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Old 2009-10-07, 14:03   Link #2341
Ithekro
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Seperate tunnels perhaps. If you are going to build one and you got the crew and the money...and a reason, why not build another one.

Alternately, maybe this was the bomb shelter (typhoon shelter). The area does get typhoons now and again, and if this was buily just post-war/beginning of the Cold War/atomic age, and Kinzo's a bit paranoid/weird, he might have build an elegant bedroom into the bomb shelter, then stuffed the gold down there...so that if the US and USSR decided to nuke the world...well Kinzo (and Beatrice) would be safe for a while in a nice room, and if civilization survived, he'd still have 10 tons of non-radioactive gold.
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Old 2009-10-07, 14:13   Link #2342
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If the epitaph was a guide to Kinzo's secret bomb shelter, then how did Eva find Kuwadorian?
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Old 2009-10-07, 14:15   Link #2343
Ithekro
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Maybe they are in the same area (if Kinzo was keeping Beatrice where she could get to the shelter, that would make sense).

When was the Kuwadorian built and when was the main mansion built?
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Old 2009-10-07, 14:25   Link #2344
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The mansion was built in the early 50's; Kuwadorian was probably built around the same time.

Let me rephrase:
1: If the location of the gold is not connected to the tunnel to Kuwadorian, how did Eva get there?
2: If the location of the gold is somehow connected to the tunnel to Kuwadorian, and Krauss has found Kuwadorian, why hasn't he been able to work his way backwards to find the gold?
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Old 2009-10-07, 14:32   Link #2345
Ithekro
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Krauss is more incompetent than Battler?

Perhaps the tunnel is not connected directly to the Kuwadorian. Perhaps the exit is outside the Kuwadorian (bomb shelter entrances tended to be on the outside of homes if I recall correctly). Thus finding the Kuwadorian might not be enough to find the gold. Maybe it is more something outside that is the key,
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Old 2009-10-07, 15:08   Link #2346
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The point is we have absolutely no clue how Eva found the kuwadorian, nothing of the sort was mentioned in the game. The theory that the epitaph's solution lead her there can explain this, but it doesn't prove anything.

If there wasn't any problem I'd stick with this theory myself, but I see many.

If the gold was really connected or close to the kuwadorian, then the epitaph would be a lot easier to solve for the servants and Nanjo than for anyone else. That doesn't make the game "fair" for everyone involved and that kinda defies the whole purpose.
I can't accept this as a valid possibility, it's easier for me to think there's a reason Eva found the kuwadorian that we haven't been told of.
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Old 2009-10-07, 15:54   Link #2347
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The point is we have absolutely no clue how Eva found the kuwadorian, nothing of the sort was mentioned in the game. The theory that the epitaph's solution lead her there can explain this, but it doesn't prove anything.

If there wasn't any problem I'd stick with this theory myself, but I see many.

If the gold was really connected or close to the kuwadorian, then the epitaph would be a lot easier to solve for the servants and Nanjo than for anyone else. That doesn't make the game "fair" for everyone involved and that kinda defies the whole purpose.
I can't accept this as a valid possibility, it's easier for me to think there's a reason Eva found the kuwadorian that we haven't been told of.
Maybe she's known about it all along?
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Old 2009-10-07, 15:58   Link #2348
Marion
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Maybe she's known about it all along?
Well all the siblings suspected a hidden mansion, but none of them have ever actually been to it before, as far as we know, besides Rosa. But Rosa said that she didn't know how to get back to the Kuwadorian, since she was just randomly running around. Only ones that knew about the Kuwadorian would be Kinzo (obviously), Nanjo (said so in EP 4, but it was a magic scene so), Genji (Kawabata said that Genji was the one who told him not to deliver to the other dock anymore) and it's implied Kumasawa knew too (the framed picture of the Kuwadorian)
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Old 2009-10-07, 16:22   Link #2349
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Jan-Poo: Or maybe the epitaph (as Eva solved it) was the path to Kuwadorian, and Krauss hasn't found it.

And by servants, just Genji and Kumasawa. There's no reason for Kanon or Shannon to know of it, and certainly not Gohda. And the trap epitaph hypothesis (with the salting the claim hypothesis) would explain why Genji / Kumasawa / Nanjo haven't taken the gold.
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Old 2009-10-07, 17:21   Link #2350
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Well all the siblings suspected a hidden mansion, but none of them have ever actually been to it before, as far as we know, besides Rosa. But Rosa said that she didn't know how to get back to the Kuwadorian, since she was just randomly running around. Only ones that knew about the Kuwadorian would be Kinzo (obviously), Nanjo (said so in EP 4, but it was a magic scene so), Genji (Kawabata said that Genji was the one who told him not to deliver to the other dock anymore) and it's implied Kumasawa knew too (the framed picture of the Kuwadorian)
Now that you mention this Eva in Ep3 became aware of the Kuwadorian's exitence directly by Rosa. This could be a possible explanation for her being there.

Anyway that picture was the chapel. The image you see at that time is listed inside the "chapel" directory in the game graphic files.

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Jan-Poo: Or maybe the epitaph (as Eva solved it) was the path to Kuwadorian, and Krauss hasn't found it.

And by servants, just Genji and Kumasawa. There's no reason for Kanon or Shannon to know of it, and certainly not Gohda. And the trap epitaph hypothesis (with the salting the claim hypothesis) would explain why Genji / Kumasawa / Nanjo haven't taken the gold.
Kanon and Shannon were born after Beatrice died, so there's no reason for them to know, however Nanjo Genji and Kumasawa do. That's three of them. And It appears that Kumasawa was trying to solve the epitaph, her son says so and we also have that picture and the chapel's inscription translated as proof.
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Old 2009-10-07, 17:57   Link #2351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by episode 4
"......Oh yeah, that's a photo I got when Mother's belongings were distributed. I think it probably has something to do with that 'Legend of the Gold' thing."

"The witch's epitaph, you mean? It was whispered that it pointed out the location of the hidden 10 tons of gold... ......So, Kumasawa-san tried to solve it too. But this isn't the epitaph. It's the first time I've seen it."

There was an arch above the western-style door, and that's where the relief was. English words were engraved there, and that seemed to be what the picture was focused on. The pen writing appeared to be a translation into Japanese.

-----

"In Mother's belongings, there were quite a few photos and notes that looked like they were from her trying to solve the riddle of the epitaph. Mother was actually surprisingly fond of that kind of thing. And there was that rumor that 10 tons of gold bars were hidden somewhere. That should have made Mother ecstatic."
There is nothing to date the photographs or notes. Sakabata does not specifically remember Kumasawa trying to solve the epitaph. The evidence here is also consistent with Kumasawa having written the epitaph.
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Old 2009-10-08, 07:09   Link #2352
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Ange thinks that Kumasawa tried to solve the riddle, and Kumasawa's son believes that's the case. Why would Kumasawa need to translate the inscription if she was the one who wrote it? If she's the one who made the riddle she should be proficient in english, there was no need for her to "write" a translation.

Anyway the real problem is that I really can't see how Kumasawa could have been the one who wrote the epitaph. Kinzo was still alive in 1984 and even if he was dead, Krauss would have never allowed such a thing to be placed there for everyone to see it, considering it is a potential threat to his role a the next successor.

You need to imagine Kumasawa is actually the ruler of the island or something.
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Old 2009-10-08, 12:21   Link #2353
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So I'm not going to go down the whole Rika=Bern road, but the world of Higurashi was the game board that Lambda had Bern trapped in right?
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Old 2009-10-08, 13:12   Link #2354
Workworkwork
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Ange thinks that Kumasawa tried to solve the riddle, and Kumasawa's son believes that's the case. Why would Kumasawa need to translate the inscription if she was the one who wrote it? If she's the one who made the riddle she should be proficient in english, there was no need for her to "write" a translation.

Anyway the real problem is that I really can't see how Kumasawa could have been the one who wrote the epitaph. Kinzo was still alive in 1984 and even if he was dead, Krauss would have never allowed such a thing to be placed there for everyone to see it, considering it is a potential threat to his role a the next successor.

You need to imagine Kumasawa is actually the ruler of the island or something.
Unless Beatrice is disguising as her.

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So I'm not going to go down the whole Rika=Bern road, but the world of Higurashi was the game board that Lambda had Bern trapped in right?
Sorta.
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Old 2009-10-08, 13:49   Link #2355
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Sorta.
So can you point me to where this "sorta" is explained more. Or feel free to PM me.
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Old 2009-10-08, 13:49   Link #2356
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"This door opens with a probability of a quadrillion to one." was written outside the chapel, probably since the chapel was built. It's not part of the epitaph. Taking that photograph and translating it would have been one of the first steps she took in writing the epitaph.

I don't get your "Krauss wouldn't have allowed it." claim. Krauss would have probably received a message through Genji, ostensibly from Kinzo, saying that he wanted the painting and epitaph done.

Sakabata and Ange thought Kumasawa was trying to solve the epitaph. What evidence did they have? Just the notes, which, as I mentioned, are also consistent with Kumasawa having written it (or at least, helped Kinzo / Genji / Nanjo write it).
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Old 2009-10-08, 13:52   Link #2357
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So can you point me to where this "sorta" is explained more. Or feel free to PM me.
Well, it's heavily implied, but nowhere is it said that that's definitely the case. In fact, there's a joke scene where Bern threatens to tell Lambda the solution to Higurashi, which she hasn't finished - and as much as it was kind of a joke there's a small possibility that it was implying that Lambda was completely uninvolved in it.

Again, a lot depends on whether you believe the Bern in Higurashi = the Bern in Umineko.
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Old 2009-10-08, 16:26   Link #2358
Jan-Poo
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I don't get your "Krauss wouldn't have allowed it." claim. Krauss would have probably received a message through Genji, ostensibly from Kinzo, saying that he wanted the painting and epitaph done.
And why Genji would do that? You need to explain what kind of conspiracy are you postulating.

According to the elements so far, Genji and Kumasawa are involved, they lie to Krauss and Natsuhi, they know the location of the gold and yet they don't care they rather create this epitaph. What do they gain from that? If you claim that Kinzo took part in the plan, then you need to explain what made Kinzo think that the lowliest of his servant was better fit to create a complicated riddle rather than himself. If you claim that Kinzo didn't take any part in the plan, then you need to explain how come the epitaph was found inside his private rooms as well.

Unless you give a proper explanation the idea that Kumasawa made the epitaph doesn't sound reasonable.
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Old 2009-10-08, 19:08   Link #2359
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A bit of speculation on the future. How long will Erika stay alive in Umineko? She came to the board because of a miracle. The same will probably happen on the next game since she will be the detective. However, if she fails to please Bernkastel this time...
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Old 2009-10-08, 19:11   Link #2360
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A bit of speculation on the future. How long will Erika stay alive in Umineko? She came to the board because of a miracle. The same will probably happen on the next game since she will be the detective. However, if she fails to please Bernkastel this time...
Well time can only tell, but we'll probably seeing her until the end of the series as far as I can see now.
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