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Old 2011-09-26, 19:29   Link #24621
LyricalAura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
Nope. Krauss wasn't in the dining room by then.
Almost certainly false. While she was on the phone, Natsuhi stated that the current time was 12:07am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
There's a tape recorder in the Ushiromiya house.
If Yasu recordered on it her voice she could have one of the Ushiromiya playing it at the phone... though I'm not sure Yasu would be able to predict Natsuhi's replies and record a tape accordingly.
Of course she wouldn't be able to do that, don't be ridiculous. Natsuhi was on the phone for five or ten minutes. They had a dialogue, it wasn't just the caller talking at Natsuhi.

This kind of argument came out for the EP4 calls from Kyrie and Jessica as well, and it didn't make any sense then either. Maybe people just don't understand how a circa-1980 analog tape recorder works? Even supposing the caller could magically predict the future and know what kinds of things the other person might say, navigating the voice clips fluidly would be impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
There's also the possibility someone else is faking being Yasu. Natsuhi is scared and she had just woken up. She could be tricked easily.
Are you suggesting that multiple people were calling her pretending to be the same person?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
The third possibility is that Kanon isn't really out of the door. His voice and Gohda sound a little shrill. Gohda could have been faking Kanon's voice while Kanon made the call from a nearby phone. As soon as Natsuhi would put down the receiver and go to open the door he would put down the receiver as well and reach the door before Natsuhi were to open it.
Gohda is a cook, not a voice actor. Do you have any evidence that he's capable of imitating Kanon? This has already been said, but it's one thing to disguise your voice and quite another to mimic someone.

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Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
We're told Krauss' eyes and hears are covered so he might not have seen who had kidnapped him.
None of the people in the dining room left the dining room until 1am. Furthermore, no one besides Krauss, Natsuhi, Genji, and the people in the dining room existed in the mansion at midnight, and it was impossible for anyone else to enter the mansion after midnight. Genji went directly back to the waiting room after informing Natsuhi of the phone call. Who are you saying attacked him?
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Old 2011-09-26, 19:43   Link #24622
LyricalAura
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Here's another relevant question: is there any evidence that a phone exists in the dining room?

EDIT: Okay, yes, there is a phone in there. Rosa uses it to call the servants' room in EP3.
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Last edited by LyricalAura; 2011-09-26 at 20:15.
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Old 2011-09-26, 20:17   Link #24623
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
I agree on the fact that fantasy might have a symbolic value. However we don't necessarily know which was in that moment.

In Ep 5 Natsuhi was shown talking with Beatrice when she actually was alone.In Ep 3 Jessica talking with Kanon might be merely her finding strenght through picturing Kanon with her. Also George might have been tricked into believing Shannon was faking her death. Somewhere in the text is said both he and Jessica had wondered if it was possible Kanon and Shannon were faking their death so that scene might be symbolic for his deception.

...

Though I can't really tell what's the truth, merely how I interpretate it...
I think we can say for certain that Jessica met Kanon one more time because she managed to get to another room despite being BLIND.

Quote:
I think the info about the books that are 'real' are the ones exchanged between Ange and Hachijo in that first part, not the ones exchanged between Meta Ange and Featherine after
Given the ambiguity wit hthe difference between Hachijou and Featherine, I think it's atleast worth considering that the information might exist in both. But overall you're right.

Quote:
Are you suggesting that multiple people were calling her pretending to be the same person?
If there's a conspiracy involving framing Natsuhi up, I don't see why not.

Quote:
Here's another relevant question: is there any evidence that a phone exists in the dining room?
From all circumstantial evidence, it seems like there isn't one.
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Old 2011-09-26, 20:18   Link #24624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Almost certainly false. While she was on the phone, Natsuhi stated that the current time was 12:07am.
Natsuhi was informed about the call at 24:00

At 24:00 in the guesthouse, George, Jessica, and Maria were alive and in the second floor cousins' room. Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa were on the first floor.
Natsuhi, Krauss, and Genji were still in a corridor on the second floor of the mansion. All the remaining people were at the family conference in the dining hall. Of course, at that point in time, no murder had occurred. Genji was also alive.


Ergo, unless Genji is lying, there was a call when Krauss still wasn't in the dining room. Natsuhi left him in the corridor and picked up the receiver short after. I don't know how exactly the Ushiromiya house is done but at best Krauss might have reached the sibling while they were in the middle of the call, not at the beginning of it. This if he didn't stop to talk with Genji but immediately went back to the dining room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Of course she wouldn't be able to do that, don't be ridiculous.
I'm merely listing theories. I've re-read the call, for most of it, it would be possible to predict a response. There's also abundance of '...' which might give the illusion of pauses in which Natsuhi had the option to say something. Though, if you read what I wrote, you might have already noticed that while this option is technically possible I don't really believe that's what had happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Maybe people just don't understand how a circa-1980 analog tape recorder works?
I know how it works. I had more than one. I also saw someone using it for a phone prank.
That's why I know it's possible but I deem hard to manage to keep up such a long conversation and to perfectly respect the times so that kanon and Gohda would show up at the right point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Are you suggesting that multiple people were calling her pretending to be the same person?
I'm suggesting that the phone calls could have been done by 2 different people, one being Yasu the other being someone else.

Of course it might be that the 3 phone calls were done by just a person that's not Yasu but then how this person did found out about Natsuhi's baby?
The only ones aware of it should be Natsuhi, Krauss, Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa (Kinzo too but he's dead so he doesn't count...) and they're all apparently on Natsuhi's side. Are there clues there's someone else who knows?
[I'm curious if there are because I've been searching them but I couldn't find them.]
Why should Krauss make the phone calls?
Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo might be acting due to Yasu's request but still I've hard time beliving that's the case.


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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Gohda is a cook, not a voice actor. Do you have any evidence that he's capable of imitating Kanon? This has already been said, but it's one thing to disguise your voice and quite another to mimic someone.
I'm not saying it was a perfect imitation:

Quote:
"......Madam, are you there? Good morning...!"
"It's Gohda and Kanon! Madam, please wake up...!"

The voices coming from across the door were Kanon's and Gohda's.
...The knock had been wild, and the voices a little shrill.

......It seemed that something strange had happened...and that they were agitated.
Natsuhi was likely an emotional mess. The voices came from behind a heavy door and they weren't in the usual tone Gohda and Kanon would use. The name of the ones speaking was provided to her. It was possible for her not to recognize the voices... and merely acknowledge they were Gohda and Kanon merely because they said they were Gohda and Kanon.
She has no reason to think they were lying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
None of the people in the dining room left the dining room until 1am. Furthermore, no one besides Krauss, Natsuhi, Genji, and the people in the dining room existed in the mansion at midnight, and it was impossible for anyone else to enter the mansion after midnight. Genji went directly back to the waiting room after informing Natsuhi of the phone call. Who are you saying attacked him?
I suspect the siblings to gang up on him. They were likely aware Rosa and Co were faking their death. Krauss is a big man. I doubt Yasu could have kidnapped him but Eva and the others could, possibly to force him to agree with them.

They can't really go to the police to have their little gold problem solved and they can't really prove Kinzo is dead without going to the police. Warning the police about Kinzo's disappearance might cause the police to discover the gold and they would be back to square 1.

So they need Krauss to be more compliant. Or his wife for the matter.

Though evidently the plan of scarying Krauss and Natsuhi was hijacked by someone who started killing people instead than letting them merely fake their dead.
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Old 2011-09-26, 21:06   Link #24625
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
This kind of argument came out for the EP4 calls from Kyrie and Jessica as well, and it didn't make any sense then either. Maybe people just don't understand how a circa-1980 analog tape recorder works? Even supposing the caller could magically predict the future and know what kinds of things the other person might say, navigating the voice clips fluidly would be impossible.
My initial though about the scene in EP4 was how the conversations where started up. Something like "Im going to start talking so please dont interrupt me till Im finished.", it was a pretty big flag for me at least. The problem though is that Battler responds more than once and it would be pretty hard to pull it off convincingly. But how the calls where structured could increase the probability of pulling it off.

Example at the very start of Jessica's conversation she goes " Hehehe...they...got me" Battler would immediately know she's hurt, and knowing his personality they can construct a response to his most likely answer. Which will be most likely be "Are you hurt?!","Where are you!? and/or "Ill come help!"

She ignores Battler trough most of the call again till this moment " I...Wonder if your test will be the same as ours...be careful...... and dont get the wrong idea." Talking about the test and getting the wrong idea will most certainly lead to a response like " Wrong idea about what?! The test?! "

It relies on chance, but you can coax replies rather easily if you are controlling the conversation and you know the person you are talking to.

Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2011-09-26 at 21:22.
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Old 2011-09-26, 21:43   Link #24626
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
I'm not really advocating that line of thinking, but there ARE scenes that are real/not-real. That whole scene on a repeated viewing gives me the vibe of trying to cover up Krauss' true nature, and the existence of Kuwadorian, and generally stoke the fires of speculating. In EP1, Krauss is consistently shown as having power and wealth over his siblings when he's actually pretty much worse off than them.

And the conclusion I'm taking from this is that this scene represents Krauss' and Natsuhi's confidence over SOMETHING (that something turning out to represent Kinzo, who is essentially the human equivalent of the gold).
Actually, I was very ambivalent about the scene where Krauss was showing Natsuhi the gold for a long time too. At the end, perhaps the only thing I got from this (and from other parts too) were that Krauss has his own ideas and schemes separate from Natsuhi.

I noticed that how the other siblings basically co-operated as a couple. Eva and Hideyoshi, Kyrie and Rudolf. Rosa and... um.... herself. But with Krauss and Natsuhi they never really seemed to co-operate. It's as if they had their own two factions.

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Okay, again, I never said anything about dismissing things. Chill out.
I am sipping a nice ice chilled lemonade now. 8)

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Good sir, I call bullshit. EP8 Kinzo is the real Kinzo.
I wasn't going to admit it, but I swear EP8 Kinzo seemed the most realistic to me too. 8) I mean, what kind of grandparent wouldn't love to spoil their grandkids? Especially one loaded with money...
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Old 2011-09-26, 21:47   Link #24627
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
My initial though about the scene in EP4 was how the conversations where started up. Something like "Im going to start talking so please dont interrupt me till Im finished.", it was a pretty big flag for me at least. The problem though is that Battler responds more than once and it would be pretty hard to pull it off convincingly. But how the calls where structured could increase the probability of pulling it off.
Doesn't Kyrie respond to things she says?

Either way, the narrative is that someone is trying to kill her right then, so there's no way to make it look realistic without her saying "stfu I need to talk."

Quote:
Example at the very start of Jessica's conversation she goes " Hehehe...they...got me" Battler would immediately know she's hurt, and knowing his personality they can construct a response to his most likely answer. Which will be most likely be "Are you hurt?!","Where are you!? and/or "Ill come help!"

She ignores Battler trough most of the call again till this moment " I...Wonder if your test will be the same as ours...be careful...... and dont get the wrong idea." Talking about the test and getting the wrong idea will most certainly lead to a response like " Wrong idea about what?! The test?! "

It relies on chance, but you can coax replies rather easily if you are controlling the conversation and you know the person you are talking to.
Jessica is more believable, yea.

Quote:
I noticed that how the other siblings basically co-operated as a couple. Eva and Hideyoshi, Kyrie and Rudolf. Rosa and... um.... herself.
Ewwww.

Quote:
I wasn't going to admit it, but I swear EP8 Kinzo seemed the most realistic to me too. 8) I mean, what kind of grandparent wouldn't love to spoil their grandkids? Especially one loaded with money...
I still insist that the world of EP8 is basically Rokkenjima Prime plus Ange. It'd be the ultimate troll.
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Old 2011-09-26, 21:58   Link #24628
Cao Ni Ma
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Yeah, the Kyrie convo is definitely harder to pull out but I still sensed manipulation in it. Things like asking for George and Jessica is easy enough, the person playing the tapes knew he heard the Jessica one first and Jessica clearly told Battler. There is no reason for Battler to lie to Kyrie in this situation.

The hardest part would have been the moment she went something like "Run where?" But even that was set up so it could be replied by something like "Get away from there!" "Move!" "Hide!" "Run!"

It could all far apart of course, If Battler was some sort of super detective that couldn't be deceived he might willfully lie in the conversation to see Kyrie's response. Something like "Dont Worry Kyrie, Jessica and George are fine" then the conversation would go "With me that makes 13" and Battler would certainly figure it out.

Another issue with the call, Maria knew some of the conversation. Specifically that Kyrie told him to believe in the Witch. I guess she's smart enough to infer what the conversation was about despite the little Battler contribute to.


e- Its actually much easier than I remembered. The phone starts with her responding with "Battler" and him talking back. This isnt hard to predict, if you just finished the call with Jessica you'll know Battler will be by the phone answering this one as well. She then says "Its aim is getting more and more accurate. Looks like It'll go right between my eyes next" This creates a sense of panic, its easy to see Battler responding with "Get away from there!" "Move!" "Hide!" or "Run!". Her response is "Where to?"

The next part is Kyrie saying the George/Jessica thing which I already answered. The part after that is "There...Is only one thing... I can advice you on" Theres very few ways you can respond to this, basically "Yes?" "What is it Kyrie?" . The next part is just Kyrie telling him to believe in the fantasies. Knowing Battler you'll have a pretty good idea that he'll go "I dont believe that Kyrie" "Thats a lie" "That doesnt make sense" that happens twice in succession. The next time Battler responds is to this "Ah!" after telling him that she wouldn't survive the next shot its pretty clear that he'll scream "Kyrie! Are you alright!?".

Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2011-09-27 at 06:29.
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Old 2011-09-26, 22:08   Link #24629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
Why build the guesthouse, get everything almost ready, and then not open it? In-story, the reason given was the Krauss didn't have the money to do it. Why didn't Krauss do something along the lines of agree to exchange the gold,
It seems like Yasu didn't want a bunch of strangers poking around on the island. And once it was known there was gold there, I'd bet no one wanted anyone else there either but family. Or the people qualified to solve the epitaph. Or other people who can be paid off and controlled.

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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
Why does Krauss conceal Kinzo's death? In-story, he does it because the books aren't in order, so he can't survive the investigation that would normally ensue. If he were helping Yasu liquidate the gold, why didn't he:
2) support Yasu as epitaph-solver and sole heir to Kinzo, on the condition that Yasu ignore the problems with the finances. (With Yasu as sole heir, none of the other sibs have any authority to investigate the finances.)
It's not like Krauss had information at the very beginning. I don't believe in all his portrayals he had all the information yet. Certainly not when Kinzo died. I believe it was after that when Yasu started executing her plans that she let a few more people into the know than what we're shown.

#2 is what I believe happened, though I have no opinion on the finances. Rather than guarantee non-investigation, it could be merely that Yasu promised him money in return for co-operation.

Anyways, Yasu was the recognized solver of Kinzo's epitaph by GENSAWAJO. Even if he did try to solve it it's not like he gets anything for coming in second. In addition, it was shown that no one else really bothered challenging the Epitaph anymore seriously. Not until Beatrice sent the letter again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
As for the survey, how about
1) Kinzo had bought out the nearest surveying companies some time ago
or
2) When he heard Krauss was surveying the island, Kinzo paid off its head
and told them to falsify the reports around Kuwadorian.
As far as I know, the hotel construction and thus the survey was done after Kinzo's death. Not that the other people knew though...


Either way, it's kinda useless to ask, "Hey, why didn't this happen?" or "If it goes the way you said, it should've happened like this!" It's best to look at the clues from the story and compile the theory from them. If the story mentions the hotel, or a island survey or just that Krauss knew about the gold, then there is some indication that Krauss really knew more than the other siblings.

Basically it's not like coming up with an alternate scenario can really allow us to dismiss what was presented in the story. If we could, then when Yasu inherited the gold she should've left the island and retired somewhere only to write obscure mystery fan fiction and possibly save Battler from... wait.. nevermind. 8)
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Old 2011-09-26, 22:52   Link #24630
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Wow. The board is quite active today.

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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Shannon's part of "Kyrie's group", so she can't die until after Kanon does.
Point taken.

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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
It is not deleting the character which erases parts of her personality, it is giving up on certain things or casting them away which makes the program, which is the character, obsolete.
I once had a dream about killing someone, wondered what it could mean, and looked it up here. I found this:
  • Alternatively, you may be trying to kill an aspect of yourself that is represented by the person killed. Identify the characteristics of this person and ask yourself which of these qualities you are trying to put an end to.
That exact day I had been struggling with a major restructuring of my self-identity.

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Originally Posted by Cao Ni Ma View Post
Altering your voice so its unrecognizable is far different than voice mimicry. I think all of us can change the pitch of our voice to mask it but imitating someone that you dont even hear that much is going to be pretty hard. Without some training it be damn near impossible to trick Battler in a full conversation.Then again Battler is incompetent so maybe he really was tricked.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more plausible it gets. The thing is, it's over the phone. How many times have you mistaken someone on the phone for someone else? I know I've done it quite a lot. There are many times I hear a voice and I'm not sure who it is; and if I was told a lie, I might just believe it. I think Lambdadelta is being our director here; she's indicating that RK07 thinks faked voices over the phone are not implausible.

It's also a very simple answer, which I like. The logistics of getting people to behave in a certain precise way (specifically Kyrie and Jessica making their respective phone calls) that matches a pre-concieved crime-scene are exceedingly complicated. Fake voices really makes things much, much simpler, because it means that the murders could have in fact happened before the phone calls, and it's actually the fantasy story being made to match murders that already happened.

Yeah. The more I think about it, the more obvious it is. What else could "Silent corpses, adorned with fiction" even mean other than "They were already dead before their fictional story was told"? The only question that remains is whether they were impersonated voices or pre-recorded voices (and I strongly lean towards the former).

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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Nothing prevents her from going back on her decision.
I think killing Jessica would. Beatrice can cheat such that Kanon and Shannon can die and revive at her whim as long as their respective love-interest is alive.

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Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post

There's another scene that mention Ange's death and that's the final discussion between Ange and Hachijo at the end... though we don't know if Ange is talking about how she died for revealing the truth to Battler or of how she died on Rokkenjima killed by the Sumadera. It's possible that Hachijo's book contained that dead and not the meta one.
If you ask me it practically says outright that it's about 1998. Especially because of the talk about the skyscraper. From the episode 6 Tea Party:

Ikuko: As thanks for the considerable time you have given to me, .........I will someday write your tale.
Ange: Am I going to appear in another of your forgeries? ...I hope you kill me in a slightly better way this time.
Ikuko: ......Do you...like miracles?
Ange: Are you talking about opportunism? ......I used to hate it, but recently I've become a big fan. Still, I'm picky about what I'll accept, and falling from a skyscraper and ending up unharmed isn't what I'd call a miracle.
Ikuko: Then, one day, perhaps, I will write you a tale that you consider a miracle......

Actually thinking about it it's pretty neat that Ange complains about being burgered to Featherine, but complains about being killed on Rokkenjima to Hachijou.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Gohda is a cook, not a voice actor. Do you have any evidence that he's capable of imitating Kanon? This has already been said, but it's one thing to disguise your voice and quite another to mimic someone.
I would like to point out that although using a recorder in a complex phone conversation is ridiculous, one could easily be effectively employed here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
Natsuhi was informed about the call at 24:00

At 24:00 in the guesthouse, George, Jessica, and Maria were alive and in the second floor cousins' room. Nanjo, Gohda, and Kumasawa were on the first floor.
Natsuhi, Krauss, and Genji were still in a corridor on the second floor of the mansion. All the remaining people were at the family conference in the dining hall. Of course, at that point in time, no murder had occurred. Genji was also alive.
All times mentioned during the trial were in X:00 format, so they were probably all estimated times. Also if they weren't estimated then there would be a logic error with Rosa being in two places at the same time. (Oh wait! There must be multiple people named Rosa! Of course!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
Of course it might be that the 3 phone calls were done by just a person that's not Yasu but then how this person did found out about Natsuhi's baby?
The only ones aware of it should be Natsuhi, Krauss, Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa (Kinzo too but he's dead so he doesn't count...) and they're all apparently on Natsuhi's side. Are there clues there's someone else who knows?
Yasu could just outright tell it to them, which especially makes sense if they are collaborating. I mean, we're already supposing the calls have been made in front of everybody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
Basically it's not like coming up with an alternate scenario can really allow us to dismiss what was presented in the story. If we could, then when Yasu inherited the gold she should've left the island and retired somewhere only to write obscure mystery fan fiction and possibly save Battler from... wait.. nevermind. 8)
How's this?
Yasu had already retired and become Ikuko long before the incident; she wasn't even on the island when it happened.
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Old 2011-09-26, 23:13   Link #24631
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I think killing Jessica would. Beatrice can cheat such that Kanon and Shannon can die and revive at her whim as long as their respective love-interest is alive.
So you agree it's totally cheating.
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Old 2011-09-26, 23:29   Link #24632
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So you agree it's totally cheating.
Here's a hypothetical question, which maybe speaks to mystery construction in general. Is it cheating if she could potentially do it according to her rules, but she never actually does it in a story because it would make reasoning too difficult?
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Old 2011-09-27, 00:02   Link #24633
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Majorly off-topic, but I found this and couldn't bear to let it stay overlooked.

Umineko Mental Health Hotline

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA4qHo8SR1w

It's pretty funny.
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“Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom” and “Superman vs. the Elite”

(Mostly accurate dialogue, but with a little editing to make it mesh better.)
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Old 2011-09-27, 00:13   Link #24634
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Here's a hypothetical question, which maybe speaks to mystery construction in general. Is it cheating if she could potentially do it according to her rules, but she never actually does it in a story because it would make reasoning too difficult?
Well, she actually does, so I'm not sure what point there is to the hypothetical.

But I'd still argue that yes, it is cheating because it's not really a rule at all. "I can do whatever I want and undermine the validity of another mechanic introduced in the story" is basically the absence of appreciable rules.

That and the vast unintended consequences of it, which have been touched upon at various times.
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Old 2011-09-27, 00:25   Link #24635
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
So you agree it's totally cheating.
Well, what do you expect from a witch?
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Old 2011-09-27, 05:30   Link #24636
Cao Ni Ma
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post


Actually, the more I think about it, the more plausible it gets. The thing is, it's over the phone. How many times have you mistaken someone on the phone for someone else? I know I've done it quite a lot. There are many times I hear a voice and I'm not sure who it is; and if I was told a lie, I might just believe it. I think Lambdadelta is being our director here; she's indicating that RK07 thinks faked voices over the phone are not implausible.

It's also a very simple answer, which I like. The logistics of getting people to behave in a certain precise way (specifically Kyrie and Jessica making their respective phone calls) that matches a pre-concieved crime-scene are exceedingly complicated. Fake voices really makes things much, much simpler, because it means that the murders could have in fact happened before the phone calls, and it's actually the fantasy story being made to match murders that already happened.

Yeah. The more I think about it, the more obvious it is. What else could "Silent corpses, adorned with fiction" even mea/n other than "They were already dead before their fictional story was told"? The only question that remains is whether they were impersonated voices or pre-recorded voices (and I strongly lean towards the former).
And again , how many times have you actually confused a voice of two radically different people on the phone once you had a clear picture of the person thats talking to you? That is, you have person A that sounds nothing like person B, you are told that this is person A speaking but its actually person B and you somehow get tricked? This isn't like confusing person A for mystery person X because person A wants to play a prank.

Battler never once mentioned that their voices sounded different. Second, we personally have never heard Kyrie or Jessica so for all we know Jessica has a shrill squeaky voice and Kyrie has a deep seductive voice. So whoever did the mimicry must be a master at it! Third, any case of voice alteration came in the form of just hiding your voice which is completely different than imitating somebodies.

I'd be ok with this theory if there where some concrete evidence of it, right now its in the realm of devils proof. Basically, "Prove to me that Kyrie or anyone else couldn't have done this" because for all I know their voices could very similar. The phone could be totally shitty. Battler could be tricked easily.

e- Also, If Yasu was such a masterful voice actress/mimic then she didn't need to record Maria singing at one point. She could have just acted her out.

Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2011-09-27 at 07:29.
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Old 2011-09-27, 08:06   Link #24637
rogerpepitone
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Is a recording of Kyrie's final phone call that implausible? IIRC, she says at the beginning something like "I don't know how much time I have, so listen and don't interrupt."
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Old 2011-09-27, 08:21   Link #24638
Renall
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She'd still have to say it at some point. I mean if you want to say x or y was recorded, they still have to have done it, and in a (relatively) short period of time. What specifically does that get you?
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Old 2011-09-27, 08:21   Link #24639
Cao Ni Ma
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Thats my point, I edited my previous post with more information and I deconstructed the scene. Its very plausible to make it, but there is still some doubt. I'd think the hardest part to predict now was the "second believe" segment. The one that she goes "Probably" at the start, but its still very vague and could worked with Battler saying anything like "really?" "Thats not possible" "You expect me to believe this?"

I personally like the idea because you can get the people to actually say this as part of the game to trick and have fun with Battler. The culprit then carries out the crimes according to the original design.

e- Renall, what it gets you is some leeway to carry out the scenes. Having the coordination to hold up 2 people in 2 different areas to coerce them to say lies has a chance of not going the way you expect. Kyrie and Jessica both felt like they where going to die, so its easy to think "This bastard is going to kill me!" and tell Battler, "Its X, Run!"

Also, for the most part, I dont like the idea of duress being used. That and dragging corpses around. Its easier to move people when they themselves do it for you, its easier to set up a party in a church when everyone pitches in, its easier for people to lie if they think its a joke.

Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2011-09-27 at 08:37.
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Old 2011-09-27, 09:52   Link #24640
jjblue1
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
I think we can say for certain that Jessica met Kanon one more time because she managed to get to another room despite being BLIND.
Well, from personal experience I can tell you it's not impossible to move in complete darkness and reach another room, though it'll be a little more messier than what we're shown and provided you know the place and manage to stay calm.

Since Jessica is in her own house, once she calm down she can find her way. Sure, she'll likely stumble and knock on doors and will have to walk slowly but she 's the one with the best chances to make it among the survivors.

Nanjo and Eva, although regular guests, would have a much harder time. As for Battler he would probably be completely lost.

Jessica instead, once she calm down, would remember were things are and manage to move around. That's why Kanon's calming presence (or her persuading herself Kanon's spirit is with her) would be important for her to move around.

She needs to calm down to move in the dark.

Also as said before, the thing wouldn't be smooth but EP 5 showed Battler smoothly jumping down a window... to later admit his jump actually wasn't that smooth.

Kanon carried her to a place in which she was used to hide or so she said so, even if left on her own devices, she could have thought up by herself to hide there.

However, on the other side, I like the idea of Yasu faking being Kanon to drag Jessica away for his own ends as it was one of my first theories... so I think I'll keep on thinking it over some more.
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