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Old 2009-10-01, 00:01   Link #2301
momobunny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Also in ep4 Kyrie and Krauss didn't seem to object that much about George and Shannon's relationship. I think nobody would really care except Eva.
Natsuhi might... but probably only towards Jessica and Kanon, she'd have no reason to go against George and Shannon as far as I know.
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Old 2009-10-01, 00:06   Link #2302
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Yeah I was just talking about George and Shannon. in the case of Jessica and Kanon I think Eva would gleefully say that it's "fantastic", and Natsuhi would scream and tearing her hair off.
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Old 2009-10-01, 01:09   Link #2303
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After watching episode 14 I've started to somewhat question the validity of the adult discussion of Ep3, more importantly in relation to Ep5's solution by Erika and Battler. In short, due to the considerable similarities between the methods used by Erika/Battler in Ep5 to those used by Eva/Rosa in Ep3, on the assumption that should the adult discussion and Eva's own little investigation be omitted from the anime not as a plot hole but as intended by Ryukishi himself, does this likewise call into question the validity of Erika and Battler's solution?

The similarities between Ep3 and Ep5 are unmistakable, the concrete link provided of course by the use of the Atlas to discover the location of the gold. On the assumption that the gold is always in the same place in every game, it stands to reason that the methods used to find them in every game are in essence nearly identical. However, assuming again that the anime omits the adult discussion and Eva's method of discovery as per Ryukishi's instructions (suggesting that it is not actually important), it suggests that Eva's, Erika's and all similar modes of discovery are also questionable.
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Old 2009-10-01, 06:12   Link #2304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
After watching episode 14 I've started to somewhat question the validity of the adult discussion of Ep3, more importantly in relation to Ep5's solution by Erika and Battler. In short, due to the considerable similarities between the methods used by Erika/Battler in Ep5 to those used by Eva/Rosa in Ep3, on the assumption that should the adult discussion and Eva's own little investigation be omitted from the anime not as a plot hole but as intended by Ryukishi himself, does this likewise call into question the validity of Erika and Battler's solution?

The similarities between Ep3 and Ep5 are unmistakable, the concrete link provided of course by the use of the Atlas to discover the location of the gold. On the assumption that the gold is always in the same place in every game, it stands to reason that the methods used to find them in every game are in essence nearly identical. However, assuming again that the anime omits the adult discussion and Eva's method of discovery as per Ryukishi's instructions (suggesting that it is not actually important), it suggests that Eva's, Erika's and all similar modes of discovery are also questionable.

Ryukishi did say he was overseeing the script for the anime. However, he may have only been able to preserve a few critical scenes before deen brushed him off, such as Eva having a problem with the Epitaph substituting for a lengthy discussion by the adults!
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Old 2009-10-01, 07:04   Link #2305
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I think it's clear now that in the anime they decided to sacrifice the epitaph in favor of the main plot.

In the end the epitaph is just a subplot, a funny riddle and nothing more. It is not relevant to the main plot whatsoever.

Personally I've never had any doubt that Eva and Rosa reasonings of ep3 were correct, and to be honest it always pissed me off seeing people that tried to solve the riddle while completely disregarding those hints, as if you can go anywhere without a comparison to verify the theory (it's not like we can actually check the gold's location).

Anyway to reiterate, this omission in the anime doesn't mean that the adult discussion was irrelevant to the solution of the epitaph, it just means that the solution of the epitaph is irrelevant to the main plot. The golden inscription on the chapel was omitted as well.

Another thing that I always affirmed is that the serial murder has nothing to do with the epitaph. Well one thing we know for sure:

Spoiler for Episode5:
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Old 2009-10-01, 07:37   Link #2306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I think it's clear now that in the anime they decided to sacrifice the epitaph in favor of the main plot.

In the end the epitaph is just a subplot, a funny riddle and nothing more. It is not relevant to the main plot whatsoever.

Personally I've never had any doubt that Eva and Rosa reasonings of ep3 were correct, and to be honest it always pissed me off seeing people that tried to solve the riddle while completely disregarding those hints, as if you can go anywhere without a comparison to verify the theory (it's not like we can actually check the gold's location).

Anyway to reiterate, this omission in the anime doesn't mean that the adult discussion was irrelevant to the solution of the epitaph, it just means that the solution of the epitaph is irrelevant to the main plot. The golden inscription on the chapel was omitted as well.

Another thing that I always affirmed is that the serial murder has nothing to do with the epitaph. Well one thing we know for sure:

Spoiler for Episode5:

Yeah, the epitaph always seemed like more of a subplot to me. A neat subplot that I'm sad got omitted, but a subplot none the less. Glad I'm not the only one who felt that way.
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Old 2009-10-01, 08:36   Link #2307
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Given that it's almost completely true that the epitaph has no real relation the murders whatsover other than a copycat pattern, it sort of saddens me to see that people want to drop the anime just because they made the epitaph take a back seat in episode 14.
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Old 2009-10-01, 08:51   Link #2308
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Well it saddens me (a lot) that the epitaph has been disregarded that much, however I can still enjoy the rest.
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Old 2009-10-01, 09:03   Link #2309
Workworkwork
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Given that it's almost completely true that the epitaph has no real relation the murders whatsover other than a copycat pattern, it sort of saddens me to see that people want to drop the anime just because they made the epitaph take a back seat in episode 14.
It's more of a last straw, from what I've read.
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Old 2009-10-01, 09:59   Link #2310
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Perhaps. The first 2 episodes of Ep3 reinvigorated some of the anime's harsher critics, so maybe Eva-Beato's actions will reignite interest in the series?
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Old 2009-10-01, 14:03   Link #2311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I think it's clear now that in the anime they decided to sacrifice the epitaph in favor of the main plot.

In the end the epitaph is just a subplot, a funny riddle and nothing more. It is not relevant to the main plot whatsoever.

Personally I've never had any doubt that Eva and Rosa reasonings of ep3 were correct, and to be honest it always pissed me off seeing people that tried to solve the riddle while completely disregarding those hints, as if you can go anywhere without a comparison to verify the theory (it's not like we can actually check the gold's location).

Anyway to reiterate, this omission in the anime doesn't mean that the adult discussion was irrelevant to the solution of the epitaph, it just means that the solution of the epitaph is irrelevant to the main plot. The golden inscription on the chapel was omitted as well.

Another thing that I always affirmed is that the serial murder has nothing to do with the epitaph. Well one thing we know for sure:

Spoiler for Episode5:
I don't think the epitaph is irrelevant at all. More likely, the reason they cut out the reasoning for the epitaph is that anyone should be able to figure out most of that for themselves. There's absolutely no new material presented in that discussion except knowing how far each of the characters was capable of reasoning it out for themselves.

And I think you've misunderstood EP5.

Spoiler for ep5:
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Old 2009-10-01, 15:35   Link #2312
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It's also a hint to the culprit's motives.

Spoiler for EP 5 spoilers:


And yeah Krauss doesn't seem to mind Jessica and Kanon's relationship when he found out about it. He might have been a little startled, but generally he wasn't really angry at all. And in the phony 'Golden Land' scene in EP 3 he even said that it didn't matter to him, as long as Jessica was happy, which can be a real big hint despite it being a fantasy scene.
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Old 2009-10-01, 17:21   Link #2313
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Spoiler for beato's goal:
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Old 2009-10-01, 19:01   Link #2314
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But isn't the red text

Beato doesn't kill for fun. quite contradictory to Ep 1-4? She seemed like she's having fun.

It can also be true, that CURRENT Beato doesn't kill for fun. why? She's in a comatose-ish state. She couldn't kill even if she wanted to.

Also, for future eps. Hopefully, Lucifer gets promoted to head furniture for Battler so that it can make that crack pairing strong and well, further empowering Lucifer (more pride I guess)

If Battler is bringing in more game pieces, I got a feeling that a new character/game piece would be made in the image of Asumu.
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Old 2009-10-01, 19:16   Link #2315
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Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
But isn't the red text

Beato doesn't kill for fun. quite contradictory to Ep 1-4? She seemed like she's having fun.

It can also be true, that CURRENT Beato doesn't kill for fun. why? She's in a comatose-ish state. She couldn't kill even if she wanted to.

Also, for future eps. Hopefully, Lucifer gets promoted to head furniture fosay r Battler so that it can make that crack pairing strong and well, further empowering Lucifer (more pride I guess)

If Battler is bringing in more game pieces, I got a feeling that a new character/game piece would be made in the image of Asumu.
It doesn't say that she doesn't kill for fun. It only says that having fun isn't the reason she kills. The original red is very clear on this point. Also, we don't know for sure whether she's actually responsible for the deaths in the earlier episodes. Maybe one of the game rules forces some people to die, in which case, she has no motive for murder itself (though she probably has some control over how the murders happen).
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Old 2009-10-01, 19:18   Link #2316
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1.maybe the crucial part about this sentence is kill not fun?
possibly it could as well be Beato doesn't kill. which doesn't prevent her from having fun from it.

2.having fun while killing =/= fun beeing the reason for killing. Beato kills for fun could be interpreted as Beato's reason for killing is having fun.
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Old 2009-10-01, 19:42   Link #2317
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Or she could be acting.
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Old 2009-10-01, 20:18   Link #2318
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Playing with the victims seems to be fun for her. The killing ends the fun
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Old 2009-10-01, 20:39   Link #2319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
But isn't the red text

Beato doesn't kill for fun. quite contradictory to Ep 1-4? She seemed like she's having fun.

It can also be true, that CURRENT Beato doesn't kill for fun. why? She's in a comatose-ish state. She couldn't kill even if she wanted to.

Also, for future eps. Hopefully, Lucifer gets promoted to head furniture for Battler so that it can make that crack pairing strong and well, further empowering Lucifer (more pride I guess)

If Battler is bringing in more game pieces, I got a feeling that a new character/game piece would be made in the image of Asumu.

I like to think of her behavior as a sort of Beatrice Vi Britannia.

"I'm eeeeeevil! That's right, it was ME! I did it! I confess!" is basically her keeping Battler's righteous fury up.

Hence the reason she tortures Rosa in EP2's tea party, suddenly goes back to "EEEVIL" in EP3's phony Golden Land scene(I rewatched it, and it seemed like the first hint she was just pretending to be evil, what with Battler in tears asking her if she lied 3 times, and her having some difficulty busting out the troll face yet again.), and then acts evil one more time in the end by repeatedly mentioning Ange in EP4's tea party.


Also, I keep thinking if he does bring in a new piece, it's gotta be either Amakusa(Too mysterious to ignore, man) or 6-year old Ange(She apparently did believe in magic enough to contact Bernkastel.).

Ditto on the Lucifer idea.
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Old 2009-10-01, 20:47   Link #2320
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Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post

Hence the reason she tortures Rosa in EP2's tea party, suddenly goes back to "EEEVIL" in EP3's phony Golden Land scene(I rewatched it, and it seemed like the first hint she was just pretending to be evil, what with Battler in tears asking her if she lied 3 times, and her having some difficulty busting out the troll face yet again.), and then acts evil one more time in the end by repeatedly mentioning Ange in EP4's tea party.
And if I recall correctly, there's also a part in Ep. 4 where Beato wishes to herself that she had kept up the fake act in Ep. 3 (that's all I remember from that monologue, I'll go look for it right now.)
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