AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Retired M-Z > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-09-27, 19:01   Link #2281
Goldsmith
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Does anyone know what the bar they added to the poll means?
Goldsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 00:30   Link #2282
Golden Witch Drugs
しゆあげいん。
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rokkenjima stage
... *Happily votes for Eva-Beato*
Golden Witch Drugs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 00:31   Link #2283
Golden Witch Drugs
しゆあげいん。
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rokkenjima stage
And also, how the hell did Erika get on sixth place?! _
Golden Witch Drugs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 05:10   Link #2284
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
After reading through episode 4 again Kanon has become my number one most suspicious person.

Regarding his death:
-His corpse has never been found by the detective.

-In episode 2 when Beatrice was in Jessica’s room she said, “Kanon was killed in this room”. This could have happened during the events of episode 2 or it could have happened years before. No exact time is specified.

-It is confirmed in episodes 2, 3, and 4 that Kanon is dead. Again, no time is specified.

-Beatrice said, “Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die. In short, he was the 9th victim”. She gave this detailed red text because Battler was not able to locate Kanon’s corpse and began to suspect that Kanon was the culprit. Beatrice guaranteed his death in red to eliminate that line of thought. The strange part is that this was not said to meta-Battler but instead Beatrice was trying to whisper it to piece Battler. Beatrice knew it wouldn’t reach piece Battler’s ears. A red line in the game where one character says it and no one hears it is like Ryukishi giving a clue directly to the reader. So this can be interpreted a few ways including:
Possibility 1) He was the ninth person to die on Rokkenjima on October 4, 1986.
Possibility 2) Out of a five person group that included Kyrie, “Kanon” was the first one to die but that event occurred sometime in the past. There were eight other victims before him.

Regarding his appearance:
-Beatrice also said, “They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon”. “They” meant Shannon, Gohda, and Genji. Battler then responded with, “Then, just like the heredity of Kinzo's name, there is a possibility that Kanon's name was inherited by someone. You could suppose that Kanon-kun was killed, a different person succeeded that name, and that this person attacked them”. Beatrice didn’t even try to respond to that.

Regarding his name:
Lamdadelta said, “The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself. A different person cannot claim his name”. She said it to Bernkastel while making fun of Battler’s attempt to explain how the murders were done. It’s likely a red line that Lambda would have used if she would have been in Beatrice’s place. However, this red line could have been deceptively worded for the purpose of tricking Battler and can be interpreted a few ways including:
Possibility 1) No one else can use the name Kanon.
Possibility 2) His real name is not known and his real name cannot be claimed by anyone else. However, the name “Kanon” can be used by others or could have been used by someone in the past.

Given all this you can almost make the theory: the person who is using the name Kanon has never died on the game board. A person named Kanon died sometime in the past.

Here is what prevents that theory from episode 2 said by Beatrice to Battler:
No one exists in this room except all of you. All of you refers to Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, and Shannon
When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room
Jessica is also included
Therefore, both in the case of Jessica's room and the case in this servants' room, no humans exist that are you were not aware of


A possible way to counter this is with the theory: The person who uses the name Kanon also uses the name Shannon. He also disguises as Shannon for the purpose of providing an alibi for Sayo when she disguises as Beatrice. The person named Sayo also uses the name Shannon but is not the same person as Kanon.

However, that would probably be countered by...

Spoiler for Episode 5:
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 05:24   Link #2285
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
it's pretty much the same as Kashnon theory, except evolved. XD
but i agree, kanon is extremely suspious.
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 11:21   Link #2286
Ithekro
The Comet IS Coming
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
Said rule does not make sense on account of Maria receiving the letter from Beatrice, nor a few situations of a "dead" person being recognized...post-mortum as living. While the post dead scenes can either be entirely fake (or lies), the letter to Maria is still in question, as Maria claims it was Beatrice. She could also be lying, but seems very insistant on it being "Beatrice".
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 12:09   Link #2287
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Excellent point, I agree. Since someone might be appearing as Beatrice in front of Maria and people that are supposed to be dead are being recognized as alive this is the clue that someone is using a disguise.

So that rule was never blocking the theory, thank you for reminding me.
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 12:15   Link #2288
blitz1/2
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs View Post
And also, how the hell did Erika get on sixth place?! _
Why couldn't she get 6th place? She didn't even make it to the first 5!

Oh and yea, Lambda's going to be upset again. lol
__________________

hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.
blitz1/2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 12:31   Link #2289
momobunny
◔ ◡ ◔
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Why couldn't she get 6th place? She didn't even make it to the first 5!

Oh and yea, Lambda's going to be upset again. lol
I wonder if people are even voting seriously. I mean sure, I love Rosa... but the top 3? I guess the EP2 Rosa-Musou scene and the EP3 flashback really helped her out. owo;
__________________

momobunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 13:45   Link #2290
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
well, they ARE voting for mackerel so...
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 14:42   Link #2291
Renall
BUY MY BOOK!!!
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Adding some fuel to the "evil George and Shannon power couple" theory, from episode 1's beach scene:
  • When discussing the epitaph, Shannon (and George to a lesser extent) steer the concept of "sacrifices" to murder. There's no particular reason it has to mean murder, but this suggestion colors our experience until Eva takes another crack at it in ep3.
  • George says that, to Maria, the epitaph is "magic to revive the witch."
  • George and Shannon tell the stories about Beatrice being a prankster and someone who must be respected. As far as I know there's very little on-board confirmation of this, though Gohda's extra TIP suggests someone does play tricks. Still, how much of this is not backed up by anyone but Shannon and George?
  • Out of absolutely nowhere, George asks if Maria has anything that can protect Battler and Jessica. Conveniently, she has the scorpion amulets. Shannon just suddenly happens to know the scorpion symbol wards magic, and George just happens to know the snake on the amulet protects the emerald.
  • "While eating the cookies Kumasawa-san had baked, Jessica and I asked Maria this and that about black magic. Maria happily chatted away in response to our questions. For each one, George-aniki and Shannon-chan would act surprised and agree with everything she had said." They might just be being nice (that's what Battler thinks), but maybe they've heard all this before because "Beatrice" has been coaching Maria...
  • George suddenly feels a raindrop. Battler and Maria both explicitly state they have felt nothing, but George still uses this as an excuse to wind the beach party down. He then lets Shannon run off ahead of the cousins.
George and Shannon sneak out in most episodes late at night, ostensibly to meet. However, neither is a detective character, nor is ever witnessed by a detective character, so we have no idea if they ever meet, what they talk about when they meet, or what they do afterwards (since they always go separate ways). The ring is supposed to "prove" their conversation, but they could have passed the ring between the two of them at any time.
Renall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 14:54   Link #2292
momobunny
◔ ◡ ◔
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Adding some fuel to the "evil George and Shannon power couple" theory, from episode 1's beach scene:
  • When discussing the epitaph, Shannon (and George to a lesser extent) steer the concept of "sacrifices" to murder. There's no particular reason it has to mean murder, but this suggestion colors our experience until Eva takes another crack at it in ep3.
  • George says that, to Maria, the epitaph is "magic to revive the witch."
  • George and Shannon tell the stories about Beatrice being a prankster and someone who must be respected. As far as I know there's very little on-board confirmation of this, though Gohda's extra TIP suggests someone does play tricks. Still, how much of this is not backed up by anyone but Shannon and George?
  • Out of absolutely nowhere, George asks if Maria has anything that can protect Battler and Jessica. Conveniently, she has the scorpion amulets. Shannon just suddenly happens to know the scorpion symbol wards magic, and George just happens to know the snake on the amulet protects the emerald.
  • "While eating the cookies Kumasawa-san had baked, Jessica and I asked Maria this and that about black magic. Maria happily chatted away in response to our questions. For each one, George-aniki and Shannon-chan would act surprised and agree with everything she had said." They might just be being nice (that's what Battler thinks), but maybe they've heard all this before because "Beatrice" has been coaching Maria...
  • George suddenly feels a raindrop. Battler and Maria both explicitly state they have felt nothing, but George still uses this as an excuse to wind the beach party down. He then lets Shannon run off ahead of the cousins.
George and Shannon sneak out in most episodes late at night, ostensibly to meet. However, neither is a detective character, nor is ever witnessed by a detective character, so we have no idea if they ever meet, what they talk about when they meet, or what they do afterwards (since they always go separate ways). The ring is supposed to "prove" their conversation, but they could have passed the ring between the two of them at any time.
So I'm not the only one who suspects that they're planning something.
Shannon seems especially suspicious after EP5 (unless all of the things meant to make her look suspicious are red herrings), and George is still a mystery all together to me. I wouldn't be surprised if they were both planning something together.
__________________

momobunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 15:35   Link #2293
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Adding some fuel to the "evil George and Shannon power couple" theory, from episode 1's beach scene:
  • When discussing the epitaph, Shannon (and George to a lesser extent) steer the concept of "sacrifices" to murder. There's no particular reason it has to mean murder, but this suggestion colors our experience until Eva takes another crack at it in ep3.
  • George says that, to Maria, the epitaph is "magic to revive the witch."
  • George and Shannon tell the stories about Beatrice being a prankster and someone who must be respected. As far as I know there's very little on-board confirmation of this, though Gohda's extra TIP suggests someone does play tricks. Still, how much of this is not backed up by anyone but Shannon and George?
  • Out of absolutely nowhere, George asks if Maria has anything that can protect Battler and Jessica. Conveniently, she has the scorpion amulets. Shannon just suddenly happens to know the scorpion symbol wards magic, and George just happens to know the snake on the amulet protects the emerald.
  • "While eating the cookies Kumasawa-san had baked, Jessica and I asked Maria this and that about black magic. Maria happily chatted away in response to our questions. For each one, George-aniki and Shannon-chan would act surprised and agree with everything she had said." They might just be being nice (that's what Battler thinks), but maybe they've heard all this before because "Beatrice" has been coaching Maria...
  • George suddenly feels a raindrop. Battler and Maria both explicitly state they have felt nothing, but George still uses this as an excuse to wind the beach party down. He then lets Shannon run off ahead of the cousins.
George and Shannon sneak out in most episodes late at night, ostensibly to meet. However, neither is a detective character, nor is ever witnessed by a detective character, so we have no idea if they ever meet, what they talk about when they meet, or what they do afterwards (since they always go separate ways). The ring is supposed to "prove" their conversation, but they could have passed the ring between the two of them at any time.
George has already said that he is prepared to kill everyone on the island to preserve his relationship with Shannon.
Spoiler for Shannon in episode 5:
I would surprised if they weren't involved in some way with what occurs during October 4-5.
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-29, 15:55   Link #2294
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Adding some fuel to the "evil George and Shannon power couple" theory, from episode 1's beach scene:
  • When discussing the epitaph, Shannon (and George to a lesser extent) steer the concept of "sacrifices" to murder. There's no particular reason it has to mean murder, but this suggestion colors our experience until Eva takes another crack at it in ep3.
  • George says that, to Maria, the epitaph is "magic to revive the witch."
  • George and Shannon tell the stories about Beatrice being a prankster and someone who must be respected. As far as I know there's very little on-board confirmation of this, though Gohda's extra TIP suggests someone does play tricks. Still, how much of this is not backed up by anyone but Shannon and George?
  • Out of absolutely nowhere, George asks if Maria has anything that can protect Battler and Jessica. Conveniently, she has the scorpion amulets. Shannon just suddenly happens to know the scorpion symbol wards magic, and George just happens to know the snake on the amulet protects the emerald.
  • "While eating the cookies Kumasawa-san had baked, Jessica and I asked Maria this and that about black magic. Maria happily chatted away in response to our questions. For each one, George-aniki and Shannon-chan would act surprised and agree with everything she had said." They might just be being nice (that's what Battler thinks), but maybe they've heard all this before because "Beatrice" has been coaching Maria...
  • George suddenly feels a raindrop. Battler and Maria both explicitly state they have felt nothing, but George still uses this as an excuse to wind the beach party down. He then lets Shannon run off ahead of the cousins.
George and Shannon sneak out in most episodes late at night, ostensibly to meet. However, neither is a detective character, nor is ever witnessed by a detective character, so we have no idea if they ever meet, what they talk about when they meet, or what they do afterwards (since they always go separate ways). The ring is supposed to "prove" their conversation, but they could have passed the ring between the two of them at any time.

Well, come to think of it, him asking Hideyoshi about a ring suddenly becomes a lot less sad if you think he might have asked Shannon to use that for a convincing trick on a fake corpse.
Workworkwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-30, 20:36   Link #2295
shirato31790
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New York City
Can anyone tell me the name (including the kanji) of Rokkejima's previous name?
I want to see if it may be related to the epitaph
shirato31790 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-30, 20:52   Link #2296
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
George has already said that he is prepared to kill everyone on the island to preserve his relationship with Shannon.
Spoiler for Shannon in episode 5:
I would surprised if they weren't involved in some way with what occurs during October 4-5.
I already said this before, but this kind of situation is viable if the family is REALLY against this. Only ones I can see being against it to any extreme measure are Eva and Kinzo. The latter is dead already, so Eva is just left on the 'No George/Shannon boat'.

Also, we've seen in previous games that the entire 'forbidden romance' might not nearly be as forbidden as one would think. Hideyoshi didn't object at all about it, during EP 1 in the shed, even though he DID figure out that George gave Shannon the ring. And then in EP 2 Rudolf just brushes off everything he hears about George practicing his proposal and even wishes him good luck with it. Plus why would George and Shannon need to kill everyone that doesn't approve of their relationship, it seems kinda crazy
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-30, 21:01   Link #2297
chronotrig
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
I already said this before, but this kind of situation is viable if the family is REALLY against this. Only ones I can see being against it to any extreme measure are Eva and Kinzo. The latter is dead already, so Eva is just left on the 'No George/Shannon boat'.

Also, we've seen in previous games that the entire 'forbidden romance' might not nearly be as forbidden as one would think. Hideyoshi didn't object at all about it, during EP 1 in the shed, even though he DID figure out that George gave Shannon the ring. And then in EP 2 Rudolf just brushes off everything he hears about George practicing his proposal and even wishes him good luck with it. Plus why would George and Shannon need to kill everyone that doesn't approve of their relationship, it seems kinda crazy
I'm not sure Hideyoshi didn't object at all. He just had the common sense to realize complaining about it would be absolutely pointless. Eva was the one acting stupidly.

"What, you love a filthy servant? I forbid it! I don't ever want to see you with her again!"...would obviously accomplish a lot
__________________
"The only moral it is possible to draw from this story is that one should never throw the letter 'q' into a privet bush. But, unfortunately, there are times when it is unavoidable."
--Hitchhikers


www.witch-hunt.com Theory page
chronotrig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-30, 21:10   Link #2298
momobunny
◔ ◡ ◔
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 24
I doubt romance is the motive for Shannon... it seems too obvious to me. If she loves George, then legally she's able to marry him and live as his wife and so on. If she's going to murder or take part in murdering a bunch of people, she needs a solid reason.
__________________

momobunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-30, 21:29   Link #2299
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
I'm not sure Hideyoshi didn't object at all. He just had the common sense to realize complaining about it would be absolutely pointless. Eva was the one acting stupidly.

"What, you love a filthy servant? I forbid it! I don't ever want to see you with her again!"...would obviously accomplish a lot
But when they were alone (Eva and Hideyoshi) in their room Hideyoshi didn't really agree with Eva about Shannon not being good enough for George. Besides, he seems like the type who wouldn't care much as long as George is happy (he did say that George is a man now and needs to make his own decisions) and he gets some grandchildren
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-09-30, 23:59   Link #2300
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Also in ep4 Kyrie and Krauss didn't seem to object that much about George and Shannon's relationship. I think nobody would really care except Eva.

Quote:
Can anyone tell me the name (including the kanji) of Rokkejima's previous name?
I want to see if it may be related to the epitaph
there are two names:

Azukijima
小豆島

and

Akujikijima

悪食島

The former is said to be a mispronunciation of the latter
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.