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Old 2011-11-16, 03:19   Link #25621
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
God, someone needs to buy that book, translate it, and post it.

Though I'm afraid of the answers leading to something really dumb and unsatisfying.
For comparison, 30000 characters is roughly three times as long as Jessica and the Killer Electric Fan.
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Old 2011-11-16, 04:33   Link #25622
Swigun
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Originally Posted by battle22 View Post
um how can erika say I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!???
there's 17 people including her and she say's that she's 18 person with red? HOW?
unless red is a lie . (like everything in this novel)
I always explain that with the human/person thing.
Spoiler for sort of spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-16, 04:41   Link #25623
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
For comparison, 30000 characters is roughly three times as long as Jessica and the Killer Electric Fan.
Fine by me. The task of translation can probably be divvied up; I imagine this thing will be divided into chapters.
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Old 2011-11-16, 05:27   Link #25624
Cao Ni Ma
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I hope it reveals absolutely everything and not just how the murders happened. Outside a few cases, we already know how most of these happened. Devil is in the detail and whatnot.

What I hope we also get is any form of symbolism and little hidden thing in the text that was suppose to be a hint get focused on.
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Old 2011-11-16, 05:34   Link #25625
Wanderer
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Again though, it takes not even a full sentence to handle this "issue," just a clause: "blah blah unlocked the basement, and someone had even wedged an iron bar in the courtyard doors." That may seem like a silly thing to harp on, but it's also a silly thing to ignore, especially since the ep1 scene involving Kanon insinuated that this was an escape route the killer knew about and liked to take. It's not some pedantic "in one sentence while describing the place Battler mentions it has a door to the courtyard" thing, it's "the person who 'killed' Kanon was believed to have escaped through that very door in ep1." Thus, it can easily be assumed to be a relevant door and its apparent non-existence in ep3 becomes suspect.
The door has a lock. RK07 made a confusing description in episode 1 that, when translated, caused the reader to suppose otherwise. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Likewise, we could say Kanon does have a body and End is an improperly-formed forgery, but then we run up against the red text that says that person counts are as they should be (and if Kanon has a physical body, he's a "human" in addition to being a person, and that should change but doesn't).
Wait a minute. How do we know it doesn't change? There's no point in End where the number of humans on the island is verified, only the number of people.

There's also the possibility of shifting definitions in the red text, considering we're getting reds from Bernkastel and Lambdadelta during these scenes, rather than Beatrice.
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Old 2011-11-16, 07:05   Link #25626
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Originally Posted by battle22 View Post
um how can erika say I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!!???
there's 17 people including her and she say's that she's 18 person with red? HOW?
unless red is a lie . (like everything in this novel)
Well i think she is indeed the 18 human. She said that red truth without choking so it must be truth. Remember what happened to Battler in Ep4? He believes that asumu was her real mother but he can't say it in Red truth. Also i think there's a difference between person and human though. Red truth about Person refers to the number of people that the Detective saw in the story(try it, count the number of people that the detective met in Ep 1-4. you will get 18 people) and Red truth about human refers to the human being that located on Rokkenjima.

anyways, I think in EP5 and Ep6 Erika just filled a vacant hole that Beatrice left. by vacant hole i mean The 18th person position. there's a red truth like There are no more than 18 people on this rokkenjima right? from ep3.
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Old 2011-11-16, 09:23   Link #25627
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Btw guys, I have heard a news that says there's an upcoming Umineko volume titled "Umineko no Naku Koro ni Hane ~ Warera no Kokuhaku" which will act as a "confession" or final answer of sorts coming up this winter comifest.

Supposedly it's a big volume with over 30000 japanese fonts in it.

Here's where I found the news, but it doesn't explain too much atm.
But I thought he said he wasn't gonna do that!

Also heh, true culprit. Like we don't already know who that is.
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Old 2011-11-16, 09:31   Link #25628
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Well he kinda recanted at one point saying that he was going to introduce more of how the murders took place and how the illusions where created. I seriously doubt he's going to come out with what actually happened in R.Prime because that would be a different story all together. It is possible I guess but I kinda doubt it.

I wanna see how its presented though, it should be impossible for Yasu to actually confess in a letter what happened in stories that aren't EP1-2. So is Battler doing a confession for both of them? It would be a nice touch that the stories where signed by "Ushiromiya Maria" and have the confession signed by "The Golden Witch, Beatrice"
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Old 2011-11-16, 10:46   Link #25629
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Fine by me. The task of translation can probably be divvied up; I imagine this thing will be divided into chapters.
I'll gladly join the merry group of translators, problem is that I can't get my hands on a real copy until April...so I hope there will be some way to get around that.

And while he said he wouldn't come out and reveal everything in a textbook answer he'll probably do this in a metaphorical manner again...I'm not against it as long as it's substantial and not only Yasu crying about her pitiful fate.
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Old 2011-11-16, 10:47   Link #25630
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A random idea that doesn't exactly push anything further in reasoning.

With the story calling Shannon and Kanon "furniture" all of the time, and that they are basically the "pieces the author uses to make the murders", I think Ryuukishi's idea concerning this was probably something like "<Shkanontrice> is the how dunnit, the weapon of murder in itself, <Yasutrice> is the author, the mastermind above the stories, the real culprit".

I use Yasutrice to refer to Meta-Beatrice and Yasu at the same time, btw.

As for Rokkenjima Prime I still think "ange's story" is a tale like all the others. The tale "where all other tales are only tales but murders really did happen" remains a tale.
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Old 2011-11-16, 11:03   Link #25631
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
And while he said he wouldn't come out and reveal everything in a textbook answer he'll probably do this in a metaphorical manner again...I'm not against it as long as it's substantial and not only Yasu crying about her pitiful fate.
If she wasn't the culprit, then it probably will be very little of that. And if she was the culprit, he better have a damn good justification because holy crap.

I'm hoping it's a mocking account by the "true" villain, whoever that turns out to be, however. The actual person being less important than whether they're a dick. Although there's a few people who would be mind-blowing choices if executed right.

Wait, why do I have any faith in Ryukishi to execute anything right? Nevermind.
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Old 2011-11-16, 11:38   Link #25632
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Oh, the red truth about Erika not changing the number of other people present.

I'd resolved that to myself on the reasoning that Kanon is considered a distinct person by the red truth, even if he doesn't have a body. His body would increase the BODY count, but not the PERSON count. Kanon in his own body is still effectively the same person as Kanon in Yasu's body.

This also makes sense to me because "number of bodies" is a matter Ryukishi blatantly avoided, even though it would've made sense for both Battler and Erika to pursue it further in those times they actually questioned it.
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Old 2011-11-16, 11:42   Link #25633
LyricalAura
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Ryuukishi blog update! The things that will be released at Winter Comiket are as follows:
  • Higanbana, The Second Night. Will contain seven more short stories, and introduce the rest of the school youkai.
  • Ougon Musoukyoku Cross. Ended up being an append disc with new characters. It'll have George, Rosa, Erika, Dlanor, and Dark Battler out of the box. Early in the new year, Will, Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, will also be made available for download, for a total of 19 characters altogether.
  • Umineko Hane. It was going to be something like Tsubasa, but there were only two proper TIPS to include, Forgery No. XXX and Jessica and the Killer Electric Fan, so people should think of it as an omake.
  • Umineko booklet, "Our Confession." A tale and message directly from the true culprit(s) who called themselves Beatrice. Will contain clear answers to every trick and puzzle. Will be about 3 times longer than the usual booklet. Originally it was going to be the main part of Hane, but Ryuukishi decided to release it in an analog form so people could avoid spoilers if they wanted.
  • Extra TIP, "天使17歳 東シ-44a". Ange and Virgilia become involved in an extremely ill-natured world created without restraint. Because of the ill-natured contents, it will be an impossible-to-understand inevitable checkmate for all but the most valorous opponents.
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Last edited by LyricalAura; 2011-11-16 at 11:55.
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Old 2011-11-16, 12:17   Link #25634
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Ryuukishi blog update! [*] Umineko booklet, "Our Confession." A tale and message directly from the true culprit(s) who called themselves Beatrice. Will contain clear answers to every trick and puzzle. Will be about 3 times longer than the usual booklet. Originally it was going to be the main part of Hane, but Ryuukishi decided to release it in an analog form so people could avoid spoilers if they wanted.[/LIST]
.OMG?
im so Fu*** exited for this. btw what does it mean by booklet? is it a VN or not?
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Old 2011-11-16, 12:32   Link #25635
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While I'm totally cool(and actually excited) with getting an answer, I have a strange feeling this will be as disappointing as the sequel to "Mysterious Card" by Moffet.

That said, I think it will probably just be a straight answer to all regular murders, while not touching Rokkenjima prime.

Still, I remember someone suggesting the sealed answers thing for Umineko just a few days ago in this topic, and I thought it was a great idea. Depending on the quality of the answers, this could go a long way into helping the series' overall quality(well, at least for me).
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Old 2011-11-16, 12:36   Link #25636
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
im so Fu*** exited for this. btw what does it mean by booklet? is it a VN or not?
A booklet is a little book, like you can hold in your hand.
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Old 2011-11-16, 12:40   Link #25637
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A booklet is a little book, like you can hold in your hand.
nooooo. . how can we get THAT... why did he not make a VN...Idiot man..
nooo.
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Old 2011-11-16, 12:49   Link #25638
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It will be uploaded to the internet eventually. Just a matter of time. That's how we got the extra TIPS and his mystery vs anti-mystery talk too.

as for it not being a VN. Ryukishi's very stubborn about his anti spoiler stance for newer readers. A VN would get spoiled a lot faster over the internet because of screenshots.
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Old 2011-11-16, 12:52   Link #25639
LyricalAura
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I'm actually looking forward to the extra tip almost as much as the answer booklet, assuming it's what it sounds like and not a goofy comedy story. I wondered what kind of evil mystery Ryuukishi could make if he said "Now you know all my tricks, so that means I can go all-out."
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Old 2011-11-16, 12:59   Link #25640
Renall
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I'm actually looking forward to the extra tip almost as much as the answer booklet, assuming it's what it sounds like and not a goofy comedy story. I wondered what kind of evil mystery Ryuukishi could make if he said "Now you know all my tricks, so that means I can go all-out."
Maybe he'll actually use Shkanon to do something useful!

Oh wait, there's nothing useful you can do with it.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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