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Old 2013-06-23, 09:37   Link #32461
Renall
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Originally Posted by Dormin View Post
How canon is the theory that they were playing the game just to have a giggle? I personally like to think this way.
It's possible to do things for two different reasons, so one can probably assume "because it's entertaining" is one of their motives for everything they do, though not necessarily the only one.
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Old 2013-06-24, 12:35   Link #32462
Kiltias
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So what are the thoughts on Rudolf mentioning and following the 36 Stratagems in EP3?
He's already the least trustworthy person on Rokkenjima and quoting as well as following that certainly doesn't help him either.

What I mean is just look at them:
"A plain lie. Make somebody believe there was something when there is in fact nothing. One method of using this strategy is to create an illusion of something's existence, while it does not exist."

" Revive something from the past by giving it a new purpose or bring to life old ideas, customs, or traditions and reinterpret them to fit your purposes. "

"Bait someone by making him believe he gains something"

" Through the use of artifice and disguise, make something of no value appear valuable; of no threat appear dangerous; of no use appear useful."

"You can mask your real goals, by using the ruse of a fake goal that everyone takes for granted, until the real goal is achieved. Tactically, this is known as an 'open feint'; in front of everyone, you point west, when your goal is actually in the east. By the time everyone realized it, you have already achieved your goal."

"Hide behind the mask of a fool, a drunk, or a madman to create confusion about your intentions and motivations. Lure your opponent into underestimating your ability until, overconfident, he drops his guard. Then you may attack. "

"When the enemy is too strong to be attacked directly, then attack something he holds dear.
The idea here is to avoid a head on battle with a strong enemy, and instead strike at his weakness elsewhere."

"Attack using the strength of another"

"There are circumstances in which you must sacrifice short-term objectives in order to gain the long-term goal. This is the scapegoat strategy whereby someone else suffers the consequences."

"Never directly attack an opponent whose advantage is derived from its position. Instead lure him away from his position thus separating him from his source of strength. "

"Undermine your enemy's ability to fight by secretly causing discord between him and his friends, allies, advisors, family, commanders, soldiers, and population."

"Inflict injury upon yourself to win enemy trust."

Rudolf for example was shown to use the 36th and even quoted it.
"If all else fails retreat"
Yet, that stratagem isn't about saving your life it's about saving ones chance to win/succeed.

They're all about using trickery and ruses to succeed, after reading this I just can't shake the feeling he and Kyrie may play far more important roles as some kind of "Puppeteers", having somehow manipulated certain events.

Hell Eva stated Rudolf is violent by nature and Rosa even feared that one brother is gonna make things really dirty followed by Rudolf all alone being the one finding Rosa and Maria dead in EP 3.
Heck there is no way I'll regard it as coincidence that Rudolf's name refers to a goddamn Wolf while we have the entire thing about Wolves and Sheep showing 2 Wolves,Beatrice fearing Wolves or how Wolf is a term used in EP 2 for the Culprits.
He's even a Bishop in EP 3 who stand for Manipulation but also Snakes.

I'm not saying he and Kyrie and THE Culprits but that they may have some major influence on alot of events.


Quote:

1. I think, Yasu is always the culprit of the gameboard.
Unarguably.

Quote:
There are not a single culprit in Prime. Everybody is guilty. Everybody kills someone, and there’s no mastermind behind it.
Nah, Prime Culprit is Rosa or Kyrie and Rudolf.
Ever heard of an Allegory?
Quote:
Definition:

The rhetorical strategy of extending a metaphor through an entire narrative so that objects, persons, and actions in the text are equated with meanings that lie outside the text.
One of the most basic concepts of story writing.

You just gotta see how it all fits together.

1967 Rosa believes in Magic and Witches and wanted to be one herself- 1967 Kuwadorian Beatrice won't leave her "cage" due to Wolves - Name Rudolf refers to Wolf - Eva stated Rudolf had always been violent - Rosa feared Rudolfs action in EP 3 should Eva remain quite about the Gold - Rudolf is constantly portrayed as the downright biggest scum on Rokkenjima.

Beatrice died by falling down a cliff, an event from which Rosa still suffer - Yasu fell down a cliff and sustained a major injury.

Rosa wants to be a butterfly yet she trapped butterflies in spider webs - spider webs work against Beatrice - Rosa shown caught in a Spider Web as a Butterfly - again, Rosa wants to be a Butterfly - Maria is the one who said Beatrice turns into Butterflies - Beatrices magic returned due to the Alliance with Maria - Rosa once had dreams of being a Witch - Maria is has a near obsession with "Fixing the single sick Rose in the garden" - Rosa can even mean Rose - The Golden Land does not exist without Maria.

Kinzo and Kuwadorian Beatrice have a child - Kinzo named Rosas child - Kinzo gives HIS children weird names - Rosa had the name changed to Maria - Despite Kinzo not giving 2 fucks about Maria, Rosa doing so made him very furious - Beatrice said what Kinzo wants most lodges within Maria - Rosa mentioned the Family tree reminds her of a River and that the Epitaph is about Maria - Occult believe mentions about 1 Source and 4 rivers, one leading to Gold another to a dark abyss, about a path to resurrect someone dead by a rebirth to which the womb must belong to 1 of 4 women - 4 women, Rosa,Kyrie,Eva,Natsuhi - Kinzo is into the Occult to resurrect Beatrice.

4 Rivers - Rudolf, Eva, Rosa, Krauss - One Leads to Gold another to a Dark Abyss - Within Maria lodges what Kinzo wants most - Kyrie and Rudolfs actions in 3,7 and 8.

It's all in the clues, those who say otherwise probably don't know that even the "Nipah" in Higurashi was a clue.
I mean fuck Rosa was trapped in a Spider Web as a butterfly:
"A Spider sitting in its web watching till its prey is entangled represents being caught in the illusion of the physical world."

Last edited by Kiltias; 2013-06-25 at 04:36.
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Old 2013-06-27, 04:05   Link #32463
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Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
Nah, Prime Culprit is Rosa or Kyrie and Rudolf.
Ever heard of an Allegory?
Not entirely sure how to interpret your post, so correct me if I'm wrong. Your argument is that there are various metaphors (involving roses, butterflies, etcetera) which suggest Rosa is...Beatrice and/or Yasu? And presumably that Beatrice must be the culprit, and therefore Rosa is the culprit. I can't see your reasoning for Kyrie and Rudolf culprits there.

I don't think that argument hangs together coherently, based on the way it's presented there. There are metaphors to make, as there are metaphors which can be made about many of the Umineko characters, but I fail to see how the ones in question would equate to Rosa or Kyrie and Rudolf being the Prime culprits. For example, Maria's attachment to the sick rose could certainly be taken as a symbol of her devotion to her abusive named-after-a-rose mother, but there's no reason to suppose that that means Rosa is the Prime culprit.

What would their motives be for murdering everybody on the island?
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Old 2013-06-27, 08:59   Link #32464
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Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
Rudolf is constantly portrayed as the downright biggest scum on Rokkenjima.
Whoa whoa whoa hold on a second. Where? When? He is implied to be involved in shady things, but he's almost never portrayed as needlessly aggressive or actively malicious. Even in the "let's shoot everybody" portrayals, he seems to mostly be going along with Kyrie on it, and he's afraid of her reaction to what he wants to tell her ("I'll probably be killed").

Rosa and Natsuhi are much more consistently portrayed as prone to outbursts and Rosa is the one most predisposed to violence. We are never shown any violence being perpetrated against Rosa by anyone other than Maria, except if you want to try to consider the Eva-Beatrice scene as some kind of metaphor for abuse but in that case it's coming from Eva, not Rudolf. Offhand statements about a person's nature years in the past are insufficient proof of culprit motive and disposition, unless you can quote the part where Rudolf kicks Rosa's ass and threatens her (you can't, because it isn't there, because Rudolf is pretty much always dead early in ep1-4).

All that other stuff is just the usual KNM party line and none of it makes thematic sense of actual events or grossly misinterprets a handful of lines in ignorance of a thematic whole (such as somehow getting the idea that Rudolf is violent out of a few lines when the actual text mostly portrays him as incompetent without Kyrie's help). Once this theory starts trying to run up against the Battler/Beatrice dynamic it hits a brick wall and stops being particularly coherent. It also interprets things in a manner which is needlessly exclusionary; for example, why can I just suggest that Yasu got the ideas for her symbolism as Beatrice from Maria, who in turn got some of them from her mother? We know Yasu was cribbing from Maria's occult trivia, something that would be quite strange for Rosa to do since IIRC KNM's theory posits that Rosa taught Maria that stuff, rather than being taught by Maria as ep7 states. This would provide thematic continuity of the succession of Beatrice's powers from Beatrice to Rosa (the last person to see her alive) to Maria (her daughter) to Yasu (Maria's friend).

There's other ways I could tear this apart but I've got stuff to do, but to help me out, cite your sources for "occult belief." Where did you hear about this symbolism?

---

Also that stuff's not an allegory. Allegory is when parts of a story symbolize larger concepts or attempt to explain the broader functioning of the world on the whole. Umineko doesn't attempt to do this at the highest level, but it does do it in places. For example, an allegory would be the thematic progression of the Ange side of Alliance, where Rosa and Maria's relationship is a symbolic representation of the cycle of resentment and violence that turn innocent children into bitter and broken adults, with the Black Witch serving as the allegorical representation of that cycle. Ange "defeats" the Black Witch (breaks the cycle) by forgiving Eva (her representation of the Black Witch and the literal adult who mistreated her). Had that particular narrative not existed, the "Black Witch" would still exist in Maria's mentionings of it, but it wouldn't be an allegory for anything, it'd just be a metaphor for Rosa when she's angry.

A story can have themes and not necessarily be allegorical, and themes can be misinterpreted to read into a story an allegory that doesn't exist, such as The Wonderful Wizard of Oz being a political screed about the Gold Standard or The Lord of the Rings being about WW2 (both were denied by their authors, but you can find "proof" if you dig hard enough).

Also, I think you know and have studied far more about chess symbolism than Ryukishi ever did, which makes me immediately suspicious of your "conclusions."
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Old 2013-06-28, 22:40   Link #32465
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Here's an interesting tidbit from the trial in EP5:

Spoiler:


I never noticed until I reread this episode with the recently released tweak patch a few weeks ago that this was the first time that Beato herself openly refers to the "promise" Battler made (presumably 6 years ago) that he forgot. In EP4, she referred to it as a "sin" that Battler committed 6 years ago that he was unable to remember as well, which then seemed to crush her spirits at least as much as this moment. It's also interesting how Beatrice's response at this particular moment seems to imply that she was the direct recipient of Battler's promise, whereas in EP4 she goes out of her way to deny it. It's just so sad that by the time Battler finally remembers everything (in the EP5 tea parties) meta-Beatrice had completely given up and ceased to exist.


Also, here's another moment in the EP5 trial that I was wondering what other people's interpretations might have been.

Spoiler:


I was wondering who Beatrice might have been referring to as the "man who believed even though everyone said he was wrong" and "was forced to abandon that belief". In retrospect, my initial thought was that she was referring to "herself" in the past, except as a "man" (having obvious gender identity issues), having her heart broken when Battler forgot his "promise", but now I'm wondering if she might have been referring to someone else like the Battler of Rokkenjima prime, especially if we consider this episode as having been written by Hachijo. Either way, it's definitely an intriguing moment in this episode that lends itself to a variety of interpretations, although it would just be absolutely HILARIOUS if she was actually referring to the bumbling Krauss and his numerous poor investment decisions.
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Old 2013-06-28, 23:00   Link #32466
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Originally Posted by fg204 View Post
I was wondering who Beatrice might have been referring to as the "man who believed even though everyone said he was wrong" and "was forced to abandon that belief". In retrospect, my initial thought was that she was referring to "herself" in the past, except as a "man" (having obvious gender identity issues), having her heart broken when Battler forgot his "promise", but now I'm wondering if she might have been referring to someone else like the Battler of Rokkenjima prime, especially if we consider this episode as having been written by Hachijo. Either way, it's definitely an intriguing moment in this episode that lends itself to a variety of interpretations, although it would just be absolutely HILARIOUS if she was actually referring to the bumbling Krauss and his numerous poor investment decisions.
Or maybe it was Kinzo?
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Old 2013-06-29, 15:05   Link #32467
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If you're going that route: What was it that Kinzo believed even though everyone said he was wrong, and how did he "abandon that belief?"

There are certainly some things that one could say Kinzo believed that others did not, but when did he abandon those beliefs, especially in light of ep7 suggesting he was vindicated in his belief in the end?
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Old 2013-06-29, 15:13   Link #32468
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If you're going that route: What was it that Kinzo believed even though everyone said he was wrong, and how did he "abandon that belief?"

There are certainly some things that one could say Kinzo believed that others did not, but when did he abandon those beliefs, especially in light of ep7 suggesting he was vindicated in his belief in the end?
2 possibilities:

1. His love for Beatrice
2. As a very pessimistic example: His view that his life is empty and worthless and he should just be left to die.
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Old 2013-06-29, 21:38   Link #32469
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The problem I have with Kinzo is that Beato here seems to be showing the kind of sympathy she only shows to people she really cares about, and I just can't imagine her having anything other than antipathy toward Kinzo considering all the things he did to her, both directly and indirectly. To be fair, this is PieceBeato we're talking about here (possibly being controlled by the GM Lambda), so who knows what she's referring to.

Speaking of possible antipathy toward Kinzo, here's an interesting little tidbit between Kanon/Shannon just before their duel in EP6.

Spoiler:


Even though it's been shown many times in previous episodes that Kanon/Shannon consider each other as siblings, this is actually the first time they ever speak of a common "Father" from whom they are "born". You can definitely feel their self-hatred (eg. "it would have been better if we had died right after being born") and antipathy (eg. "So he can just die. Let them all die.") seething through in this conversation. Given all of this, who do you think this "Father" is referring to? At first, it sure seemed to suggest that they were talking about Battler considering the way the RevivedBeato initially called him "father" and the way that this "sin" is brought up (reminiscent of EP4). However, in contrast to the other scene talking about the "strength of the man who believed even though everyone said he was wrong", the pure hatred and antipathy shown toward this "Father" here leads me to believe that it must have been referring to Kinzo, since I just can't believe that they have it in them to hate Battler like this.

Overall, it just seems like these magic and/or meta scenes are just full of interesting moments like this after going back and rereading them. What does everyone else think?
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Old 2013-06-29, 21:55   Link #32470
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I think I was misunderstood. I was merely trying to say that an interpretation using Kinzo for that "man" is at least possible. I also think that it seems very unlikely that he was ment by it. I actually think that the Kinzo interpretation is trap. Maybe R07 wanted to create a red herring to make people believe that Beatrice was talking about Kinzo. After all the duel scene in EP6 was not known to the viewers at that time, same with EP7. At that moment Kinzo was still a complete mystery.
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Old 2013-06-30, 02:39   Link #32471
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The problem I have with Kinzo is that Beato here seems to be showing the kind of sympathy she only shows to people she really cares about, and I just can't imagine her having anything other than antipathy toward Kinzo considering all the things he did to her, both directly and indirectly. To be fair, this is PieceBeato we're talking about here (possibly being controlled by the GM Lambda), so who knows what she's referring to.
Beatrice does actually talk about Kinzo in an affectionate manner a lot, which makes sense really; part of the "thousand-year old witch" persona she's adopting involves taking on the other two Beatrices' stories as her own, so it's a natural part of the roleplay. That said, I really don't think she is referring to Kinzo there. I really think it would make more sense if she was talking about herself, but it seems odd for her to use male pronouns in that context. I'd be interested to know whether a specific gender was implied in the original Japanese.

As for the part about their "father", I always wondered whether that was referring to Yasu, given that s/he is the one that created both Shannon and Kanon. Assuming that Shannon and Kanon represent Yasu's love for George and Jessica (as they generally seem to during EP6), it makes sense that they might think that Yasu should have destroyed those feelings within herself before allowing them to go anywhere, thus "dying right after being born". In that case, their father's "sin" is the same sin that's brought up throughout the episode, of trying to achieve love despite being furniture which is unworthy of love.

I'd have problems interpreting their "father" as Kinzo there because it isn't actually Kinzo's fault that Yasu didn't die; he didn't know anything about it. If this scene was really meant to be talking about Yasu's regret that she didn't die after falling off the cliff, Genji and Nanjo are the ones she should be blaming, and calling them "father" is a real stretch.
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Old 2013-06-30, 06:25   Link #32472
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Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
Genji and Nanjo are the ones she should be blaming, and calling them "father" is a real stretch.
On the other hand, in EP6 when going to save Battler Kanon mentions that if there is one person he could call father, it'd be Genji.

I also think this could be consciously left vague, as the concept of parents and children, creations and creators, offspring and origin are key concepts to Umineko and it leaves a lot of room to think who that "father" who made them live actually is.
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Old 2013-06-30, 09:46   Link #32473
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As for the part about their "father", I always wondered whether that was referring to Yasu, given that s/he is the one that created both Shannon and Kanon. Assuming that Shannon and Kanon represent Yasu's love for George and Jessica (as they generally seem to during EP6), it makes sense that they might think that Yasu should have destroyed those feelings within herself before allowing them to go anywhere, thus "dying right after being born". In that case, their father's "sin" is the same sin that's brought up throughout the episode, of trying to achieve love despite being furniture which is unworthy of love.
Honestly, this is kind of the most sensible explanation, but I'm also not 100% sure it's actually the one that was intended. Nobody truly brought "Shannon" and "Kanon" as we knew them into existence except Yasu, and this is especially true for Kanon, who seems to have much less of an external stimulus than Shannon (who could be explained as emerging from necessity).

Now on the one hand I suppose you could argue that it's Battler because, had he not left, Shannon and Kanon as the figures they are would have no cause to exist. On the other hand, if Yasu were to truly believe himself/herself "unworthy of love," blaming Battler for that would be both incredibly non-self-reflective and hypocritical of Shannon and Kanon. If you can't be loved, it follows that the first person who couldn't love you is no more responsible than the other two people who supposedly can't.

And if there's no one else to blame, Yasu would have to blame himself/herself for having the "audacity" to try to love as furniture. And Yasu self-blaming is very much in-character, so Yasu-blaming-Yasu makes the most sense of the "Father" interpretation... but I also have a hunch that wasn't Ryukishi's intention, despite working so well.
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Old 2013-06-30, 11:08   Link #32474
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I know what you mean; I'm not sure whether it's what Ryukishi intended either. But at the same time I have a hard time seeing how anything else could fit.

Quote:
Now on the one hand I suppose you could argue that it's Battler because, had he not left, Shannon and Kanon as the figures they are would have no cause to exist. On the other hand, if Yasu were to truly believe himself/herself "unworthy of love," blaming Battler for that would be both incredibly non-self-reflective and hypocritical of Shannon and Kanon. If you can't be loved, it follows that the first person who couldn't love you is no more responsible than the other two people who supposedly can't.
While this is completely true, it's also extremely clear that Yasu did regard what Battler did as a "sin", so I don't think this is a valid argument for the "father" not being Battler. What bugs me more about that interpretation is the "we should have died right after being born" part. Surely they shouldn't have been born at all if Battler had remembered? But I can't be sure that Ryukishi is thinking the same way on that.
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Old 2013-06-30, 11:32   Link #32475
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While this is completely true, it's also extremely clear that Yasu did regard what Battler did as a "sin", so I don't think this is a valid argument for the "father" not being Battler. What bugs me more about that interpretation is the "we should have died right after being born" part. Surely they shouldn't have been born at all if Battler had remembered? But I can't be sure that Ryukishi is thinking the same way on that.
The only thing I can think for this, other than just perhaps a mistranslation, is that they mean "we exist as basically the idea of a future with these people; Yasu should've discarded us as soon as she thought about them, because it's impossible, and by entertaining the idea seriously for any amount of time she's just causing all of us heartbreak."
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Old 2013-06-30, 12:26   Link #32476
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Well, yeah. That's more or less the exact interpretation I was proposing:
Quote:
Assuming that Shannon and Kanon represent Yasu's love for George and Jessica (as they generally seem to during EP6), it makes sense that they might think that Yasu should have destroyed those feelings within herself before allowing them to go anywhere, thus "dying right after being born". In that case, their father's "sin" is the same sin that's brought up throughout the episode, of trying to achieve love despite being furniture which is unworthy of love.
That later comment about the 'died right after being born' line was regarding the possibility of Battler being the "Father". Obviously I agree that the line makes sense with Yasu as the "Father".
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Old 2013-06-30, 17:45   Link #32477
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Originally Posted by fg204 View Post
Here's an interesting tidbit from the trial in EP5:
I never noticed until I reread this episode with the recently released tweak patch a few weeks ago that this was the first time that Beato herself openly refers to the "promise" Battler made (presumably 6 years ago) that he forgot. In EP4, she referred to it as a "sin" that Battler committed 6 years ago that he was unable to remember as well, which then seemed to crush her spirits at least as much as this moment. It's also interesting how Beatrice's response at this particular moment seems to imply that she was the direct recipient of Battler's promise, whereas in EP4 she goes out of her way to deny it. It's just so sad that by the time Battler finally remembers everything (in the EP5 tea parties) meta-Beatrice had completely given up and ceased to exist.
In the manga the scene is even more devasting. Beato is completely crushed she looks like she's going insane.
As for why Beato in Ep 4 denied being connected to the promise... well that could have been some sort of word trick as Battler didn't directly made the promise to Beato but... as Beato is Yasu/inherited the love from Yasu at the same time he did.

Another possibility is that MetaBeato is actually something different from PieceBeato. For example, in a game made by MetaBattler PieceBattler might not know who's the culprit but MetaBattler should. So the promise wasnt made to MetaBeato because she's actually a Meta representation of something that exists only in Battler/Toya's mind, but it was made to PieceBeato as she's nothing else but Yasu.

Also: Ryukishi messed up.
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Originally Posted by fg204 View Post
Also, here's another moment in the EP5 trial that I was wondering what other people's interpretations might have been.

Spoiler:


I was wondering who Beatrice might have been referring to as the "man who believed even though everyone said he was wrong" and "was forced to abandon that belief". In retrospect, my initial thought was that she was referring to "herself" in the past, except as a "man" (having obvious gender identity issues), having her heart broken when Battler forgot his "promise", but now I'm wondering if she might have been referring to someone else like the Battler of Rokkenjima prime, especially if we consider this episode as having been written by Hachijo. Either way, it's definitely an intriguing moment in this episode that lends itself to a variety of interpretations, although it would just be absolutely HILARIOUS if she was actually referring to the bumbling Krauss and his numerous poor investment decisions.
I thought it referred to Battler and to the fact he tried so hard to deny that one of the guys he loved could be the culprit and in the end he was forced to accept there was no 19 person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fg204 View Post
The problem I have with Kinzo is that Beato here seems to be showing the kind of sympathy she only shows to people she really cares about, and I just can't imagine her having anything other than antipathy toward Kinzo considering all the things he did to her, both directly and indirectly. To be fair, this is PieceBeato we're talking about here (possibly being controlled by the GM Lambda), so who knows what she's referring to.

Speaking of possible antipathy toward Kinzo, here's an interesting little tidbit between Kanon/Shannon just before their duel in EP6.

Spoiler:


Even though it's been shown many times in previous episodes that Kanon/Shannon consider each other as siblings, this is actually the first time they ever speak of a common "Father" from whom they are "born". You can definitely feel their self-hatred (eg. "it would have been better if we had died right after being born") and antipathy (eg. "So he can just die. Let them all die.") seething through in this conversation. Given all of this, who do you think this "Father" is referring to? At first, it sure seemed to suggest that they were talking about Battler considering the way the RevivedBeato initially called him "father" and the way that this "sin" is brought up (reminiscent of EP4). However, in contrast to the other scene talking about the "strength of the man who believed even though everyone said he was wrong", the pure hatred and antipathy shown toward this "Father" here leads me to believe that it must have been referring to Kinzo, since I just can't believe that they have it in them to hate Battler like this.

Overall, it just seems like these magic and/or meta scenes are just full of interesting moments like this after going back and rereading them. What does everyone else think?
I think they refer to... many things actually. Father must be Kinzo, who created the mess of their identity (Yasu's born by an incestuous relation, her mother trapped in a cage by Kinzo escaped and died, Yasu was carelessly handed to Natsuhi who hated him and caused her fall with the assorted gender identity problems and the miserable life that pushed Yasu to create Kanon and Shannon and never forget Kinzo didn't recognize Yasu until short before he died, never giving her a father or the chance to be officially acknowledged as a member of the family).
Letting him die might refer to stopping supporting the mummery in which Kinzo is alive.
If this is a metaphorical representation of what would have happened had Battler never returned and Yasu made a decision 'letting them all die' might mean changing her relations with the others. If she marries George Natsuhi as her master 'dies' and is 'reborn' as the mother of her husband's cousin.
Of course it can also refer to other things, for example to the fact that the tale is about to end, everyone will die but they will meet again in another tale.
However as they're having a fight about who gets to live I'd like to think it's just a metaphor for what had happened in Prime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
As for the part about their "father", I always wondered whether that was referring to Yasu, given that s/he is the one that created both Shannon and Kanon. Assuming that Shannon and Kanon represent Yasu's love for George and Jessica (as they generally seem to during EP6), it makes sense that they might think that Yasu should have destroyed those feelings within herself before allowing them to go anywhere, thus "dying right after being born". In that case, their father's "sin" is the same sin that's brought up throughout the episode, of trying to achieve love despite being furniture which is unworthy of love.
It's an interesting representation and I like it... though I find weird they would refer to Yasu as father. Even if Yasu was technically a male Yasu always seems to consider herself female and even Beato calls her mother.
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Old 2013-07-04, 22:10   Link #32478
Cao Ni Ma
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Forgery of the Purple Logic's last chapter was scanned some time ago...the culprit was...

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Wish someone would translate it. It seemed like a fun story.
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Old 2013-07-04, 22:37   Link #32479
AuraTwilight
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I knew it. I knew it ever since Kinjo did it as a joke.
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When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
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Old 2013-07-04, 22:50   Link #32480
Renall
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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