AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-01-03, 22:34   Link #26881
kanketsu
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Now that you said it, I now wish Ryukishi actually distributed different versions of the booklet. Packaged inside bottles. :lol:

That brings up an idea ... anyone up to make forgeries of Our Confession?

(Somehow I can hear Hanyuu saying, "Oniii! Akumaaa!!!)
kanketsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-03, 23:02   Link #26882
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Hopefully whoever uploaded that text intends to put up the rest and we're just waiting on them to type it. I've also posted a request in the C81 thread on /jp/ to see if anyone can rescan it, so we'll see what happens.

By the way, "17-year-old Angels" is up on the wiki too. Just from a quick skim, it appears to be about Ange and Virgilia setting up a BL manga circle for Comiket together and making the other characters suffer through their bizarre pairing fantasies. o_O

EDIT:
Besides what haguruma mentioned, there's also a new bit where Piece-Beatrice is threatening Krauss and Natsuhi at the beginning. She tells them that there are only two ways to avoid the explosion: 1) disable the timing device using a method only she knows, or 2) escape to the far side of the island through the underground tunnel in the gold room. The tunnel is sealed with a locked iron grid which Piece-Beatrice has the key to.

Also, Beatrice tells the 1st twilight victims: "Don't take this the wrong way. You haven't done anything wrong. If you want to blame someone, blame that man who threw away his promise for six long years."
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."

Last edited by LyricalAura; 2012-01-03 at 23:24.
LyricalAura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-03, 23:30   Link #26883
naever
Restless Ghost
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
By the way, "17-year-old Angels" is up on the wiki too. Just from a quick skim, it appears to be about Ange and Virgilia setting up a BL manga circle for Comiket together and making the other characters suffer through their bizarre pairing fantasies. o_O
Hmm... Well, at least that explains the Ange&Virgilia ending in OMK X/Cross.

We already knew about Virgilia's love of crack from that other TIP and Ange... Somehow, I'm not surprised. She's more and more like Battler by the second. Weird catchprases, slaughter of english, finger pointing (in the anime, at least), suicidal tendencies, and now, pervertedness. Onichan must be proud.
naever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-03, 23:33   Link #26884
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by naever View Post
Onichan must be proud.
I'm sure he would be, if she weren't slashing him with his evil twin.
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."
LyricalAura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 00:05   Link #26885
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post

Also, Beatrice tells the 1st twilight victims: "Don't take this the wrong way. You haven't done anything wrong. If you want to blame someone, blame that man who threw away his promise for six long years."
Sure, why should I blame the 19 years old psyhco girl who's blackmailing me and who's planning mass murder? I'll blame the 12 years old kid who forgot a promise.

Beatrice here's got quite some convincing argument...
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 01:48   Link #26886
Nanaya27
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
So time to stop lurking and post my theory on Yasu's motive. I've been honing this on gamefaqs for a bit, so if anyone browses the Umineko topics over there they probably have seen this stuff before. Spoiler'd for length, and also minor spoilers for Our Confessions.

Spoiler for R-prime motive:


Spoiler for stories/game board motive:


Well this is my interpretation. I know it probably seems silly to put so much thought into the motive for the stories when you can hand-wave everything with meta-motives, but I feel it's an important part of the mystery nonetheless, and I wanted to find a decent motive for the real murder interpretation of R-prime. And part of this is probably just thinking for the sake of thinking.

Despite typing so much, I still feel like I haven't quite explained all the thoughts I have well enough, and there are still some things I'm wondering about. But there's really nothing to be gained form holding it back, so I'll post it now.
Nanaya27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 02:31   Link #26887
haguruma
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 29
Send a message via ICQ to haguruma Send a message via MSN to haguruma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanaya27 View Post
Despite typing so much, I still feel like I haven't quite explained all the thoughts I have well enough, and there are still some things I'm wondering about. But there's really nothing to be gained form holding it back, so I'll post it now.
Well, it's actually something I agree with quite a bit.
If you consider the idea that EP1 and 2 as well as Our Confession were written by Yasu, quite a bit can be deduced regarding her idea of the characters, especially if you apply the logic told in Our Confession to the actions of characters in those Episodes.
Dlanor basically flat out tells us that what created the tragedy was that:
Spoiler for Our Confession:
haguruma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 02:38   Link #26888
Jaden
Witch of Betrayal
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Age: 26
"Hideyoshi is Eva's wife" Haha. But honestly, good post Nanaya.

The "everyone is guilty" approach is unorthodox to the point of being unacceptable in a mystery, but in Umineko it makes sense. It explains how everyone in the Golden Land has such equal feelings, none of them blaming each other, everyone feeling responsible and sorry for Ange. The story has taken special care to introduce every character's shortcomings that could lead them to doom, and the situation on the island is so volatile that someone could actually be getting shot. Then it snowballs from there and in the end things are so messy that Yasu looks like a saviour with her bomb switch.

There are other options that I've thought about and mostly dismissed, like... accident explosion (lame), a single culprit (not enough evidence), the story authors trying to cover up for somebody (convoluted).

It's still difficult to confirm the theory, because we know so little of the key parts of R-Prime.

1. Who knows about bomb switch and who flips it? (plenty of evidence that Yasu controls this)
2. Who solves the epitaph, and do they stay quiet about it? (infinite variations)
3. Why do things get out of hand? (plenty of evidence there's a murder mystery game, trying to hide Kinzo's death, 10 tons of gold needing to be shared)
4. Who is the first one to actually commit a murder and how? (infinite variations)
5. How is it that Battler and Eva end up escaping in seperate ways, and nobody else? (Battler gets escorted out by Yasu it seems, other than that infinite variations)
6. Why are Battler and Eva hiding information? (to avoid prosecution and they don't want Ange to think her family are like something out of Darwin Awards.)
__________________

Last edited by Jaden; 2012-01-04 at 03:16.
Jaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 02:43   Link #26889
Oblivion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Was there any particular reason for Ikuko writing stories about Rokkenjima other than the fact that she was an author? I don't really see anything she would have to gain from writing those stories. She says that she's reached the truth, but she doesn't really want to reveal it. She writes the stories giving out some bits of it but not the whole thing.

In the end, she even helps bring down the interest in the Rokkenjima explosion. If she was going to do that anyways, what was the reason for writing out the forgeries?
Oblivion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 03:02   Link #26890
kanketsu
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
I've been scratching my head for the past few days trying to find out what "Golden Land" actually means. Reading nanaya's view; that helps clear up my confusion.

Not to try to discount the proposed concept, just want to check if I get this right ...

Spoiler for Golden Land:
kanketsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 03:14   Link #26891
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Quote:
Was there any particular reason for Ikuko writing stories about Rokkenjima other than the fact that she was an author? I don't really see anything she would have to gain from writing those stories. She says that she's reached the truth, but she doesn't really want to reveal it. She writes the stories giving out some bits of it but not the whole thing.

In the end, she even helps bring down the interest in the Rokkenjima explosion. If she was going to do that anyways, what was the reason for writing out the forgeries?
Keep in mind she doesn't write about Rokkenjima until she finds Battler/Toya. Before that, she wrote other mystery stories.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 04:01   Link #26892
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Okay, since people are assuming that Our Confession was written by or applies to Yasu, I'd better point a couple of things out.
  • It contains references to the meta-world arguments and red truth.
  • It contains references, on both the board and meta levels, to characters that were first introduced in Tohya and Ikuko's forgeries.
  • That bit about Beato's heart being filled with rage against those who have no love, and not being able to see that they did have love, and all of the "1 in a 1000 readers" stuff, all sound very much like EP6 Ikuko's attitude toward her readers.
I'm not saying you can't work around it, but it's pretty suggestive to me.
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."
LyricalAura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 04:30   Link #26893
Akuryou
*cackle* *cackle*
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Porto Alegre, Brazil
Send a message via MSN to Akuryou Send a message via Skype™ to Akuryou
So, basically, what you're implying is that the "meta world" is Tohya struggling with his "Battler memories" discussing with Ikuko (who is represented by Meta-Beatrice) while writing their books?

Just making sure I'm following the same logic line as you.
Akuryou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 04:38   Link #26894
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
Okay, since people are assuming that Our Confession was written by or applies to Yasu, I'd better point a couple of things out.
  • It contains references to the meta-world arguments and red truth.
  • It contains references, on both the board and meta levels, to characters that were first introduced in Tohya and Ikuko's forgeries.
  • That bit about Beato's heart being filled with rage against those who have no love, and not being able to see that they did have love, and all of the "1 in a 1000 readers" stuff, all sound very much like EP6 Ikuko's attitude toward her readers.
I'm not saying you can't work around it, but it's pretty suggestive to me.
I'd point out that the person who wrote Our Confession was on speaking terms with Dlanor, specifically.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 08:15   Link #26895
Nanaya27
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanketsu View Post
I've been scratching my head for the past few days trying to find out what "Golden Land" actually means. Reading nanaya's view; that helps clear up my confusion.

Not to try to discount the proposed concept, just want to check if I get this right ...

Spoiler for Golden Land:
Essentially, yes. I'd call that the "trick" explanation. Though it's important to note that it's not just suicide and going to heaven. The cat box matters because it allows conflicting dreams to coexist. Suicide and the afterlife wouldn't appeal to Yasu nearly as much without that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
In the end, she even helps bring down the interest in the Rokkenjima explosion. If she was going to do that anyways, what was the reason for writing out the forgeries?
My views on Ikuko's actions are like this: at first, she's just like any other forger, in it for the fun. But because she lives with Tohya, she's able to gain a much greater understanding and also able to to come into direct contact with someone involved and see how he feels about it. It's my opinion that Tohya stopped Ikuko from revealing Eva's diary, whether it was by him asking her directly, or simply that living with him and growing close over 12 years changed something in her and she had a last-minute change of heart. You know, the whole deal about how Featherine in her old age realized that not knowing is more precious than knowing.

As for the whole deal with Ikuko & Tohya and the metafiction angle, I have a bunch of thoughts on that as well, but they're hardly organized into a single coherent theory.

Spoiler for length and shotgun logic:
Nanaya27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 10:55   Link #26896
Azule
Golden Witch
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The Future Gadget Lab
Send a message via AIM to Azule Send a message via MSN to Azule Send a message via Skype™ to Azule
After reading our confessions, something jumped out at me.
Spoiler:
__________________
A not-so-average Umineko gameboard
Azule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 10:59   Link #26897
ndqanh_vn
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azule View Post
After reading our confessions, something jumped out at me.
Spoiler:

Well, I don't find anything strange in it...In the second twilight of EP2, Kanon's body is never found as far as I remembered, and I don't think Yasu die in this...
ndqanh_vn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 11:49   Link #26898
Drifloon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
It's true that Kanon's body was found, but Beatrice said he was dead in red to make it look like Jessica and Kanon were the victims of the second twilight.

It's actually a very interesting point that this game seems to use the same person for two twilights. Strange.
Drifloon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 12:26   Link #26899
RedKey
天界の異端審問官
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
I think we probably shouldn't read too much into it. After all, correct me if I'm wrong, Eva and Hideyoshi in EP1 were both the 2nd and 4th Twilight, they had the stakes buried in their heads.
__________________
RedKey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 12:35   Link #26900
Wanderer
Goat
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanaya27 View Post
~~~
I like your analysis (although I don't necessarily agree with all of it). What do you think of Ikuko=Yasu?

----------------

About the Our Confessions 2nd Twilight. haguruma covered it already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Spoiler for Our Confession:
---------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedKey View Post
I think we probably shouldn't read too much into it. After all, correct me if I'm wrong, Eva and Hideyoshi in EP1 were both the 2nd and 4th Twilight, they had the stakes buried in their heads.
EP1 4th Twilight was Kinzo. Until Our Confessions, the 2nd Twilight was interpreted in such a way that there were no restrictions on how to kill.
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.