AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-10-09, 22:40   Link #2381
chronotrig
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Erika as a Watson but more annoying. I don't remember Watson hijacking mysteries from Holmes in any stories I read :P

Well we have to remember that the reason people seem to listen to Erika a lot of time is because of Bern and Lambda's influence on the board. Perhaps her status as 'detective' might attribute to this as well, since if you notice in EP 1-4 (mostly 1-3 though) that the other characters sometimes listened to Battler's theories more than not.

I remember early in the anime during arc 1 when everyone was inside the servant's rest room they were all listening to Battler talk about the key and the padlock, as if going on his every word. It was stated in red by Dlanor that he was the detective of EP 1-4, so maybe they listened to him for the same reasons they're now listening to Erika.
Maybe, but there's no proof that being the detective actually means anything on the game board. People listened to Battler because his arguments (only the game board ones) actually made sense. There's a chance that people listen to Erika for some completely different reason (blackmail; worried she'll blab about the gold; her wonderful personality).
__________________
"The only moral it is possible to draw from this story is that one should never throw the letter 'q' into a privet bush. But, unfortunately, there are times when it is unavoidable."
--Hitchhikers


www.witch-hunt.com Theory page
chronotrig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-09, 23:03   Link #2382
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by desirebluesky View Post
while i noticed Erika may be annoying, she didn't actually annoy me... she's kinda like a Watson of this story, just with asshole element added.
http://umineko.locker.jp/vote/

I can't believe Dlanor is losing to Erika. Oh well, at least Battler and Beato got 1 and 2 locked up.
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-09, 23:08   Link #2383
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
http://umineko.locker.jp/vote/

I can't believe Dlanor is losing to Erika. Oh well, at least Battler and Beato got 1 and 2 locked up.
I'm surprised that Rosa's in 4th place

Spoiler for EP 5:


I think a lot of these votes are hinged on the anime viewers too. That's why Eva-Beatrice is so high, despite not even appearing after EP 3 are a character in game (no, EP 4 does not count guys)
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-09, 23:11   Link #2384
momobunny
◔ ◡ ◔
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 23
Ugh... EvaBeatrice is now beating Virgilia? >_>;

Stupid anime only voters. *shot*

The characters are all over the place.
__________________

momobunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-09, 23:18   Link #2385
Kamar
Author Wannabe
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
...Dlanor is losing to Erika...

Damn it Japan, I like lolis too but that's too much.


*voted for Dlanor*
Kamar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-09, 23:35   Link #2386
Umineko_neko
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: inside my head
I had a long flight home and was trying to get the overall concept of Umineko and what is the main purpose of Beatrice and Battler and the whole story, not messing with the details too much.
So... yeah, this is the effect.
I wonder if it may be true (you just can't prove much of it, but you also can't find the way to just deny it - devil's proof )

Spoiler for what is Umineko about - all episodes:
Umineko_neko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 00:24   Link #2387
ameskitty
Kupo
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 22
For the sake of all that is adorable, VOTE FOR KANON! (he and jessi are almost tied and there's only a few hours left <3)
__________________

Avatar adapted from Yoshitaka Amano art

"There is no such thing as a sexy George." - Rhiannon, Easy A
ameskitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 02:48   Link #2388
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Spoiler for EP 5:
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 06:18   Link #2389
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umineko_neko View Post
I had a long flight home and was trying to get the overall concept of Umineko and what is the main purpose of Beatrice and Battler and the whole story, not messing with the details too much.
So... yeah, this is the effect.
I wonder if it may be true (you just can't prove much of it, but you also can't find the way to just deny it - devil's proof )

Spoiler for what is Umineko about - all episodes:

Beato is not some metaphor or an idea-Somebody named Beatrice exists on Rokkenjima in 1986. Battler saw her perfectly in the rain! Why do people think there was something obscuring him recognizing her face?!
Workworkwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 07:00   Link #2390
Kaiba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
Quote:
Beato is not some metaphor or an idea-Somebody named Beatrice exists on Rokkenjima in 1986. Battler saw her perfectly in the rain! Why do people think there was something obscuring him recognizing her face?!
There is no way that Battler actually saw a real Beatrice due to There are no more than 17 people on this island. It makes much more sense that he saw someone dressed up as Beatrice. And how could he have seen her perfectly when she is very high up in the middle of a night that is raining and lightning really hard?
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 07:22   Link #2391
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
There is no way that Battler actually saw a real Beatrice due to There are no more than 17 people on this island. It makes much more sense that he saw someone dressed up as Beatrice. And how could he have seen her perfectly when she is very high up in the middle of a night that is raining and lightning really hard?
He said he could recognize her face as the one in the portrait. He also HEARD someone he had never recognized on the phone.There was no mention of any sight issues that might prevent him from recognizing a person!


Why does everyone else rule out Beato disguising as somebody else? As I have drummed on repeatedly, Beato is probably disguising as Kumasawa, who has also lived "remarkably" like Kinzo.
Workworkwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 07:38   Link #2392
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
He said he could recognize her face as the one in the portrait. He also HEARD someone he had never recognized on the phone.There was no mention of any sight issues that might prevent him from recognizing a person!
This point is meaningless because your theory doesn't address this problem either. In both cases you need to accept there is a person X who can change her voice and look in a significant way so that Battler wouldn't recognize.

Quote:
Why does everyone else rule out Beato disguising as somebody else? As I have drummed on repeatedly, Beato is probably disguising as Kumasawa, who has also lived "remarkably" like Kinzo.
Regardless of how good the visual conditions are it doesn't change the fact it was

night
the middle of a heavy rain
far

also

it was battler alone
it was just for a brief moment


The scenario you imagine on the other hand means that someone was able to maintain such disguise

at close range
in perfect light conditions
consistently over a long time span
in presence of many different people


Your theory isn't impossible, but there's no way the probability is the same
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 08:53   Link #2393
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
Beato is not some metaphor or an idea-Somebody named Beatrice exists on Rokkenjima in 1986. Battler saw her perfectly in the rain! Why do people think there was something obscuring him recognizing her face?!
can't say that for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
There is no way that Battler actually saw a real Beatrice due to There are no more than 17 people on this island. It makes much more sense that he saw someone dressed up as Beatrice. And how could he have seen her perfectly when she is very high up in the middle of a night that is raining and lightning really hard?
can't say that for sure.

i'm not gonna rule out the first one utill somebody says in red that a woman like that does't exist on the island. but i'm not gonna accept it either untill i/you can provide a good theory as to how she fits in the 17 persons limit. it's just possible.
(as for the Kumasawa disguise, Jan-Poo already explained it good enough.)

i think if he really couldn't see her well because of rain/distance it would be mentioned in the story. but than again it's not impossible he just assumed it's Beatrice simply because of the situation (actualy he did ) and if he was already sure he's gonna meet her he wouldn't be like "oh it's beatrice... or maybe not... can't see well, but she kinda looks liek the portrait...or maybe not...", and there's no better explaination than disguise so far.
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 09:03   Link #2394
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Quote:
i think if he really couldn't see her well because of rain/distance it would be mentioned in the story. but than again it's not impossible he just assumed it's Beatrice simply because of the situation (actualy he did ) and if he was already sure he's gonna meet her he wouldn't be like "oh it's beatrice... or maybe not... can't see well, but she kinda looks liek the portrait...or maybe not...", and there's no better explaination than disguise so far.
You forgot the influence Jessica and Kyrie had on him because of their calls. They both told them "Yo Battler, there are magicans witches, demons and other stuff on this island and killing us off. Kanon&Shannon can go all Star Wars. I was beaten by some stupid demon and now my face will be smashed. Oh and George was killed as well^^ Happy Halloween!"
It is only natural that Battler would be a lot quicker to asume that there really is a Beatrice
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 09:09   Link #2395
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
This point is meaningless because your theory doesn't address this problem either. In both cases you need to accept there is a person X who can change her voice and look in a significant way so that Battler wouldn't recognize.



Regardless of how good the visual conditions are it doesn't change the fact it was

night
the middle of a heavy rain
far

also

it was battler alone
it was just for a brief moment


The scenario you imagine on the other hand means that someone was able to maintain such disguise

at close range
in perfect light conditions
consistently over a long time span
in presence of many different people


Your theory isn't impossible, but there's no way the probability is the same
Changing your face and attitude to someone far older is much, much easier than emulating somebody who's supposed to be your age. After all, Battler never did check Kumasawa's breast size.

Kumasawa also has a nasty habit of appearing unexpectedly(Perhaps to refresh her makeup?) and surviving until at least the eighth twilight. Obviously things would be too suspicious if the kindly old lady really survived to the very end, right?
Workworkwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 12:43   Link #2396
Renall
BUY MY BOOK!!!
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
Kumasawa also has a nasty habit of appearing unexpectedly(Perhaps to refresh her makeup?) and surviving until at least the eighth twilight. Obviously things would be too suspicious if the kindly old lady really survived to the very end, right?
Wouldn't the person who killed "Kumasawa" find it awfully odd that she appeared to be someone else? Or the people who find her body? How come the person disguising as her never dies unless in Kumasawa's appearance? The whole notion is just absurd.
Renall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 13:47   Link #2397
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Wouldn't the person who killed "Kumasawa" find it awfully odd that she appeared to be someone else? Or the people who find her body? How come the person disguising as her never dies unless in Kumasawa's appearance? The whole notion is just absurd.
Absurd, but it works. Kumasawa dies of old age before the game, letting Beato worm her way in. She can just prepare her corpse, toss a stake in it, and bam, Kumasawa's been murdered by something occult.

Episode 3 had a wrench thrown in it by Kanon or someone else figuring out Beatrice was disguised as Kumasawa. They struggle, Beato gets away just barely, but she loses the stakes, which the other culprit then tosses in with the murders.

As a little consolation prize, she paints the account number on the parlor door.
Workworkwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 14:16   Link #2398
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
Absurd, but it works. Kumasawa dies of old age before the game, letting Beato worm her way in. She can just prepare her corpse, toss a stake in it, and bam, Kumasawa's been murdered by something occult.

Episode 3 had a wrench thrown in it by Kanon or someone else figuring out Beatrice was disguised as Kumasawa. They struggle, Beato gets away just barely, but she loses the stakes, which the other culprit then tosses in with the murders.

As a little consolation prize, she paints the account number on the parlor door.
Dude Kumasawa is an old woman and the Suit-Beato we see is apparently somewhere around her twenties, according to Kyrie's observations (provided she's not lying). That same woman then just switches back into being old Kumasawa. You'll need good quality makeup to fool people and being able to look that old is as probable as one of the six victims in the shed in EP 1 having good quality makeup in order to fool everyone into thing their face was impounded (seriously did you see those manga images. That can't be faked at all).

Spoiler for EP 5:
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 14:23   Link #2399
Workworkwork
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Dude Kumasawa is an old woman and the Suit-Beato we see is apparently somewhere around her twenties, according to Kyrie's observations (provided she's not lying). That same woman then just switches back into being old Kumasawa. You'll need good quality makeup to fool people and being able to look that old is as probable as one of the six victims in the shed in EP 1 having good quality makeup in order to fool everyone into thing their face was impounded (seriously did you see those manga images. That can't be faked at all).

Spoiler for EP 5:

It's been said it's remarkable she's still alive. And as I mentioned, wanting Battler to feel her breasts, while a supposed joke, could count as a hint.

Just a face mask with a wig could easily hide Beato's hair and make her look sufficiently old. Maybe she wasn't dressed up yet when Kyrie noticed her?

Why would she need to hop out of disguise? Just look horrified, and almost nobody suspects the kindly old lady.
Workworkwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-10, 15:04   Link #2400
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Dude Kumasawa is an old woman and the Suit-Beato we see is apparently somewhere around her twenties, according to Kyrie's observations (provided she's not lying). That same woman then just switches back into being old Kumasawa. You'll need good quality makeup to fool people and being able to look that old is as probable as one of the six victims in the shed in EP 1 having good quality makeup in order to fool everyone into thing their face was impounded (seriously did you see those manga images. That can't be faked at all).

Spoiler for EP 5:
Although it was a magic scene, Kumasawa turning into Virgilia is good enough for a hint of a disguise.
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.