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Old 2011-08-19, 19:17   Link #23821
Revelation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
There's also the secondary layer of how does the author know? Even if we take at face value that the cliff incident happened, there's no way anybody could know if Natsuhi ever actually did it or actually admitted to it. If it happened, she is basically the only person who could possibly have known she did it. And I think it very unlikely she ever would have told anyone who wound up surviving long enough to spread that information around. Strikes me as authorial speculation at best.
Perhaps, the one servant Natsuhi pushed off a cliff miraculously survived like Yasu, got amnesia, swam to mainland, lived the rest of her life in a wheel chair, and her memories came back after witnessing the devastating aftermath of Rokkenjima on TV and then began telling the whole world about Natsuhi, giving an author ideas. But yeah, I agree it's probably all speculation, like most of Umineko.
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Last edited by Revelation; 2011-08-19 at 19:30.
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Old 2011-08-19, 19:22   Link #23822
FirstTwilight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
There's also the secondary layer of how does the author know?
But this... could be said about anything of Umineko.

Everything does make sense if meta-world exists, just saying. :P
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Old 2011-08-19, 19:35   Link #23823
cronnoponno
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Bah, I just wish they would have developed the maid enough to make us care a little more about her.


Maybe if we heard her story, even speculation, we could hear a good reason why she would be like ''Oh hey a cliff! I'MA FALL OFF IT''.
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Old 2011-08-19, 20:10   Link #23824
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
You seem to think like Ryuukishi but in a real life situation I would disagree. I believe that in case of murder there is a moral obligation to come out and in particular the relatives of the deceased have the right to know.
I don't entirely disagree with you, but I would fear the very real life repercussions that such an exposure might bode. Shall we tear a loved one from one family so that another family may know that their loved one's death wasn't an accident? Indeed it is a difficult moral dilemma, which is a sign of good storytelling.

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Bah, I just wish they would have developed the maid enough to make us care a little more about her.
Yeah I completely agree.

But then RK07 would have had to draw her.
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Old 2011-08-19, 20:39   Link #23825
FirstTwilight
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Oh god, why is the maid important now?
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Old 2011-08-19, 20:50   Link #23826
cronnoponno
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Originally Posted by FirstTwilight View Post
Oh god, why is the maid important now?
I don't care what kind of crappy excuse someone uses, it is almost impossible that someone could be stupid enough to approach a cliff close enough to risk being dropped off of it, let alone drop off along with the baby you are with, at the very least, I would have expected the servant to fall first then die and the baby just get abandoned and get kidnapped and go missing or something, or that the baby died and the Servant would have been screwed and ran away, or something to that extent.

But what excuse would you use? Strong wind pressure? Maid was stupid enough to let the stroller roll downhill?

Are there magical demons pushing people off that cliff to create the delusion that Kinzo cannot have his beloved Beatrice?

Was Rosa lying about Beatrice falling off by accident?(Beatrice's story makes more sense because she was messing around on the mountain, I highly doubt a servant would just go mountain-climbing with a baby), and Rosa pushed her off after she figured out she was bangin her daddy without her mom knowing, and started pushing everything relating to Beatrice off a cliff?(That'd be impossible.)

Even if you can explain all this, if a nameless maid no one cares about dies, where we can't see her history and past, we're almost always going to be on Natsuhi's side because ''we feel more sorry for her'', we can't give a complete ''What do I think about the situation''.
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Old 2011-08-19, 21:35   Link #23827
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Not much of a point, but do you know what I always found suspicious? Natsuhi never heard Yasu or the maid hit the ground and couldn't lean over to check. Yeah, we heard her side, "My mind must of blocked it out..." yada yada, but I just always thought that was kinda weird.
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Old 2011-08-19, 21:52   Link #23828
cronnoponno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Dream View Post
Not much of a point, but do you know what I always found suspicious? Natsuhi never heard Yasu or the maid hit the ground and couldn't lean over to check. Yeah, we heard her side, "My mind must of blocked it out..." yada yada, but I just always thought that was kinda weird.
Not to mention that it'd be easy to have a baby survive a fall from a cliff and hit a rock if it never fell from said cliff in the first place.

.....Although I think that'd be pretty...well....I can't say that'd suck I guess that could work.
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Old 2011-08-19, 22:14   Link #23829
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I am reading Higanbana (RK07's latest thing), and he jokingly references Umineko in it. I thought I'd post the part, as someone may find it relevant as commentary.

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-08-19, 22:27   Link #23830
cronnoponno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I am reading Higanbana (RK07's latest thing), and he jokingly references Umineko in it. I thought I'd post the part, as someone may find it relevant as commentary.

Spoiler:
Give it up everyone, a school with a rapist teacher did a play and Umineko is that very play, we just got to see the play before the actors.

(I am joking around)
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Old 2011-08-19, 22:30   Link #23831
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Umineko is solved forevar
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Old 2011-08-19, 22:40   Link #23832
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Originally Posted by cronnoponno View Post
Give it up everyone, a school with a rapist teacher did a play and Umineko is that very play, we just got to see the play before the actors.

(I am joking around)
Oh come on. It's not rape if you do it after you strangle them to death... twice...
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Old 2011-08-19, 22:44   Link #23833
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Well, I havent read EP8 yet so I can't say...

Was it definitely confirmed in EP8 that Natsuhi physically pushed that maid off the cliff? What did she say?
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Old 2011-08-19, 22:44   Link #23834
cronnoponno
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Oh come on. It's not rape if you do it after you strangle them to death... twice...
I can already see it, there's going to be Parody's about how Umineko was just the product of a teachers dream or something, and that motivates him to make the play, and thus Higurashi is a show within a show within a show.
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Old 2011-08-19, 23:41   Link #23835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
Well, I havent read EP8 yet so I can't say...

Was it definitely confirmed in EP8 that Natsuhi physically pushed that maid off the cliff? What did she say?
Basically Natsuhi gives her guilt about pushing the baby/maid off the cliff, and Beatrice accepts it as true and says some comforting words. So really no new information because Yasu already believed it.
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Old 2011-08-19, 23:48   Link #23836
CainSonozaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I am reading Higanbana (RK07's latest thing), and he jokingly references Umineko in it. I thought I'd post the part, as someone may find it relevant as commentary.

Spoiler:
"Jokingly reference" Umineko my ass
Spoiler for Higanbana vn:
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Old 2011-08-19, 23:59   Link #23837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
Well, I havent read EP8 yet so I can't say...

Was it definitely confirmed in EP8 that Natsuhi physically pushed that maid off the cliff? What did she say?
What AT said, and the scene only happened when you answered a puzzle question right. It's in the half of ep8 that Witch Hunt has already translated; you could read it if you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CainSonozaki View Post
"Jokingly reference" Umineko my ass
Spoiler for Higanbana vn:
Haha, haven't read that far yet. My Japanese isn't that good so I'm slow.
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Old 2011-08-20, 00:14   Link #23838
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Oh my god that screenshot is AMAZIN
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Old 2011-08-20, 00:15   Link #23839
CainSonozaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
What AT said, and the scene only happened when you answered a puzzle question right. It's in the half of ep8 that Witch Hunt has already translated; you could read it if you want.



Haha, haven't read that far yet. My Japanese isn't that good so I'm slow.
I got it from a Higanbana facebook fan page
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Old 2011-08-20, 13:30   Link #23840
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Then how does the author know what Rudolf did with Battler if not even his closest relatives knew?
Reasonable speculation. Especially if the author coming to believe this is Battler himself. And there's no way of knowing what Yasu knew (I mean maybe Rudolf talked to somebody about it one year and she overheard, or she guessed herself).
Quote:
I go with the assumption that since this is the last episode and those scenes are a reward it's basically Ryuukishi himself talking through his characters.
You have to admit that if all that stuff never happened it wouldn't have any narrative value whatsoever.
No I don't. It has narrative value to the narrative as has been developed. Fictional-Natsuhi did it, believes she did it, and has been forgiven for doing it. Real-Natsuhi, we'll never know. But Real-Life Natsuhi has never been a character in Umineko anyway.
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