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Old 2009-11-13, 18:54   Link #3201
Marion
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Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Well educated doesn't equal clever. it's something really different. In the dungeon scene in Ep 4 for example I got the feeling that Kanon is rather clever (keeping up with Kyrie's dialoge while his sister was confused). But what you state after that is right. Kanon is too impulsive and fickle to be the mastermind...but you know Beatrice is a really fickle and impulsive person as well.
But Beatrice isn't a murderer nor the culprit :U
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:01   Link #3202
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But Beatrice isn't a murderer nor the culprit :U
I have only skimmed through Ep 5 so ther might be a red truth that I missed but am I still see Beatrice as the culprit..I may have missed something..
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:12   Link #3203
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Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
I have only skimmed through Ep 5 so ther might be a red truth that I missed but am I still see Beatrice as the culprit..I may have missed something..
Spoiler for EP 5:
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:15   Link #3204
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Spoiler for Ep 5:
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:32   Link #3205
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Originally Posted by Kitsu View Post
Spoiler for Ep 5:
Beatrice representing the culprit may be the wrong way of thinking. Beatrice wants Battler to find the truth and considering the letters saying she wants the truth found I'm sure we're just misinterpreting it. IIRC Bern was the one who suggested that Beatrice represented the culprit and...yeah let's just say trusting Bern may not be the best thing to do.
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:34   Link #3206
Ithekro
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As seen, there are several lines of reasoning. The problem is...is there just one mastermind?

Beatrice seems to be the excuse...the cover story. The alibi. The one taking the blame even if she did nothing herself. At least that is how her character seems to be developing.

Now the question is...is there a real Beatrice? Is she someone that is not one of the 17 living people on October 4th, 1986? Or is she one of them? Why does she write about the murders the way she does and drop them in the ocean in bottles. And why do the plots from Ep1 and Ep2 show up in bottles in Ep4's version of 1998 based on of Ep3's plot of Eva living? We can guess that Beatrice wrote the letters in a bottle from Maria's book. But since there is real handwriting in all these sources...there is someone who is "Beatrice". The question is...who has access to Maria's book, and who would write the plots of Ep1 and Ep2 down?

Here we get to a problem. When does Beatrice write in Maria's book? If it is only on the island, than the list of suspects is not reduced at all (aside from it being Battler or Kinzo...since Battler wasn't on the island the last several years, and Kinzo is dead before the plots happen). It doesn't make sense for the writter to be Rosa, though she'd have the best access possible. It shouldn't be Maria since the handwritting is different from Maria's. It can't be Ange's because you'd think Ange would remember writting that down...and she's six years old or less at the time the words were written. We mentally remove any of the males from the selection because we assume "Beatrice" is female and Maria's reactions seem to support this...mostly. This limits "Beatrice" to those females on the island...at least it should limit it to just that...not Asumu or Kyrie's sister...since they shouldn't be on the island at any time Maria is there after Battler stops coming to the meetings.

Thus the list shortens to:

Eva
Natsuhi
Kyrie
Shannon
Chiyo
Jessica

Eva is probably not Beatrice...unless she has a serious guilt complex and is taking all the blame herself as Beatrice.

Natsuhi doesn't seem the type to play witch (former miko and very formal in her ways)

Kyrie is basically the mystery woman...we don't know a lot about her...possibe Beatrice.

Shannon. She lives on this island most of her life. She's young enough to reasonably play with Maria. She's shown to believe in Beatrice. Possible Beatrice.

Chiyo. Old lady that likes jokes. Could be Beatrice, but more likely Virgilia in context of everything. Could have trained the Shannon-Beatrice...either as a witch or just in her duties as a servent.

Jessica has lived her whole life on this island. This is her home...more so than anyone else....save maybe Rosa who probably doesn't remember having any other home before she moved out. She's had ample time to explore the island growing up. She had no care about the headship of the family. She's also of the age where she could have played with Maria. Possible Beatrice.

Special consideration:

Kanon. Off chance of being "Beatrice" due to his thin body structure making it possible to go around in a dress and play with Maria. Also believes in Beatrice like Shannon does. However he's a bit hot headed. Probably not Beatrice, but likely knows who "Beatrice" is.


This list doesn't lead us to the culprit, as "Beatrice" is not suppose to be willingly killing people, if she kills anyone at all. She might not even be the mastermind, but the one covering for the mastermind.
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:38   Link #3207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Beatrice representing the culprit may be the wrong way of thinking. Beatrice wants Battler to find the truth and considering the letters saying she wants the truth found I'm sure we're just misinterpreting it. IIRC Bern was the one who suggested that Beatrice represented the culprit and...yeah let's just say trusting Bern may not be the best thing to do.
Is Bern really that untrustworthy in EP5? I remember in previous episodes taking whatever she said at face value and putting a cynical twist on it was the best way to take the information she gave.
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:43   Link #3208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Beatrice representing the culprit may be the wrong way of thinking. Beatrice wants Battler to find the truth and considering the letters saying she wants the truth found I'm sure we're just misinterpreting it. IIRC Bern was the one who suggested that Beatrice represented the culprit and...yeah let's just say trusting Bern may not be the best thing to do.
Not to mention it was Bern who mentioned the idea of Beato not being a real person to begin with, and just a "Representation" as if Battler is in love with George's fiance or his cousin.
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:43   Link #3209
Marion
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Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
Is Bern really that untrustworthy in EP5? I remember in previous episodes taking whatever she said at face value and putting a cynical twist on it was the best way to take the information she gave.
Bern was always untrustworthy. She clearly kept saying she was evil and cruel before the EP 4 troll.

Spoiler for EP 5:
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:46   Link #3210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Bern was always untrustworthy. She clearly kept saying she was evil and cruel before the EP 4 troll.

Spoiler for EP 5:
Is there a sprite sheet anywhere? That is, for EP5 Bern.
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:49   Link #3211
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
Not to mention it was Bern who mentioned the idea of Beato not being a real person to begin with, and just a "Representation" as if Battler is in love with George's fiance or his cousin.
Something tells me you're going to be horribly disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Bern was always untrustworthy. She clearly kept saying she was evil and cruel before the EP 4 troll.
Wouldn't this make her MORE trustworthy, if she's perfectly honest about how horrible she is?

In fact, it seems the only really untrustworthy person is the narrator, given what a troll for the Higurashi players Bern's very existence is.

...I've got it!

The true mastermind is the narrator, Ryukishi07 himself! He's responsible for killing everyone!

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Old 2009-11-13, 19:52   Link #3212
Workworkwork
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Something tells me you're going to be horribly disappointed.



Wouldn't this make her MORE trustworthy, if she's perfectly honest about how horrible she is?

In fact, it seems the only really untrustworthy person is the narrator, given what a troll for the Higurashi players Bern's very existence is.

...I've got it!

The true mastermind is the narrator, Ryukishi07 himself! He's responsible for killing everyone!

Why would I be disappointed? You act as if Ryu07 would dare to pull a Miotsukushi.
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Old 2009-11-13, 19:57   Link #3213
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
Why would I be disappointed? You act as if Ryu07 would dare to pull a Miotsukushi.
...I know that's the name of the final arc of Higurashi Matsuri, but I don't get what you're referring to.

Elaborate?
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Old 2009-11-13, 20:07   Link #3214
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...I know that's the name of the final arc of Higurashi Matsuri, but I don't get what you're referring to.

Elaborate?
Spoiler for Higurashi:
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Old 2009-11-13, 20:09   Link #3215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Bern was always untrustworthy. She clearly kept saying she was evil and cruel before the EP 4 troll.

Spoiler for EP 5:
Spoiler for EP 5:
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Old 2009-11-13, 20:10   Link #3216
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
ugh I hate that theory. It's such a cheap trick to get around red I mean really :| You might as well say the same thing about Shannon whose real name is Sayo.
Yeah, I know that. But that would be the (only?) way out of those red truths regarding EP 2:

They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon!
The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
A different person cannot claim his name!


Of course, it could mean they (servants) found Kanon's corpse, but hid it.
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Old 2009-11-13, 20:11   Link #3217
Marion
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Matsuri isn't canon - the only canon games are Higurashi, Higurashi Kai and Higurashi Rei. Everything else is more or less fan made spin offs.

Quote:
Wouldn't this make her MORE trustworthy, if she's perfectly honest about how horrible she is?
She was honest about how cruel she was, but should we trust everything she says just because of that? After EP 5 I'm going with no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttak View Post
Yeah, I know that. But that would be the (only?) way out of those red truths regarding EP 2:

They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon!
The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
A different person cannot claim his name!


Of course, it could mean they (servants) found Kanon's corpse (or he died right after they found him), but hid it.
OR maybe Kanon never appeared and they just lied to Rosa about the entire thing
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Old 2009-11-13, 20:16   Link #3218
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
OR maybe Kanon never appeared and they just lied to Rosa about the entire thing
Yeah... For instance, half-dead Jessica stumbled up to the door and warned them that Rosa was trying to kill everyone, so they came up with a plot to mislead her, or something like that.
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Old 2009-11-13, 20:16   Link #3219
Workworkwork
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Matsuri isn't canon - the only canon games are Higurashi, Higurashi Kai and Higurashi Rei. Everything else is more or less fan made spin offs.


She was honest about how cruel she was, but should we trust everything she says just because of that? After EP 5 I'm going with no.


OR maybe Kanon never appeared and they just lied to Rosa about the entire thing
I know it isn't canon-Which is why I'd be pissed if Ryu07 decided to make a similar type of ending canon.
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Old 2009-11-13, 20:30   Link #3220
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Matsuri isn't canon - the only canon games are Higurashi, Higurashi Kai and Higurashi Rei. Everything else is more or less fan made spin offs.
Really? I thought Matsuri's ending WAS somewhat canon. Learn something new etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Workworkwork View Post
I know it isn't canon-Which is why I'd be pissed if Ryu07 decided to make a similar type of ending canon.
Well, he did already do something similar with Ep5, so...
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