanjo, and it's pretty clear that Eva didn't do that one. Same with George.
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Old 2011-03-17, 12:03   Link #22340
Renall
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The thing is, Rosa's injury is almost certainly instantly fatal. In fact, Ryukishi goes to great pains to explain it in such a fashion that it's almost assuredly so. So I would be inclined to believe she died from that, so there'd be little reason to kill her after the fact (as she's almost certainly dead the minute someone finds her who isn't the person who killed her).

Maria's death, on the other hand, cannot possibly have been a mercy kill, unless some injury to her simply wasn't described. You don't get strangled gracefully.

I still think the evidence points heavily to a crime of passion in which Rosa was accidentally killed and Maria strangled in a fit of temporary insanity, whether it was Eva who did it or someone else.
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