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Old 2012-03-19, 14:17   Link #28181
Renall
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
Is it possible that Piece!Shannon was innocent ... and then ... committed later murders, in order to protect the innocence of the FIRST murderer? I guess I can't actually deny that with anything.
Imagining the George Culprit concept, it's possible to believe Shannon could have killed no one other than George and herself. George could have done the First Twilight. The Second Twilight could have been faked or Jessica killed later, if she was killed at all; there are two references to "Jessica's corpse" and no actual confirmation of death, and since dead doesn't mean dead in Umineko "corpse" certainly doesn't have to mean "biologically dead body." It's clear Nanjo and Kumasawa were meant to vanish, not necessarily to turn up dead where they did, and nothing at all proves Shannon had to be responsible for that. Gohda does not necessarily have to have been killed by Shannon; George was also present.

So one could imagine the scenario as: Shannon-as-Beatrice sets up the party and the adults play dead. George kills them for real. Jessica's death is faked to sniff him (or the culprit, if unknown to Shannon) out, and to scapegoat Kanon to see what George does when he has someone to deflect blame to. Nanjo and Kumasawa's "death" is also faked, but they are later genuinely killed. George, Gohda, and Shannon go to Natsuhi's room, where George kills Gohda by surprise. Shannon, realizing he's the culprit, kills him. She then arranges to kill herself to create an "impossible" crime scene. No one else dies after this moment, and if Jessica remains alive, she doesn't make contact with anyone.

Hell, maybe it was Jessica up in Kinzo's study, where she went to hide after her "death." She tells Battler everything she knows, but due to missing details and Shannon's fake room setup, Battler concludes that the whole story is impossible and gives up. Or maybe he does figure it all out and acknowledges the "magic" behind the ploy. I don't know, don't ask me!
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Originally Posted by Kealym View Post
The EP2 first twilight was just a random example though - my point is that despite most of the characters seeming like mostly decent enough people, we have a lot of corpses to account for, so somebody on the gameboard is being presented as capable of some rather wacky antics. As for it being the "right" answer, most of what we've been given leads to some form of "Shannon and Kanon" being the "intended" answer. Of course other options will be functional, too, but wasn't this covered a bunch in EP5, with the cheese riddle, and anti-Natsuhi conspiracy?
Think about the cheese riddle again though. At its heart, it has two answers:
  • The answer that was intended by the puzzle creator.
  • The answer you can actually reach given the parameters of the puzzle as written.
These answers are different, but both right; the only way to know which of the two is specifically correct is to assume certain unrevealed details, such as the physical shape of the cheese.

A more complex reformulation would be something like: How many times can you fold a piece of paper? The answer ranges anywhere from "zero" to "an infinite number of times" depending on what you assume the piece of paper looks like and is made of, what shape it is, and how you define a "fold" (in half was never stated!). If you know that I meant a piece of ordinary 8.5" x 11" notebook paper, you know the answer I wanted, and that answer is right. But assume other parameters from unknown information and you get a different answer which is also right.

Now apply this to ep1-4. Understanding Beatrice's heart means knowing she wants to take the blame, ergo "Shkanon dunnit" is the intended answer. However, it may well be that there are other, unintended answers which are also correct, and not in the pseudo-correct sense that ep5's Natsuhi conspiracy was. My point is that one of these "unintended" answers may well be Ryukishi's or even Yasu's "intended" answer, in that it more closely reflects the truth. If you don't believe Yasu is really guilty in R-Prime, but you do believe she wants to scapegoat herself, wouldn't it be interesting if she also put the truth in there and it works as a solution just as well as the one she was expecting people like Will to reach?

It's not like she'd be disappointed in Will for figuring out the answer as she'd meant it. But maybe she subconsciously made sure the true culprit could also be fingered, depending on how you look at it.
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Old 2012-03-19, 14:28   Link #28182
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Hmm... now that you say it... that would mean that "Clair" had no influence on the events...

So this would mean that Clair =/= Beatrice, because Beatrice could control George's actions as long as they were not "out of character".

...... Ahhhhhhh now i get it! Clair is the Piece!Yasu from the games! She has nothing to do with Beatrice's Meta-Battle with Battler. This would explain why she seems so different and why not simply Beatrice was used instead of Clair.
Clair is the personification of Beatrice of the first four games. I am not sure about Meta Beatrice. However I do think that Claire is the sum of Shannon, Kannon, and Beatrice from the games into one. Remember she kept saying "we are one yet many"

Although I do consider that Claire is the closest thing to a complete Yasuda in the whole games. Yasuda is split into three different people in the games, and through three people we see different aspects of Yasuda.

Although I do question if she has nothing to do with Beatrice's Meta-Battle with Battler since she asked the same questions as Meta Beatrice in the end of game 4. Right to the part where she said "who am I".

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Well, it's possible, I guess. And the trick does feel more rewarding if it involved less blatant lying. However, I always took the red Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist! rather generally, as something like a fake corpse seems more ... complex than Beatrice usually goes for. Like how all of the locked door situations are very simple, and never involved peculiar tricks with wires or string or something.
I remember some wires or string tricks from Detective Conan. Some of those were pretty insane as I really doubt that any normal person could work them out before the episode was over. I certainly couldn't.

Quote:
What with the author theory, that was a real standout line. One the one hand, he's kinda right - if we take her confession to the adults in EP7 to be true-ish, she was prepared to lose by coincidence or bad luck. At the same time, since the entire thing is written .... well, it's like, George will surely never enter that shed, just like the police will never come. If the author doesn't want to take the story that way, after all.
Well works of fiction are written by someone. In the context of the story that doing the shed trick was risky at least that should be the intent by Ryukishi.

Also about EP7. Ryukishi mentioned in the interview that throwing the bottles might have been plea for help to stop her from doing the crime. Although given that Meta Beatrice seems to play with the intent/hope to lose and by then end of EP4 begs that Batter finds her heart and kills her by crushing it.

The thing I do find noteworthy is that Beatrice wanted Battler to be able to solve her riddles and understand her heart but she also wanted to die. Also all of the piece Beatrice/Yasuda that it seems that all of them die in the end to due explosives. As well that the lack of caring about what happens to her in tea party of EP7. Even in the end of EP8 Beatrice attempts to kills herself by drowning.

So I do think that EP7 that she was prepared to lose. It seems that both meta and piece Beatrice seems to display certain level of suicidal tendency. That regardless if Battler discovered the truth or not, that she going to kill herself.

Batter compared Beatrice's riddles to a love letter but isn't a suicide note better comparison?
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Old 2012-03-19, 15:52   Link #28183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone
Hmm... now that you say it... that would mean that "Clair" had no influence on the events...

So this would mean that Clair =/= Beatrice, because Beatrice could control George's actions as long as they were not "out of character".

...... Ahhhhhhh now i get it! Clair is the Piece!Yasu from the games! She has nothing to do with Beatrice's Meta-Battle with Battler. This would explain why she seems so different and why not simply Beatrice was used instead of Clair.
I don't think so. Clair is nothing more than an image used to represent Yasu. The name Clair is only given to her Meta-Incarnation, while that same image on the gameboard is Yasu acting as Beatrice, the Lady in White that Haunts Rokkenjima. Clair speaks on the Behalf of Yasu, the real Yasu. Not a simply a piece of Yasu.
Yasu wrote Legend and Turn and then placed them into bottles and threw them out to sea. Therefore, even Meta-Beatrice is a part of Yasu. In a sense, she did keep George from entering the shed on her own. Meta-Beatrice is Yasu's wish to be with Battler again.

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Originally Posted by goldendust
Batter compared Beatrice's riddles to a love letter but isn't a suicide note better comparison?
That's interesting to think about. Maybe it's both? "I love you, but I'm such a pitiful creature that no one will be happy if they end up with me."
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Old 2012-03-19, 16:19   Link #28184
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Yasu wrote Legend and Turn and then placed them into bottles and threw them out to sea. Therefore, even Meta-Beatrice is a part of Yasu. In a sense, she did keep George from entering the shed on her own. Meta-Beatrice is Yasu's wish to be with Battler again.
How do you know the message bottle stories are Legend and Turn?
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Old 2012-03-19, 16:32   Link #28185
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Although I do question if she has nothing to do with Beatrice's Meta-Battle with Battler since she asked the same questions as Meta Beatrice in the end of game 4. Right to the part where she said "who am I".
Ohh... now Clair is not Piece!Yasu or Beatrice... she is the personification of the 10th twilight, "THE BOMB"!

jokes aside, i cannot see Clair as the full Yasu. I think in the tips she was described as an "actor", a piece created and/or placed by Bernkastel. Outside of the tales she is dull and has no personality at all. She is just a "shell" for the memories of Yasu. Well... for example you could compare her to Tohya with Battler's memories, as that is a similar situation.



If Ikuko=Yasu is correct, then Beatrice's death is nothing more than leaving the identity of Beatrice behind, as she was only created for her existence on Rokkenjima. But if you don't believe in Ikuko=Yasu, then this discussion has no grounds to be continued on, so i leave it like that for now.


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Yasu wrote Legend and Turn and then placed them into bottles and threw them out to sea. Therefore, even Meta-Beatrice is a part of Yasu. In a sense, she did keep George from entering the shed on her own. Meta-Beatrice is Yasu's wish to be with Battler again.
Let's assume you are right and it is not like Renall implied... even then you forget that "Legend o.t.g.W." =/= EP1 and "Turn o.t.g.W." =/= EP2.
The meta scenes (excluding the on-gameboard magic scenes) are most likely NOT part of the forgeries. Meta-Beatrice is not part of the story. She is probably either the "forgotten memories" of Tohya, or she is "played" by Ikuko (in this case whether Ikuko is Yasu or not is irrelevant, as Ikuko=RandomStranger could also just "play" Beatrices role). Also your theory disregards the fact, that Banquet and Alliance were released many years later after the incidents by 19^9, which are also part of Meta-Beatrice's game with Meta-Battler, so it doesn't make any sense...

Last edited by GreyZone; 2012-03-19 at 16:45.
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Old 2012-03-19, 16:54   Link #28186
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Jumping around at random again, but what are the current theories about the burnt corpse? In EP1, unless one of the FT victims happened to have polydactyly, this would have to be either a fake corpse, someone else's corpse, or Kinzo's corpse, somehow preserved for over a year. All three of these alternatives require a lot of planning, and some person or group of people must have planned for them to be there on the island that day (though they may not have planned to burn the body).

However, does it really make sense for Natsuhi or Genji to do any of these things? Put it this way: in what situation would it be better to have a fake corpse than to pretend Kinzo left on his own?
If he just disappeared, it's still very possible that no one on the island knows what happened to him. But if a burnt corpse is found? Sure, he tripped and fell into the furnace, and his sixth toe caught on the door, slamming it shut on him. That the cause of his success would be his undoing, truly a sad tale. Especially when Natsuhi and the servants get arrested for having the only keys to the room with the only furnace on the island.
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Old 2012-03-19, 17:20   Link #28187
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Put it this way: in what situation would it be better to have a fake corpse than to pretend Kinzo left on his own?
The situation where you're constructing a mystery and you don't want a loose suspect running around who can be easily blamed for everything.

The red truth in EP4 ruled out fake corpses and misidentification, so we know up front that in the stories, it really was Kinzo's corpse. On the other hand, that doesn't mean Yasu had to use the real corpse in Prime. If you look at other stuff she's done, her plans didn't really require her to actually murder anyone in Prime, but she converted all of the fake deaths into real ones in her stories, so she could have done the same thing here.

Of course, she wouldn't normally know she needed Kinzo's intact corpse that far ahead of time, but since Piece-Yasu is a metagaming witch, that isn't really a problem for her. She can just have Genji help her yoink the corpse and store it somewhere after Natsuhi orders them to dispose of it.
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Old 2012-03-19, 17:30   Link #28188
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Natsuhi clearly has neither a practical nor an emotional reason to burn Kinzo's body. As you said, she can't easily get away with it (even assuming there is a real murderer, it may be possible for the police to demonstrate that the real murderer could not have had access to the furnace), and I don't think she would want to (she seems a bit too emotionally invested in all of this to simply burn Kinzo's body).

Furthermore, assuming the truth of the Kinzo conspiracy, Natsuhi gains nothing by having Kinzo turn up dead, even in a situation that allows her to "get away with" concealing his death. The goal is, after all, to hide his death until an opportune moment. There is no indication that the 1986 conference is an opportune moment, at least not for her.

If anything, the best motive for burning the corpse - if it is indeed Kinzo's corpse, which is hard to say - would appear to be exposing his death. It's not strictly necessary that it be known that Kinzo has been dead for a while; merely proving him dead at any time creates the inheritance problem. Doesn't matter if he was alive up to the moment he was shoved in there, ultimately. And again, this scenario in no way benefits Natsuhi.

So I see no reason Natsuhi would want to preserve the body. Practically, Natsuhi has nothing to gain. Sentimentally, preserving the body is somewhat at odds with hiding the body; thus, it requires some degree of desecration of his corpse, as does retrieving it in order to destroy it.

But to believe the corpse is just a prop would be stranger still, regardless of who came up with it. After all, calling attention to Kinzo's death requires you produce a living Kinzo thereafter to show it was all a hoax. Unlike the living people on the island faking their deaths, no one is actually capable of making a living Kinzo appear unless he is in fact alive. Assuming he isn't, anybody utilizing a fake or substitute corpse is incapable of producing a living Kinzo and thus no matter what happens his death will be exposed. The first question anyone will ask in response to "The corpse was a substitute fake designed to make it look like Kinzo was burned in the furnace" will be "Oh. So where is the real Kinzo?" There are only three responses to this:
  • "I don't know." This is not very credible, and will raise immediate suspicion.
  • "I know, but I'm not telling you." This will not hold up well for the police.
  • "I know, and he's dead." This doesn't help you if your goal in explaining the substitution was to insinuate he's alive.
Of course if your goal was to force this very issue, then it doesn't work against your purposes at all. Especially if you're not the one in a position to explain Kinzo's disappearance.
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Old 2012-03-19, 17:38   Link #28189
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I don't think that the corpse was fake in prime. After all:
"I guarantee that this is Ushiromya Kinzo's Corpse." This statement won a fight where red truth was useless because there was no backing up in the human world. It just has to have some kind of value to be able to satisfy that blue truth.

Also there is a good reason to expose it. If Natsuhi (and/or Krauss) is one of the accomplices of Yasu, then the money problem is resolved and Kinzo's illusion is no longer necessary.
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Old 2012-03-19, 17:48   Link #28190
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I don't think that the corpse was fake in prime. After all:
"I guarantee that this is Ushiromya Kinzo's Corpse." This statement won a fight where red truth was useless because there was no backing up in the human world. It just has to have some kind of value to be able to satisfy that blue truth.
But that statement was made about a game board, not Prime. And in that situation it was equivalent to saying "I claim this is Kinzo's corpse, all these witnesses will agree with me, and you can't prove me wrong."

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  • "I don't know." This is not very credible, and will raise immediate suspicion.
  • "I know, but I'm not telling you." This will not hold up well for the police.
  • "I know, and he's dead." This doesn't help you if your goal in explaining the substitution was to insinuate he's alive.
Of course if your goal was to force this very issue, then it doesn't work against your purposes at all. Especially if you're not the one in a position to explain Kinzo's disappearance.
How about: "I know, and he's dead, and here's what happened. But we're going to say he disappeared because it would be a shame if something happened to this enormous pile of money."
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Old 2012-03-19, 18:25   Link #28191
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When playing EP1 demo. I figured that the culprit had Kinzo's body slowly burnt in order to lure them into entering Kinzo's study. Since they got a key from the corpse and thus would think that the safest place would be Kinzo's study since they have both of the keys. We see later that the culprit had a plan if they entered the study.

As for the other episodes, that motive does not really apply. However if EP7 tea party is any indication is that Beatrice had different plans on how to conduct the murders. Maybe using the corpse to lure them into the study was just one of them.

Although the culprit or Kanon/Shannon/Beatrice just removed the body from the game so people do not suspect Kinzo instead of of the illusion of the witch.

If a letter that has Kinzo's head seal on it appears, creepy occult murders occur based on pattern of the epitaph that Kinzo made and Kinzo has no solid alibi for any of the murders. It is incredibly easy to suspect him if you do not know he was already dead.


Speaking of suspecting Kinzo, did anyone find it odd that Rosa never seems to suspect Kinzo at all in EP2? I mean she was willingly to blame Kanon becasue there was no corpse but not the far more suspicious Kinzo? That does imply that Rosa knew for sure that Kinzo was dead
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Old 2012-03-19, 18:47   Link #28192
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Well, who could say? Why bother having Rosa make a claim at all, since she already has six whole people who'll claim to see Beatrice, by default, anyways?
The only reason for which I can think it was useful to have one of the siblings saw Beato was because they said it when Battler was around and they would be more trustworthy than the servants (who could have been told by 'Kinzo' to say a lie). Maybe the only point of having Kyrie too see her was that Battler wouldn't doubt Kyrie while he might not be so sure about Rosa?

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I think the hard part is getting Hideyoshi to lie about Shannon being in the shed.
Honestly I though Hideyoshi was bribed. My problem is that either he thought the other corpses were fake or he was willing to cover up a murder for money...
I can understand him to be willing to cover up 2 murders in EP 7 (Natsuhi and Krauss) because they were an incident of some sort and were directly involved and even Rosa's one (because covering it up was required in order to cover up Natsuhi and Krauss' and they were in a state of shock so they probably weren't thinking straight) but... well, I've hard time accepting he would be told 'hey, I'll kill 5 people, just pretend you saw me in the shed, here's the money' and would reply 'yeah, sure why not?'

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To answer, though, a Yasu-Culprit theory works as well as any -other- culprit theory for Prime, I guess, though I think she didn't kill anyone. I DO think she's culpable, it's just impossible to say how much.
Yes, I also think that although it's possible that Yasu was also the culprit in Prime the game tried to imply she wasn't.

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To use Kyrie's example while taking her story as true, she didn't murder Asumu. But she clearly feels guilty as if she had. Assuming she isn't lying, this guilt is irrational; she has nothing to apologize for in terms of actual actions she took.
Honestly Kyrie doesn't look much as if she's feeling guilty more like as if she's feeling relieved. She didn't have to dirty her hands with murder but it's not like she feels guilty about Asumu's death. But maybe it's just me.

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She (and Beatrice) says she's a risk-taker. Evidence suggests she merely prefers the appearance of risk, when in fact she's plotting things from the start. "Risk" would not suggest using well-blackmailed accomplices, something Our Confession heavily sells.
Yes. In addition she controls the pieces in the game. George is a piece and he wouldn't move if she weren't to will him to do so.
There are only 2 occasions in which she's really facing risk:

- if Battler can move his own piece at will (and the thing about Battler being in control of his own piece is still up to debate) he could have gone checking her corpse... though probably she would have moved the Hideyoshi piece to stop him as Rosa did stop him when Battler tried to investigate Shannon's death in EP 2.

- if she were to try and reproduce this in Prime. In that case she has no way of making sure George and Battler both wouldn't try to take a peck at her body, making impossible for just Hideyoshi to stop them both.

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The thing I do find noteworthy is that Beatrice wanted Battler to be able to solve her riddles and understand her heart but she also wanted to die. Also all of the piece Beatrice/Yasuda that it seems that all of them die in the end to due explosives. As well that the lack of caring about what happens to her in tea party of EP7. Even in the end of EP8 Beatrice attempts to kills herself by drowning.

So I do think that EP7 that she was prepared to lose. It seems that both meta and piece Beatrice seems to display certain level of suicidal tendency. That regardless if Battler discovered the truth or not, that she going to kill herself.

Batter compared Beatrice's riddles to a love letter but isn't a suicide note better comparison?
Yes, it looks rather close to some sort of suicide note on the line of 'I love you but you don't love me so I'll kill myself... unless you stop me.'
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Old 2012-03-19, 22:01   Link #28193
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@LyricalAura:
You're right, by EP4 we know that it can't be someone else's corpse. However, Umineko stresses how important motive is for murder mysteries, so I think we need a plausible motive for trying to preserve as corpse that long. It is possible that it's Kinzo's corpse, but it's very hard to make that solution work.

However, EP5 makes it very clear that Beatrice's red only refers to real corpses. If a wax figure or something was dressed up to look like a corpse, that would violate no red.


But I think this brings us to Renall's point. Would Natsuhi or the servants be stupid enough to try and pass a wax figure off as Kinzo, even if it was a very detailed one? I hope not. However, if someone was trying to force an investigation of Kinzo's death, it doesn't matter how crude the fake is. In fact, much safer to use a model than a real corpse, since you won't get in as much trouble if the police figure out you did it. Plus, I'd imagine it'd be immensely easier than digging up a grave or something.

Basically, this is the flip side of Yasu supposedly taking huge risks. You win the game almost no matter what happens.
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Old 2012-03-19, 22:47   Link #28194
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@LyricalAura:
You're right, by EP4 we know that it can't be someone else's corpse. However, Umineko stresses how important motive is for murder mysteries, so I think we need a plausible motive for trying to preserve as corpse that long. It is possible that it's Kinzo's corpse, but it's very hard to make that solution work.
The basis of my theory is that Piece-Yasu is a self-insert character who is entirely aware that she's fictional. That gives her a perfectly good motive, not just for Kinzo's corpse, but for everything: to baffle and entertain Prime-Battler, who she hopes is going to read the stories. It just so happens that the reason for her behavior is on the opposite side of the fourth wall.

I guess that would make Umineko a massive experiment in violating Dine's 2nd rule, since it lets Yasu do bizarre things on the game board for the sole purpose of screwing with her reader.

There's a lot of things that make me think this is what's going on, but for starters, I'd point you at the telephone conversation with Piece-Beatrice in EP4 and the interaction between Piece- and Meta-Beatrice at the end of that game.
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Old 2012-03-20, 02:00   Link #28195
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Would it not be useful to Natsuhi to actually have Kinzo's real corpse if she wants to fake his death? Otherwise she'd have to produce a fake 6-toed corpse, or forbid the other family members from seeing Kinzo's corpse (that wouldn't go well), or pretend Kinzo had gone missing.

Natsuhi's best choice depends on the scientific feasibility of preserving a corpse that's been dead for several years in a way that would be undetected and would allow the corpse to seem as though it was dead, say, only a few days.

Unfortunately, I'm hardly an expert at corpse preservation techniques.
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Old 2012-03-20, 06:46   Link #28196
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Would it not be useful to Natsuhi to actually have Kinzo's real corpse if she wants to fake his death? Otherwise she'd have to produce a fake 6-toed corpse, or forbid the other family members from seeing Kinzo's corpse (that wouldn't go well), or pretend Kinzo had gone missing.

Natsuhi's best choice depends on the scientific feasibility of preserving a corpse that's been dead for several years in a way that would be undetected and would allow the corpse to seem as though it was dead, say, only a few days.

Unfortunately, I'm hardly an expert at corpse preservation techniques.
If they did a proper mummyfication on him, they could have stored him several years in some hidden place without the body breaking down etc. Of course, the mummy wouldn't look like a human who just died after a few years, but that could have been the explanation to why he was burnt. That way they wouldn't be able to tell how long it's been since he died. Of course, an autopsy would have exposed the truth.
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Old 2012-03-20, 10:25   Link #28197
cimbrog
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Originally Posted by goldendust View Post
Speaking of suspecting Kinzo, did anyone find it odd that Rosa never seems to suspect Kinzo at all in EP2? I mean she was willingly to blame Kanon becasue there was no corpse but not the far more suspicious Kinzo? That does imply that Rosa knew for sure that Kinzo was dead
I remember a specific point in EP2 where Rosa is taken off screen to check on Kinzo, but we're never shown what happens there. She just comes back like there's nothing odd. I've always assumed that at point she was filled in on what was going on by the servants.
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Old 2012-03-20, 10:28   Link #28198
LyricalAura
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I don't have the exact text handy, but didn't Natsuhi say in EP5 that the plan was to report Kinzo missing once Krauss's finances recovered?
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Old 2012-03-20, 11:28   Link #28199
Renall
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
I don't have the exact text handy, but didn't Natsuhi say in EP5 that the plan was to report Kinzo missing once Krauss's finances recovered?
That's correct. The plan was never to produce a body. Krauss was supposed to be solvent, Kinzo would be reported missing, and at that point seven or so years would pass before the inheritance could even be distributed, more than enough time for Krauss to cover up any incidence of embezzling through his long-term investments.

Natsuhi and Krauss absolutely cannot produce a body. If they do, there will be an autopsy or suspicion. Hell, the other siblings would probably demand it be done by multiple physicians. Police will get involved. Lawyers will get involved. The benefit of "Kinzo wandered off one day and we haven't seen him since" is that there is never any way to verify when he died or how.

Therefore, there's no reason Natsuhi should ever want the body to even exist. It can never help her. That isn't to say the body wasn't preserved, merely that if it was preserved, it wasn't on her or Krauss's orders. They gain nothing by it.
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Old 2012-03-20, 15:05   Link #28200
Judoh
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In episode 5 Gaap tells Natsuhi she can hide Kinzo in a world where no one will ever find him when they talk about making him go missing. This is just a thought. But maybe he was hidden somewhere, or he was buried, but his body wasn't taken care of very well.

That could explain the smell when they burn his body too. ( though I guess it would smell either way ^^U) I don't know if it would be harder to burn an already rotting body or not, and it sounds gross. But it seems less complicated than mummifying him to me. And it wouldn't matter much how his body looked before, after Yasu burned it.
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