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Old 2011-12-11, 15:17   Link #26181
UsagiTenpura
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So basically the oldest looks the youngest.
I forgot if the decades after follows Ikuko's "fake unveiling of Eva's diary" or if it follows the end of Rokkenjima 1986, but at the very least it seems like the gap between the time of the Ikuko/Diary event and Yukari/Toyah's meetings seems way too far apart for Hachijou not to have aged.

Granted, the scenes showing 12 years old Battler in arc 7 shows him with his 18 years old sprite so I'd think it'd be just that, except that Ange said that thing about being ageless.

Sure she could be wrong, but what's Ryuukishi's point of giving her an ageless sprite and having a character say she looks that way?
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Old 2011-12-11, 15:57   Link #26182
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Given her Hanyuu parallels, it would be exactly the sort of thing Ryukishi would do to tease that she's legitimately supernatural.
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Old 2011-12-11, 18:51   Link #26183
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Something random I noticed...
In arc 4 Battler says he likes flat chested loli with long black hair(as a joke).
I realized that might more or less be an accurate description of Yasu.
Well she wouldn't be loli but she probably looks very young given that she's 19 and pretending to be 16.

Btw George is worst then Kinzo. At 17 years old he was jealous of a 12 years old Battler for being the one a (supposedly) 10 years old Shannon hangs with.
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Old 2011-12-11, 19:29   Link #26184
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Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
Btw George is worst then Kinzo. At 17 years old he was jealous of a 12 years old Battler for being the one a (supposedly) 10 years old Shannon hangs with.
Have you realized that he's pure evil yet?
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Old 2011-12-11, 20:09   Link #26185
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Oh I'm getting there Judoh, but there's some things that are missing.
For one why would he murder everyone? Second, how could he?

But Ive been reasoning with Chrono lately how his entire love story with Shannon was very fake/emtpy, he never even mentions a single thing he likes about her, and most of the time talks about money to her or his dreams of having a family. Even Jessica at least tried to make Kanon discover himself in comparison.

You might like to add in your theory tho that in the arc 7 tea party George ask basically "Why would that fun uncle try to kill me?" - if you are right then it was a question we were actually supposed to answer.
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Old 2011-12-11, 21:15   Link #26186
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George is a pretty shady egomaniac creep, but your main point is pretty important: What's his motive for murder?

Now, I'm not saying mass murder. I'm saying murder at all. Remember, assuming "George is a complete dick" also assumes he's not that lovestruck for Shannon, which would make it hard to buy that he'd kill his mother for disapproving... plus she, uh, you know, survived. So that would make him a pretty bad murderer.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2011-12-11, 21:23   Link #26187
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Since we're speculating, how about "George is a complete dick, and also he knows Shannon found the gold"? That would give him a solid reason to kill anybody who tried to solve the epitaph and wasn't in his direct family. He doesn't need to know beforehand, he could just find out at some point during the weekend.
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Old 2011-12-11, 22:41   Link #26188
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Also when you think about it, murdering anyone on closed off island during a storm is a pretty dumb idea. Unless you plan on mass murdering every single person and then escape like Battler did after blowing up the island.

Still that goes down to being pretty ridiculously selfish. George (or anyone else) would have to know they can escape the island, they somehow can succeed in killing everyone else, and about the bomb.

There isn't really many viable scenarios for a prime murder event. If you take a George culprit theory for instance, it'd have been far more practical to kill people outside of the island and only the specific people he wants to murder.

There's quite a jump between murdering someone, and murdering also every possible witnesses.

So as I see it either...
1- It was really an accident
2- It never happened (ange's world is also a story basically)
3- The culprit is suicidal and died failling to kill everyone else
4- The culprit, just like Battler, escaped the island and is still alive but no one ever found him and found some ways or another to evade the red about being dead.
5- Murders occured but it was an accidental situation that got out of hand and those who survived might not understand much of what happened.

None of these are really satisfying.
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Old 2011-12-11, 22:49   Link #26189
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George is a murderer because he's tired of everyone making fat jokes at his expense. Done.
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Old 2011-12-11, 23:07   Link #26190
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A.A He got tired of culprit theories of him and decided "that's what you wanted so I'll do it".

Seriously tho, there's a huge problem with any murderer.

Suppose we take the arc 7 tea party. Why didn't Rudolf and Kyrie just somehow drag Battler to Kuwadorian and let the island be blown up killing everyone else -why actually doing any of the murders yourself if you know there's a bomb, and on the opposite it sounds really dumb to murder someone on a closed off island if you don't know there's a bomb.

Outside of Yasu's scenario, it doesn't seem like someone could have planned this massacre, as if anyone did they'd just have blown up the island (and survived most likely)- or else use a better place then a closed off island during a storm to only murder their specific target and not everyone from Kumasawa to Maria.
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Old 2011-12-11, 23:45   Link #26191
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The problem is there's honestly no good reason to kill anyone on the island except for being so over the top evil that you just get an evil erection off of bloodshed or something. There's really no satisfactory answer, so Ryukishi sort of shot himself in the foot.
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Old 2011-12-11, 23:48   Link #26192
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Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
Suppose we take the arc 7 tea party. Why didn't Rudolf and Kyrie just somehow drag Battler to Kuwadorian and let the island be blown up killing everyone else -why actually doing any of the murders yourself if you know there's a bomb, and on the opposite it sounds really dumb to murder someone on a closed off island if you don't know there's a bomb.
The bomb won't go off until 24:00. The first murders in the EP7 Tea Party were carried out just after the clock passed 24:00. So there was almost a full 24 hours to go. If people notice that 7 of their number are suddenly missing with no explanations, they might go searching. In the process, they might inadvertently end up outside of the blast radius by the time 24:00 arrives. On the off chance that this happens, the bomb will have already gone off and there will no longer be any way to obscure the cause of the survivors' deaths if they kill them. Those survivors will tell the police that Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Rosa suddenly disappeared and they were just looking for them when a massive-ass bomb went off. The police will then confirm that, of those 7, Rudolf and Kyrie seem to have suddenly gone off to a hidden mansion without telling anyone else. The others are still missing and Kyrie and Rudolf are the ones who were with them last. Overall, this restricts the possible excuses they could make heavily. Of course, it's already difficult to get an excuse for why 2/16 people ended up outside the blast radius by coincidence, but that's much easier to pull off by comparison.
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Old 2011-12-12, 00:06   Link #26193
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
The problem is there's honestly no good reason to kill anyone on the island except for being so over the top evil that you just get an evil erection off of bloodshed or something. There's really no satisfactory answer, so Ryukishi sort of shot himself in the foot.
Or 2. No murders occured in Prime, Ange's world is another fiction in itself. This is part of what makes me think this is the most likely solution for now.


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The bomb won't go off until 24:00. The first murders in the EP7 Tea Party were carried out just after the clock passed 24:00. So there was almost a full 24 hours to go. If people notice that 7 of their number are suddenly missing with no explanations, they might go searching. In the process, they might inadvertently end up outside of the blast radius by the time 24:00 arrives. On the off chance that this happens, the bomb will have already gone off and there will no longer be any way to obscure the cause of the survivors' deaths if they kill them. Those survivors will tell the police that Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Rosa suddenly disappeared and they were just looking for them when a massive-ass bomb went off. The police will then confirm that, of those 7, Rudolf and Kyrie seem to have suddenly gone off to a hidden mansion without telling anyone else. The others are still missing and Kyrie and Rudolf are the ones who were with them last. Overall, this restricts the possible excuses they could make heavily. Of course, it's already difficult to get an excuse for why 2/16 people ended up outside the blast radius by coincidence, but that's much easier to pull off by comparison.
That's too one sided logical. Trying to murder a single person can lead in your own death. It's far more of a dangerous chance to take to try to murder everyone else (see what happened in arc 7 tea party: both Rudolf and Kyrie died).

Alternatively, if you murdered an entire city and then nuked it, perhaps you could erase all traces of murders there, but it remains the hard way if your plan was to murder the entire city and you had access to a nuke. Or just wanted to murder a few, but decided to nuke the city to get away with it and still murder everyone else first to ensure no one can escape the city and talk about it.
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Old 2011-12-12, 01:48   Link #26194
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Or 2. No murders occured in Prime, Ange's world is another fiction in itself. This is part of what makes me think this is the most likely solution for now.
Like I suggested before, this is all a story Lion wrote so he could better appreciate how lucky he is.
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Old 2011-12-12, 01:50   Link #26195
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@Usagi: Well, from the start, murdering people is an all-or-nothing risk, but even so... I admit, it does sound ridiculous when you put it that way.

Ah, that invalidates other theories I had too. There's got to be something I'm missing here... To say that "there's absolutely no reason for murders on Rokkenjima at the family conference of 1986" would make it really boring.
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Old 2011-12-12, 02:59   Link #26196
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Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
So as I see it either...
1- It was really an accident
2- It never happened (ange's world is also a story basically)
3- The culprit is suicidal and died failling to kill everyone else
4- The culprit, just like Battler, escaped the island and is still alive but no one ever found him and found some ways or another to evade the red about being dead.
5- Murders occured but it was an accidental situation that got out of hand and those who survived might not understand much of what happened.

None of these are really satisfying.
#5

Quote:
Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
Suppose we take the arc 7 tea party. Why didn't Rudolf and Kyrie just somehow drag Battler to Kuwadorian and let the island be blown up killing everyone else -why actually doing any of the murders yourself if you know there's a bomb, and on the opposite it sounds really dumb to murder someone on a closed off island if you don't know there's a bomb.
Because the bomb only goes off at midnight. Everyone else would wake up in the morning and realize something was wrong when half their relatives were missing. They would become a very risky contingency. For example, Kyrie and Rudolf wouldn't know this, but if they left Genji alone he would end up checking the gold room, find everyone dead, and flip the bomb switch off. K&R would be fucked.

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Outside of Yasu's scenario, it doesn't seem like someone could have planned this massacre, as if anyone did they'd just have blown up the island (and survived most likely)- or else use a better place then a closed off island during a storm to only murder their specific target and not everyone from Kumasawa to Maria.
Also, with 1986 technology no one could have planned for the weather more than ~3 days in advance.
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Old 2011-12-12, 03:19   Link #26197
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To say that "there's absolutely no reason for murders on Rokkenjima at the family conference of 1986" would make it really boring.
And why should the tragic deaths of 18 people be entertaining to you, anyway?
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Old 2011-12-12, 03:31   Link #26198
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And why should the tragic deaths of 18 people be entertaining to you, anyway?
Because it is. Trauma and tragedy are both interesting and entertaining. Always have been.
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Old 2011-12-12, 04:20   Link #26199
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Because it is. Trauma and tragedy are both interesting and entertaining. Always have been.
I agree if you are referring to a fictional work.
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Old 2011-12-12, 05:06   Link #26200
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Because it is. Trauma and tragedy are both interesting and entertaining. Always have been.
But why SHOULD it be? Ethically, what gives you the right to expect entertainment from a bloody massacre? Why would people's lives be your evening leisure, and why should their tragedy be "fun" for you? It tramples on their memories and dignity to make them your play things, shouldn't it?

By all means, seek the truth. But don't seek a truth that you only want because it amuses you.
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