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Old 2013-09-27, 15:00   Link #33081
MysteriousLurkerGuy
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Much as it's been speculated that Eva hiding the true events of Prime somehow implicates Rudolf and Kyrie, I wonder if it's to cover up her own failure to save Battler. In the Ep8 "magic" ending, Ange (summarizing Battler's exposition) mentions that the two of them were traveling together to reach Kuwadorian and became separated. Battler "dies," Eva makes it alone, and then has to raise Ange with her huge brother complex. Ange's accusations would pretty much be a twisting of the knife there, and given Battler's fate, provide a tragic sort of irony.
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Old 2013-09-27, 18:03   Link #33082
jjblue1
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I wonder if Beato looked shocked because SHE wrote the first two, which means it wasn't just selfish speculation by outsiders, but at least somewhat informed by fact and the adults' personalities. I assume she is shocked Battler is outright lying to Ange to the nth degree, but thoughtful because she knows what he is trying to do and doesn't think it would be helpful to interject with "But I did know them, and when they were in a bad mood they did do terrible stuff"
Well, Battler, more than lying to Ange is raising a likely legittimate point. There's a huge chance the media presented a rather horrible image of the Ushiromiya in their wish to paint them as culprits. Think at what Erika did in Ep 5 with Natsuhi.
Beato's 2 tales likely were a drop compared to the huge amount of fanwork Ange had to deal with and likely that fanwork wasn't Ange's only problem. Think at the scene in which all her goat-classmates toss at her the Rudolf family culprit theory. Likely this bugged her much more than Beato's 2 tales in which Rudolf and Kyrie were barely developed and surely weren't culprits as they died pretty quickly.

Honestly I've been wondering if the reason for Beato's surprise is that Battler's reasoning applied to her too. Yasu let herself be influenced by what others said about Battler and lost fait in the fact he would return which caused her to wallow in misery and possibly long for death the same way Ange was doing.

In Ep 3, 5 & 7 is said Battler had honest feelings for her and wasn't making fun of her when they were children yet Yasu never seemed to realize it. Even in Ep 7 when Will informs Clair in the end Battler understood her message he never tells her Battler had feelings for her as a child and wasn't just making fun of her with his words.

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Also, I am not sure I buy into paranoia and everyone killing eachother (otherwise why would Eva have needed to be told, she would have been there), but I can buy into the fact that Yasu had some hand in it (and has repeatedly been said to have been prepping to do something terrible) but that the adults were probably largely to blame. Eva was likely involved and feels super guilty about it. We always used to ask who she would protect Ange from learning about, well if everyone was involved that would be good motivation. "Sorry Ange, your entire family including your parents had a big selfish fight and blew eachother up".
Eva might not know exactly what had happened to everyone because it's possible all the residents of Rokkenjima didn't spend all the time coped up together but parted ways.
However, while I've no problems thinking Rosa might have had a paranoia attack seeing a corpse or what she believed was a corpse due to the trauma of seeing Beato's death, other characters doesn't seem so prone to go paranoid although some of them can get violent or aggressive enough to the point to push others to become violent.

Still, as I've said many times in the past I don't really find easy to work up a believable explanation that would justify the death of so many people, including the children and the servants.

As for Eva and Battler's escape it could be interesting if we had a setting similar to Ep 7 Teaparty only Eva, after killing Kyrie found Battler and wanted to save him so lead him to escape in the tunnel with her with some sort of explanation.
However something happened between the two (either Battler said something that made Eva believe he was Kyrie's accomplice or she said something that caused Battler to decide to try to return back on his own only he took the wrong way) and they parted ways.

Another alternative would be that, unaware of what was going on among his parents and assorted relatives, Battler instead than trying to reach Kuwadorian wanted to escape with Yasu. As they're in the tunnel or about to leave the bomb explodes. Yasu dies and Battler is under shock. He leaves in a confusional state gets on the motorboat thinking to ask for help or something but only ends up capsizing the motor boat and, as if this wasn't bad enough, when he reaches the land he's involved in a car incident.

After all it's Ange's assumption Battler was escaping with Eva toward Kuwadorian. He could have been trying to reach the submarine base with someone else using the same passage that also lead to Kuwadorian.

In fact Battler just said:

Quote:
"On that day, ......I escaped through the underground passage. .... I was told that an underground passage led to a hidden mansion on the opposite side of the island. ......However, the place we escaped to was a submarine base, not Kuwadorian." ... "From there, I got away on a motorboat. ......However, ......it must have capsized somewhere along the way."
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Old 2013-09-27, 18:05   Link #33083
GreyZone
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Maybe Kyrie even flipped the switch on the clock, using her chessboard logic (but getting it so wrong). That would be ironic.

Maybe the fight even broke out over the clock, and deciding which way to switch it (while not trusting Yasu, who had already fled or died). Maybe all the kids ran to the tunnels, and Eva tried to follow them but went the wrong way, and then only Battler survived the boat trip. I doubt he'd have left his alive cousins behind, so he either went to the tunnels before trouble started, thought they were there, they were there or they were dead. Likewise, Eva wouldn't leave an alive George or (dependent on how it affected George) Hideoyoshi behind, but would try and run after them.
Now wait... this brings me back to the first tea party in EP1... "Battler if you don't believe, the revival magic loses its power". Maybe it was actually Battler who killed everyone because he didn't trust "Beatrice". He didn't believe in her miracle and flipped the bomb on "on". This would bring a LOT of sense into the story and would be a good reason for Eva to hide the truth from Ange, I mean imagine Eva saying: "Sorry Ange, your brother was doubting someone and by doing that killed everyone but me, I know that sux but deal with it."

Who knows... maybe there were no killings at all until the bomb exploded.


EDIT: Seems Tohya doesn't really remember what happened on the boat...
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Old 2013-09-27, 18:51   Link #33084
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I've always thought that there doesn't have to be many killings or even any killings before the bomb goes off, you don't need a motive to kill all the relatives, servants and cousins when they will all die anyway.

While a cool idea about Battler, if he had flipped the switch I would imagine he'd have hung around the clock. Why would he escape if he thought everyone was safe? The fact they were escaping to the hidden mansion at all implies they were running from something or someone. You could argue fighting broke out and Yasu told Battler to go hide in the mansion, but I am not sure she would leave the other cousins behind, and he sure wouldn't.
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Old 2013-09-27, 23:01   Link #33085
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
No, it never has confirmed that she's the real culprit on Rokkenjima Prime, and likewise I think that the narrative and Battler's behaviour towards Beatrice suggests that she isn't the real culprit.

I can't really help explain about Ange's behaviour there, since I don't entirely understand it myself either.
Cool, thanks for the info. I don't really like the idea that Yasu is actually the culprit, it just raises too many inconsistencies for me. Unless it's confirmed for a fact, I don't see myself buying into it.

Ange's behavior when reading the Truth could be explained by seeing her parents were actually the culprits. That's my personal theory anyway, because I like it and as far as I can tell it fits.

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On the positive side the manga explained why Ange's character "regressed" in Ep 8.
They said that seeing Bern's game in Ep 7 Teaparty caused her to reject her understanding of Eva and decide she had to be the culprit.
Metaphorically speaking this might mean during her life Ange was trying to understand and accept Eva but when the Rudolf's family culprit theory came around, in order to deny that theory she ended up rejecting any possible understanding she had of Eva.

Also when Battler said to a sleeping Ange that although they were different most of what she heard were the selfish speculations from people outside the island Beato was surprised then sadly thoughtful. I wonder if this has an extra meaning. Or am I reading too much in that scene?
Can the manga be considered canon? I mean I know it's written by him, but it's still an adaptation and sometimes scenes are shortened or different and I always feel weird letting any adaptation be used as evidence for the original. An author can decide later to add something in that doesn't work in the originals but works in the manga, which would create inconsistencies. I think VNs and official statements on the VNs should be all that's used to prove or argue anything.

Again, unless he's come right out and said "anything that happens in the manga can definitely be considered canon in relation to the VNs, even if it didn't happen there", at which point I can't really fight against that.
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Old 2013-09-28, 00:40   Link #33086
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Again, unless he's come right out and said "anything that happens in the manga can definitely be considered canon in relation to the VNs, even if it didn't happen there", at which point I can't really fight against that.
He officially said in an interview that he was talking with the manga around the time when EP8 was finished, how they would insert more information into the manga adaptations EP7 and EP8 to make several aspects a little bit more clear since many people seemed to have problems with it.
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Old 2013-09-28, 23:46   Link #33087
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On the positive side the manga explained why Ange's character "regressed" in Ep 8.
They said that seeing Bern's game in Ep 7 Teaparty caused her to reject her understanding of Eva and decide she had to be the culprit.
When was this said?

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Maybe Kyrie even flipped the switch on the clock, using her chessboard logic (but getting it so wrong). That would be ironic.
I find the prospect ridiculous. Why would anyone believe the story about the bomb but not believe when Beatrice tells them it's in the off position? Chessboard logic dictates that Beatrice isn't lying about the clock being in the off position, because if Beatrice meant for everyone to blow up, she has nothing to gain by telling them anything.

Of course, in the story they really did freak out about the bomb switch. And it was dumb then, too.

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Who knows... maybe there were no killings at all until the bomb exploded.
The problem with this is Eva. Why was Eva outside the bomb radius? And if she was only by some coincidence, why would she hide the truth?
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Old 2013-09-29, 00:39   Link #33088
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I'm not sure I can buy "fleeing" to Kuwadorian. The nature of the bomb makes that seem very unlikely. If you know the bomb is going to go off, and you have access to the tunnels, you have access to the switch. You can't run away from the bomb if you're anywhere near its radius when it goes off. It just isn't possible (see ep2 with Rosa etc.). If you know about it well in advance and other people are alive, you have time to either disable the bomb or - if you can't be sure which orientation is OFF and which is ON - gather everyone up and move them to Kuwadorian. Surely Eva and Battler would both have attempted to do this if they could have.

The problem then is why they couldn't. The only reasons I can think of either require that everyone else be dead or that Battler/Eva believes them all to be dead... but then the switch also still has to be set to blow, meaning someone has to have set it. The only people we know for certain know of the bomb are Yasu and Genji. If the deaths were faked, Yasu has no reason to set the bomb and Genji won't do it if he's not ordered to. If Yasu intends to kill everyone, then she has no reason to tell anyone about the bomb's existence and thus Battler/Eva should have no reason to believe they need to get to a safe distance.

That leaves open the prospect that Yasu told someone about it, like in ep7. But if she did, it means somebody found out about it and then decided to activate it. We can't be entirely sure why, but I don't buy the idea that someone would decide to go on a murder spree and use the bomb to cover it up, because it's implausible that someone would believe it would definitely work. You don't commit mass murder on a maybe. There are certainly other reasons to set it, but you'd think Yasu or Genji would check on it at some point just to be sure it's not on...
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Old 2013-09-29, 05:30   Link #33089
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Hell, maybe they didn't even believe in any goddamn bomb and the switch. I believe this was discussed somewhere before, as the bombs exists somewhere hidden, Yasu has no evidence of bomb threat being even true. Maybe nobody even believed her and thought she was just kidding and trying to pull a prank, and someone started jokingly flipping the switch on the bomb. I can totally see that happening, maybe Eva not giving a fuck about threats of a lowly servant.

Quote:
That leaves open the prospect that Yasu told someone about it, like in ep7. But if she did, it means somebody found out about it and then decided to activate it. We can't be entirely sure why, but I don't buy the idea that someone would decide to go on a murder spree and use the bomb to cover it up, because it's implausible that someone would believe it would definitely work. You don't commit mass murder on a maybe. There are certainly other reasons to set it, but you'd think Yasu or Genji would check on it at some point just to be sure it's not on...
The entire concept of "mass murder" is a very wild card because mass murders rarely happen: and now I'm talking about similar murders like in the story: supposedly lone culprit manages to execute everyone without anyone taking necessary steps to fight back. Or hide. The most logical step when guns start blazing would probably be to run, and fast, as far away from the killer as you can. If the survivors would simply hide in the forest, culprit would have almost zero ways of finding them in the dark. So even the concept of "mass murder" in the way it is implicated to have happened is kind of unrealistic, though not impossible: the killer would somehow had to hide the fact that he has been involved in a terrible act, and the island is full of people that could hear the gunshots or see the act itself.

This way "using bomb to hide evidence" is a logical step, though arriving in this step would have to be the most unrealistic killings in a long time. However, if we consider the bomb as hiding factor (let's say that Eva detonates the bomb to hide her involvement), I don't see why that couldn't be possible if the person flipping the switch doesn't have anything to lose. If everyone is already dead on the island, why wouldn't the culprit/anyone that's covering anything set the bomb anyway?

Also considering the culprit on the prime, I'm still very positive it was Kyrie and co. We have given some very strong implications, but as it has already become clear that the matter of "true culprit" has been intentionally left open, I guess my belief is something I "want to believe" because I personally want it to be true.

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Can the manga be considered canon? I mean I know it's written by him, but it's still an adaptation and sometimes scenes are shortened or different and I always feel weird letting any adaptation be used as evidence for the original. An author can decide later to add something in that doesn't work in the originals but works in the manga, which would create inconsistencies. I think VNs and official statements on the VNs should be all that's used to prove or argue anything.
Well, yeah, I guess you have a point. No matter have you look at it however, I believe Ryu intended it to be "canon", but it has some "fixed" material and scenes that appear to be different from the VN, as have been discussed before. I don't think he would write something "alternative" without clearly stating so.

I'd myself consider it as canon as the umineko anime adaption, that I must remind, nobody likes.

Last edited by Dormin; 2013-09-29 at 05:41.
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Old 2013-09-29, 09:03   Link #33090
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This way "using bomb to hide evidence" is a logical step, though arriving in this step would have to be the most unrealistic killings in a long time. However, if we consider the bomb as hiding factor (let's say that Eva detonates the bomb to hide her involvement), I don't see why that couldn't be possible if the person flipping the switch doesn't have anything to lose. If everyone is already dead on the island, why wouldn't the culprit/anyone that's covering anything set the bomb anyway?
There's a big difference between "Everyone's dead for various reasons, so I have nothing to lose" (which could apply even if no one was actually dead) and "Oh, this can blow everything up? Well, that sounds perfectly reasonable and I'll rely on it because you told me so. Time to go hunt down and shoot/stab everyone else to death."

If Kyrie honestly were in an appropriate position like ep7 with the mentality to kill everyone, the best thing to do is just shoot all the other adults and Yasu and start carrying gold bars to Kuwadorian while Rudolf goes topside, clocks Battler upside the head, and drags him through the tunnels. If a halfway intelligent killer believes that the bomb will work, then they'd use it because it eliminates uncertainties. The fact that somebody didn't do this suggests to me that either somebody did something stupid and screwed up (which would lend more to the "tragic sequence of paranoia" interpretation) or nobody actually believed the bomb thing in the first place and, at best, activated it only when they thought they had nothing to lose.

I'm also fond of the idea of somebody activating it to kill an uncertain killer, although I'm not sure that mystery-fond Yasu would do something that desperate rather than try to identify the actual culprit.
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Old 2013-09-29, 09:14   Link #33091
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
When was this said?
It's in chapter 9 of the Episode 8 manga.
Eva is blaming herself that she could not become a mother to Ange and let her grief take over her whole life. Beato responds that it was neither her nor Ange's fault, they were too caught up in a vortex of loneliness and sadness, leading to them failing to understand each other.
Then she goes on that formerly Ange at least understood Eva, but it was through what Lady Bernkastel had been thrusting at her that her vision became clouded (in the background the "This is all truth" scene from EP7), but she believes that one day Ange will remember.

The scene is interesting in general, as it also contains a lot of little side information. When Battler starts speaking to sleeping Ange first he says the following thing:
Ange, I wonder if you already noticed...
This place that I invited you to is actually a little different from a gameboard
It's a place close to the Golden Land
The world that you refused before
Where all the souls of the dead revive
And all existences can be equal...
That is why grandfather or Shannon-Kanon...Beatrice...all the people that can not meet in existence can exist here equally
Maria said this once I think
Halloween is time when the world of the living and the world of the dead are closest...
That is why this Halloween party is, Ange, our last present for you
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Old 2013-09-29, 18:35   Link #33092
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When was this said?
Ep 8 chap 9. It's said in the past Ange was even capable to understand Eva (and there's a scene from Ep 4 when she realized she was the one who was supposed to be at Eva's side) but that now, due to the things Berncastel thrust at her once again she had cluded her eyes (and there's a pic of Bern saying "This is all the truth, which I guess, is supposed to represent a scene from Ep 7 Teaparty)

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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
I find the prospect ridiculous. Why would anyone believe the story about the bomb but not believe when Beatrice tells them it's in the off position? Chessboard logic dictates that Beatrice isn't lying about the clock being in the off position, because if Beatrice meant for everyone to blow up, she has nothing to gain by telling them anything.
I think we can't reason on the logic behind switching the bomb on unless we know what went on. Depending on the setting, Beato's words (if it was Beato who informed the adults about the switch and no someone else like... let's say Genji) might have looked believable or unbelievable.
After all the setting Beato set up in the gameboards is pretty strange. She wants to murder people according to an epitaph and then blast everything away, herself included. It'll be easier to just blast everything away if she really planned to kill everyone and herself.

If the setting was the same as in Ep 7 Teaparty... honestly I don't believe Kyrie would have been the type to turn on the switch by mistakenly reading her intentions.

With different settings... I guess all the bets are open.

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The problem with this is Eva. Why was Eva outside the bomb radius? And if she was only by some coincidence, why would she hide the truth?
Yes, even if it was by coincidence she must believe she knew something that would be better to hide, expecially to Ange.
However it seems more likely she went there not by coincidence but by purpose and that, although it's possible she didn't know the full truth, the bit she knew was compromising enough for someone, likely either Kyrie or Rudolf.

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I'm not sure I can buy "fleeing" to Kuwadorian. The nature of the bomb makes that seem very unlikely. If you know the bomb is going to go off, and you have access to the tunnels, you have access to the switch. You can't run away from the bomb if you're anywhere near its radius when it goes off. It just isn't possible (see ep2 with Rosa etc.). If you know about it well in advance and other people are alive, you have time to either disable the bomb or - if you can't be sure which orientation is OFF and which is ON - gather everyone up and move them to Kuwadorian. Surely Eva and Battler would both have attempted to do this if they could have.

The problem then is why they couldn't. The only reasons I can think of either require that everyone else be dead or that Battler/Eva believes them all to be dead... but then the switch also still has to be set to blow, meaning someone has to have set it. The only people we know for certain know of the bomb are Yasu and Genji. If the deaths were faked, Yasu has no reason to set the bomb and Genji won't do it if he's not ordered to. If Yasu intends to kill everyone, then she has no reason to tell anyone about the bomb's existence and thus Battler/Eva should have no reason to believe they need to get to a safe distance.

That leaves open the prospect that Yasu told someone about it, like in ep7. But if she did, it means somebody found out about it and then decided to activate it. We can't be entirely sure why, but I don't buy the idea that someone would decide to go on a murder spree and use the bomb to cover it up, because it's implausible that someone would believe it would definitely work. You don't commit mass murder on a maybe. There are certainly other reasons to set it, but you'd think Yasu or Genji would check on it at some point just to be sure it's not on...
It can be the switch, after being turned on, broke, or that Battler and Eva were informed a bomb was about to explode but not where the switch was.

Still they would have tried to save the others if the others had been alive so the others need to be dead or at least assumed to be dead.
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Old 2013-09-29, 22:07   Link #33093
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I think Yasu had to tell somebody about the bomb. It's part and parcel of solving the epitaph, and there's too many hints in the Hachijo forgeries for someone not to have solved it (not to mention, if it isn't solved, what is Eva doing with the ring, and what are both of them doing in the tunnels?).

With everybody or nearly everybody else dead, I think that someone set the bomb in order to force Battler and Eva to escape, rather than load up on gold bricks or scour the island for a killer. If that someone was armed, and Eva for whatever reason wasn't (out of ammo?), that would easily rectify someone trying to go for the trigger.

If that someone was Yasu, that pretty much spells it out. Battler realizes (s)he's going to commit suicide, turns back, Yasu has to call an audible and leads him down to the sub base.
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Old 2013-09-30, 07:26   Link #33094
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With everybody or nearly everybody else dead, I think that someone set the bomb in order to force Battler and Eva to escape, rather than load up on gold bricks or scour the island for a killer. If that someone was armed, and Eva for whatever reason wasn't (out of ammo?), that would easily rectify someone trying to go for the trigger.

If that someone was Yasu, that pretty much spells it out. Battler realizes (s)he's going to commit suicide, turns back, Yasu has to call an audible and leads him down to the sub base.
That is actually not a bad idea and would kinda explain the whole situation at the end perfectly well. It actually ties in with a lot of ideas. Eva ending up at Kuwadorian alone, Battler ending up in a different place, Yasu's wish to return everything to the Golden land.

That would also kind of explain Eva saying that she "cannot say anything" and the whole idea of the union between BATTLER, Beatrice and Eva/EVA (with the agreement of the rest of the meta-cast) hinted at in EP8.
Shit goes down and people die but for some reason Yasu, Battler and Eva survive. They decide together to opt for the explosion to cover everything up and set the timer to explode. Yasu obviously would want to die with everybody, or rather go to her Golden Land, Battler would disagree and at least attempt to take her with him. While escaping something goes wrong...which could just be the tunnels collapsing when the explosion happens...and Eva is separated by being further ahead. Since she is the only one to be found the next morning, she believes Battler (and Yasu) to have died as well.

This is actually something that would almost (still in a twisted way though) would be able to explain Eva's weird behavior.
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Old 2013-09-30, 10:39   Link #33095
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It would; Eva would have survivor's guilt in that she knows Battler was alive and safe and innocent and she would believe that she could have or should have done something to keep him that way. I mean, how terrible would it be to have lived through a weekend of Hell only to manage to save Ange's brother, have him right there in front of you safe and sound... and then (as far as you know) lose him again? It would be especially bad if Eva was suspicious of or didn't really trust Yasu, as it would make her fear that she'd let Battler rush back into the arms of someone who would hurt him.

Or worse... what if Eva got the sense that both Battler and Yasu planned to commit suicide together? What if she sort of couldn't stop them, and in a way understood how they felt? I mean, there's no way she could ever explain to Ange that her brother killed himself and Eva let him do it. After the fact, she'd assuredly feel like she should've tried to stop them, even knowing she probably couldn't. Battler of course survived miraculously, but there's no way for Eva to know that.

So either way under such a scenario, Eva would feel pretty bad about it and explaining it to Ange would be nearly impossible until she's much, much older. Like not 18 older, more like 40 older. It's a very complicated situation that would almost certainly result in Ange exploding with rage that Eva didn't do something, and Eva wouldn't really be able to disagree with her.
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Old 2013-09-30, 19:07   Link #33096
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It would; Eva would have survivor's guilt in that she knows Battler was alive and safe and innocent and she would believe that she could have or should have done something to keep him that way. I mean, how terrible would it be to have lived through a weekend of Hell only to manage to save Ange's brother, have him right there in front of you safe and sound... and then (as far as you know) lose him again? It would be especially bad if Eva was suspicious of or didn't really trust Yasu, as it would make her fear that she'd let Battler rush back into the arms of someone who would hurt him.

Or worse... what if Eva got the sense that both Battler and Yasu planned to commit suicide together? What if she sort of couldn't stop them, and in a way understood how they felt? I mean, there's no way she could ever explain to Ange that her brother killed himself and Eva let him do it. After the fact, she'd assuredly feel like she should've tried to stop them, even knowing she probably couldn't. Battler of course survived miraculously, but there's no way for Eva to know that.

So either way under such a scenario, Eva would feel pretty bad about it and explaining it to Ange would be nearly impossible until she's much, much older. Like not 18 older, more like 40 older. It's a very complicated situation that would almost certainly result in Ange exploding with rage that Eva didn't do something, and Eva wouldn't really be able to disagree with her.
Yes, this theory would work pretty well witht he info we're given and the character behaviour of the guys.
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Old 2013-10-01, 03:34   Link #33097
Wanderer
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It's not a bad idea, but it's only like 10% of the problem. The hard part is explaining how everyone else ended up presumed dead.

And if Yasu is still alive at that time, it's very unlikely that she'd be under any mistaken impressions about who is really dead and who is really alive.
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Old 2013-10-01, 06:49   Link #33098
haguruma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
It's not a bad idea, but it's only like 10% of the problem. The hard part is explaining how everyone else ended up presumed dead.

And if Yasu is still alive at that time, it's very unlikely that she'd be under any mistaken impressions about who is really dead and who is really alive.
Actually it makes the situation a little less problematic, because a situation where somebody looses it and actually murders somebody by accident, which could trigger a chain reaction CAN happen and it doesn't depend as strongly on somebody who is sure to get away with something that horrible.
It doesn't need maniacally laughing Kyrie and Rudolph killing everybody in an insane killing spree, it'd just require them to and up in a messed up situation where they want to cover up their crimes and ended up being killed themselves or at least in such a compromising situation that Eva, Battler and Yasu would leave them to die.
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Old 2013-10-01, 11:18   Link #33099
jjblue1
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Honestly a fave solution of mine as a trigger is that Krauss were to commit suicide in order to confess the embellizment, spare himself from the shame and hope his siblings would pity Natsuhi and Jessica and not involve them and Natsuhi hides the suicide letter to avoid dishonour (or the letter falls somewhere and goes unseen) and blames the others for his death (because he somehow sounded like one who could commit suicide in EP 5).

Everyone would have to deal with someone who's clearly dead and, if they fail to realize it's a suicide or don't believe it as such, it can generate a quickly explosive situation.

The door was closed and only the servants have the key but they've no reason to kill Krauss unless they're insane so was it one of the siblings?
Eva would be the best candidate but Eva knows she didn't do it so was it Rudolf trying to frame her as he would be the next in line?
Or Natsuhi trying to get her hands on the inheritance?
And where's Kinzo in all this? Natsuhi won't manage to cover up his absence for long.
And Jessica is likely furious and desperate for her father's death and Rosa might not react well to seeing a corpse and what if Yasu had sent Beatrice's letter? Maybe she didn't aim to kill anyone but surely with a corpse around the letter seems to be involved.
Interesting enough, at the same time to see someone really dead might knock out of Yasu any murdering purpose she might have had.
Also, even if Nanjo were to say Krauss' death was suicide according to his inspection people might not believe him as he's been covering up for the lie of Kinzo being alive. So what would stop him from covering up for someone else?
And what if she was accused as the servant in the intro of Ep 7 and Battler insisted she was with him? How would George take it? What if it's George who covers for Yasu and Battler isn't just slightly jealous as in EP 7 Teaparty but a bit more angry than that?
And of course someone might notice Kanon is also missing...

There's enough to place everyone in an unpleasant position and, at the same time, make him suspicious of everyone else.
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Old 2013-10-04, 08:06   Link #33100
chaos_alfa
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It seems MangaGamer has began selling the Japanese version of Umineko on their site.
http://www.mangagamer.com/detail.php...roduct_code=93
http://www.mangagamer.com/detail.php...roduct_code=94

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2013-10-04 at 14:31.
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