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Old 2013-10-25, 13:00   Link #33161
GoldenLand
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Huh, you're right. I'm not a big fan of the ep 2 manga art, so I didn't read the whole thing through. But Yen Press really is only using bold text, not red text. It looks really silly that way. "From now on, WHEN I SPEAK THE TRUTH, I WILL USE BLACK BOLD CAPS." Unconvincing.

I'd been under the impression that the Japanese release uses real red text, but I can't confirm it.
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Old 2013-10-25, 15:44   Link #33162
musouka
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
I'd been under the impression that the Japanese release uses real red text, but I can't confirm it.
It doesn't.
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Old 2013-10-25, 16:11   Link #33163
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Scanlations changed it to red with image manipulation. Red ink is effin' expensive for manga printing, you guys.
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Old 2013-10-25, 16:30   Link #33164
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Going from B&W to any form of color would be wicked expensive, yes.

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In completely unrelated news, I still sometimes keep thinking about this stuff.
Spoiler for Red Truth, The Baby, Yasu's Lack of Self:
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2013-10-25, 17:31   Link #33165
erneiz_hyde
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That would also tie up the issue of when (or if) Beatrice 2 actually conceived, and if she already had, why she didn't show any consideration towards the child when Rosa took her out.

Gosh, that really explains a lot of things.
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Old 2013-10-25, 22:01   Link #33166
Wanderer
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Regarding Erika solving the logic error... I have and have read all 3 volumes of EP8 that have been released here in Japan, but that scene has yet to happen. Volume 3 ends when Ange realizes that "The Book of One Truth" is in the chapel, which happens before Battler and Erika have their logic duel. The back pages of volume 3 also say that volume 4 comes out in December.

So, I'm confused.
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Old 2013-10-25, 23:02   Link #33167
theacefrehley
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Huh, you're right. I'm not a big fan of the ep 2 manga art, so I didn't read the whole thing through. But Yen Press really is only using bold text, not red text. It looks really silly that way. "From now on, WHEN I SPEAK THE TRUTH, I WILL USE BLACK BOLD CAPS." Unconvincing.

I'd been under the impression that the Japanese release uses real red text, but I can't confirm it.
From what I remember
It uses symbols like ~~~~ beside the text, and assume this means RED
And then, something else for blue, gold, etc...
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Old 2013-10-26, 09:26   Link #33168
Cao Ni Ma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Regarding Erika solving the logic error... I have and have read all 3 volumes of EP8 that have been released here in Japan, but that scene has yet to happen. Volume 3 ends when Ange realizes that "The Book of One Truth" is in the chapel, which happens before Battler and Erika have their logic duel. The back pages of volume 3 also say that volume 4 comes out in December.

So, I'm confused.
Chinese versions. Chapter 19 was already released/leaked over there.
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Old 2013-10-26, 10:32   Link #33169
Wanderer
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Originally Posted by Cao Ni Ma View Post
Chinese versions. Chapter 19 was already released/leaked over there.
Even ahead of the official Japanese release?
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Old 2013-10-26, 12:01   Link #33170
Cao Ni Ma
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Even ahead of the official Japanese release?
I assume so yeah. Americans are a week ahead of most weekly series in japan already so I guess the chinese could have access to certain things even faster.
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Old 2013-10-26, 13:49   Link #33171
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Regarding Renall's post...Well, I don't really have any strong feelings on whether Yasu was really Beatrice's child or not (and I doubt Ryukishi really put that much thought into the applicability of the red statements beyond what they're specifically used to prove), but I think that most of what you've said about her there is a good insight into her character irrespective of whether she was or not, really. The angle that she was essentially a pawn who was manipulated into serving as Kinzo's redemption is definitely there even if she actually was his child, and I think you're definitely right in regards to the effect that learning about that had on her sense of self. Her feelings about "lacking a past" would have been present for a large part of her life anyway, considering that she thought herself an orphan, so what you say about Battler's promise giving her a prospect of stability also applies in that case.

I'm a little skeptical that it makes Battler in EP6 any less creepy, though. He was very much presented, at least in the early stages, as being actively angry that the new Beatrice wasn't the Beato that he remembered, and he undoubtedly made her feel like crap about that whether he meant to or not.
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Old 2013-10-26, 20:04   Link #33172
Wanderer
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Topic for discussion:

I think it's a fair assumption that in Prime George intended to propose to Shannon during the conference. Assuming he had his chance to do it, what was Shannon's on-the-spot reply; and what part, if any, did Shannon's answer have in the tragedy?
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Old 2013-10-27, 00:11   Link #33173
Ayu-ayu
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Has anyone noted and/or commented on the fact that the message bottles exclude Ange, even though her falling sick caused her no-show only at the very last minute?

I can kind of rationalize some of the other things to a certain extent, like predicting the typhoon, but it seems to me that if anything, Yasu would have highly anticipated Ange's inclusion in the 1986 visit, particularly after her being one of the factors (along with the loss of Sakutarou, Rosa's abuse and the family's constant denial of a witch that she had personally met) that provoked Maria in 1985 into a rage against her relatives around when she met with Beatrice (probably adding much to Yasu's plot material at this point in particular). Not getting Ange to cooperate and come meet Beatrice must have been a real added blow for Maria after all that. I'm sure after their talks, Yasu would have written her plots to include Ange as well in some capacity.

To me, this along with some of the more awkward-to-predict portions of the tale make me really suspect that the first two bottles were written after the event (partial possible evidence of Yasu-Ikuko). They were not found immediately after the incident, after all.
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Old 2013-10-27, 00:14   Link #33174
Ayu-ayu
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Wanderer, do you read the manga in the original magazine publication? Those chapters are published in magazine serial format before being compiled into tankoban books. Episode 8 in particular is published chapter-by-chapter in GanGan Joker magazine, and probably has a simultaneous (or nearly so) release in Taiwan.
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Old 2013-10-27, 01:46   Link #33175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu View Post
To me, this along with some of the more awkward-to-predict portions of the tale make me really suspect that the first two bottles were written after the event (partial possible evidence of Yasu-Ikuko). They were not found immediately after the incident, after all.
While Ange's not inclusion is a little bit hard to swallow, you could say she was either written out at the last minute (considering that she's a 6 year old child at that point, not impossible, since her influence would be marginal at best) or something else made it likely for her not to come.

The first message bottle was btw found adrift in the sea directly after the incident on the next morning when the police was searching the waters around Rokkenjima. It was taken up as evidence but not released as information to the public until the fisherman went out into the open with the bottle he found later on.
Also, research on the bottle and the cork apparently made it clear that the bottle was sealed around the time of the incident.
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Old 2013-10-27, 02:34   Link #33176
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I do think that when Ryu made his "Angie missed a lot of conferences as she was often sick" comment he was trying to hand-wave Yasu leaving her out of the stories.
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Old 2013-10-27, 03:33   Link #33177
Wanderer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu View Post
Wanderer, do you read the manga in the original magazine publication? Those chapters are published in magazine serial format before being compiled into tankoban books. Episode 8 in particular is published chapter-by-chapter in GanGan Joker magazine, and probably has a simultaneous (or nearly so) release in Taiwan.
Ah thank you. That explains it.
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Old 2013-10-27, 03:54   Link #33178
Drifloon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Topic for discussion:

I think it's a fair assumption that in Prime George intended to propose to Shannon during the conference. Assuming he had his chance to do it, what was Shannon's on-the-spot reply; and what part, if any, did Shannon's answer have in the tragedy?
Considering the huge amount of variations we see on that scene, and how consistent her response is throughout all of them, I really can't see that Ryukishi would have intended her real response to be anything else.

Yasu was unable to choose a single fate, but she wouldn't have actively cut off a possibility either, so even if she didn't put the ring on right there, she probably at least agreed to think about it. I can't really see her ever being assertive enough to definitively refuse him.
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Old 2013-10-27, 15:08   Link #33179
jjblue1
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Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Even ahead of the official Japanese release?
They're behind actually. On the magazines we're already at chap 21 of Ep 8. On Thumblr someone took pics of the best moments. It's not the whole chapter, just some scenes and I can't read Japanese but Erika tossed many reds about the mystery, some of which Battler countered with red but in the end it seems he couldn't counter his last one and was about to end up falling in the goats' arms/mouths when Beato catched him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Topic for discussion:

I think it's a fair assumption that in Prime George intended to propose to Shannon during the conference. Assuming he had his chance to do it, what was Shannon's on-the-spot reply; and what part, if any, did Shannon's answer have in the tragedy?
Although George's role in the tragedy is only denied in virtue of pinning the blame on Battler likely if he intended to propose he would have caused troubles for Shannon as this would force her to tell him the truth sooner or later and although Ryukishi said he might have accepted it, if I were in Shannon's place in her place I wouldn't be so sure of it.
After all Umineko said something mysterious was going to happen regardless of Battler's return but it would have been tamer. My guess is that the something mysterious would have been the disappearance of Shannon and possibly of Kanon.
Honestly, although I think she would have liked to marry him, I fear she wouldn't have had the guts to be honest with him and tell him the truth or wait for him to find out.
So probably she would have said yes to him but this wouldn't mean she would have been there when he would leave Rokkenjima.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu View Post
Has anyone noted and/or commented on the fact that the message bottles exclude Ange, even though her falling sick caused her no-show only at the very last minute?

I can kind of rationalize some of the other things to a certain extent, like predicting the typhoon, but it seems to me that if anything, Yasu would have highly anticipated Ange's inclusion in the 1986 visit, particularly after her being one of the factors (along with the loss of Sakutarou, Rosa's abuse and the family's constant denial of a witch that she had personally met) that provoked Maria in 1985 into a rage against her relatives around when she met with Beatrice (probably adding much to Yasu's plot material at this point in particular). Not getting Ange to cooperate and come meet Beatrice must have been a real added blow for Maria after all that. I'm sure after their talks, Yasu would have written her plots to include Ange as well in some capacity.

To me, this along with some of the more awkward-to-predict portions of the tale make me really suspect that the first two bottles were written after the event (partial possible evidence of Yasu-Ikuko). They were not found immediately after the incident, after all.
The predicted typhon is apparently part of the setting of the Rokkenjima world. The parents complain they usually happen when they've a meeting and suggest the meeting should be moved to another date from now on, though they don't feel up to go and tell this out loud to Kinzo.

Interesting enough it seems in real Japan typhons in that zone aren't so common... but evidently prime is a bit different from real Japan.

As for Ange my feeling was when Yasu hired/bribed the siblings she also demanded they'll let Ange home as Ange had been written out of Marriage sorciere and couldn't be allowed to reach the golden land.

My feeling is that Beato was informed about Ange denying Sakutarou by Maria as it likely happened in Rokkenjima.
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Old 2013-10-28, 05:41   Link #33180
Wanderer
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Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
Interesting enough it seems in real Japan typhons in that zone aren't so common... but evidently prime is a bit different from real Japan.
Assuming real world standards of typhoon frequency:

It's about 1 a year, or maybe 2 since Rokkenjima is a bit further out than the Japanese mainland.

Typhoon season is a couple of months long. To change the date of the conference to avoid typhoons it would have to be a completely different time of year.

Interestingly enough, there's been, I think, 3 typhoons here in Nagano, Japan, during the last few months (typhoon season). Locals say about 1 a year is average, here.
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