AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-11-27, 02:07   Link #3661
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maho Momo View Post
It doesn't really make sense to me that his portrait is painted with a black cape but he doesn't get one on his sprite. It can't take that long just to add a cape to the back of the sprite... I wonder why Ryukishi didn't just add it in. ^^;
Ryukishi is lazy 8|

Besides doing all of this in a span of four months I think we can live without a sprite edit.
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 03:39   Link #3662
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
Given the way Ep5 ended, it'd blow my balls if Battler got a new sprite.
MeoTwister5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 03:58   Link #3663
ijriims
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
I supposed Shannon and Kanon would be framed as the final culprits in EP6 while George and Jessica would be defending them, and then Ryukishi07 (Battler) would just smash the whole "Kanon-Jessica=Beatrice" and "George-Shannon=Beatrice" theories. Of course they were not innocent, but they were merely the pawns moved by the Real Beatrice.

About the screenshots from EP6, A new 1998 after Ep5?

I wondered who would have surprised both Bern and Lambda. I guessed it was hair-down Beato but now completely different from who Bern and Lambda had know(thus the trolling face Beato in the boxcover), and they questioned who was taking the image of Beato.

(Or it was the Creator?)

Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-27 at 04:47.
ijriims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 04:29   Link #3664
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
So far, "Kyrie=Beatrice=Sumadera's spy" hypothesis seemed to be surviving all EP5 and EP6.
Aren't we full of ourselves today?

Your pet theory hasn't been addressed yet, yes, and probably isn't ever going to be. It's entirely too far-fetched and is based off of no information, hinted or otherwise. (At least Shannontrice has in-game support and Jessitrice actually makes a lick of sense).

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but your comment just strikes me as REALLY arrogant... I apologize if I've caused too much offense.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 04:39   Link #3665
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
Watching episode 22, I sort of remembered that Ep4 was the first real hint at suggesting that the first 6 murders were never really planned at all. Ep4's first murders were the first concrete revelation that it was more of a crime of opportunity than of direct intent.

For all intents and purposes, some months back I've already decided to consider most of the initial murders to be purely by chance, that is, being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe 1 or 2 of those were intended, but not all of them. It's as if the others deaths were collateral damage so to speak, not for the intent of killing a specific person, but to simply kill someone whoever it is.

Spoiler for Ep5 spoilers:


In a way it does make some sort of connection to the epitaph patterns, a theory that has been all but discarded for most of us, but it does raise some concerns regarding a single mastermind behind the first murders. If this person does not intend to kill specific people or a specific number of people, then it might mean that the sheer number of deaths is irrelevant to this person's goal.
MeoTwister5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 04:48   Link #3666
ijriims
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Aren't we full of ourselves today?

Your pet theory hasn't been addressed yet, yes, and probably isn't ever going to be. It's entirely too far-fetched and is based off of no information, hinted or otherwise. (At least Shannontrice has in-game support and Jessitrice actually makes a lick of sense).
Too arrogant, indeed. So I removed it.

Anyway, what does pet theory mean? You meant Maria as pet? or what? I don't understand.

(Though I am quite confident Shannontrice and Jessitrice would be smashed in EP6, judging from the gamecover. My claim that Kyrie was a spy from Sumadera family was indeed too speculative, without much evidence at all, it was referring to the motive part only. My baseline is Kyrie being Beatrice and final culprit. )

@MeoTwister5: In EP1, Battler overhearded that Kanon said Shannon should not be the one chosen in the first twilight and then Genji commented that it was all by chance. I supposed it was the earliest hint that the victims in the first twilight were not specific from the beginning.

Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-27 at 05:13.
ijriims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 04:54   Link #3667
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
Anyway, what does pet theory mean?
A theory that its creator is overly fond of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijriims View Post
(Though I am quite confident Shannontrice and Jessitrice would be smashed in EP6, judging from the gamecover)
I'm not so sure of that. Don't be so sure of things like this.

Shannontrice would be piece-Beatrice, not (exactly) meta-Beatrice, don't forget.

Furthermore... if Shannon and Kanon are disproved as culprits here, well... Ep1 is almost unsolvable.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 04:59   Link #3668
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
Well my point is that this is the first real time the "culprit" reveals (at least through magical scenes) that s/he doesn't care who gets hit rather than some systematic model "randomization". Just fire and hit something.

Also should Ep6 actually disprove Shannon and Kanon as culprits, I still have one theory for Ep1, but it's hanging on by a thread at this point.
MeoTwister5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:03   Link #3669
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well my point is that this is the first real time the "culprit" reveals (at least through magical scenes) that s/he doesn't care who gets hit rather than some systematic model "randomization". Just fire and hit something.
The issue I'm kinda having with this is that... what is the culprit's goal, if they're not following the epitaph and they're not intending to kill specific people?

If they simply want people, no matter who, to die?

This is a classical mystery. There has to be a realistic motive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Also should Ep6 actually disprove Shannon and Kanon as culprits, I still have one theory for Ep1, but it's hanging on by a thread at this point.
Could you please elaborate? I'd like to hear it.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:07   Link #3670
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Furthermore... if Shannon and Kanon are disproved as culprits here, well... Ep1 is almost unsolvable.
I was thinking about Chronotrig's theory that the EP5 magic battle in Kinzo's study in the dirty trick Ryukishi played on us. The implications of this being true is that the detective's perspective is not trustworthy. Every scene that is not backed by red truth can be false.

I really hope that's not true because that would make things ten times more difficult than they already are. However, at the same time, it opens the door for more theories. In fact, an infinite number of theories.

Assuming that theory is true why would Beatrice play this kind of a trick on Battler if she's trying to show him the truth?

Personally, I don't agree that the EP5 battle is the trick. I think that battle happened in the detective's presence because the perspective of the people who's thoughts we follow (Mostly Battler and Natsuhi in episode 5) became untrustworthy. I don't know if what I typed made any sense but yeah...
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:08   Link #3671
ijriims
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
A theory that its creator is overly fond of.



I'm not so sure of that. Don't be so sure of things like this.

Shannontrice would be piece-Beatrice, not (exactly) meta-Beatrice, don't forget.

Furthermore... if Shannon and Kanon are disproved as culprits here, well... Ep1 is almost unsolvable.
"I'm not so sure of that. Don't be so sure of things like this." Of course it was my personal judgment, you don't need to agree to this.

Who don't love their own theories or hypotheses, until proven wrong (and sometimes, even after proven wrong)?

By Shannontrice and Jessitrice I meant theories basing on Shannon and Jessica being real Beatrice respectively.

Meta-Beatrice were much more than real Beatrice but embracing all Beatrices (cliff-falling one, Kinzo's secret lover, Maria's master, Murderer). You knew even when I said Kyrie=Beatrice I was talking about Kyrie being the real Beatrice, not meta-Beatrice.

-----------------------------

I have some new thoughts on EP1:

The scene after 23:59:59 Oct 5 was already fantasy scene. Actually Battler and other people were already killed when we were shown the scene where Maria ran to Beatrice. It was supported in the anime that no Beatrice came out in the end of Ep1.

Natsuhi was probably killed by Konan. But I don't think he staked Genji and the other twos in the parlor. But someone must have done it....

Unsolved yet. If the red texts concerning the body-double tricks only applied to 6th-8th twilights, then any people from the first twilights could be the murderer (of course excluding Gohda and Krauss).
------------------------------

@MeoTwister5:

If you think that Ronove represented Genji while Virgilia represented Kumasawa (Who knows who represent Gaap in this case? Shannon? Jessica? Kyrie? Rosa? The personality did not need to be matched, just see Kumasawa and Virglia). Then it implied that Genji was not killed in the first twilight at all. In fact, there could be no first twilight at all.

Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-27 at 06:36.
ijriims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:12   Link #3672
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
I was thinking about Chronotrig's theory that the EP5 magic battle in Kinzo's study in the dirty trick Ryukishi played on us. The implications of this being true is that the detective's perspective is not trustworthy. Every scene that is not backed by red truth can be false.
Oh god... Please, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
I really hope that's not true because that would make things ten times more difficult than they already are. However, at the same time, it opens the door for more theories. In fact an infinite number of theories.
Which reduces the game to a text document. Which is stupid.

Most entertaining game. Ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Assuming that theory is true why would Beatrice play this kind of a trick on Battler if she's trying to show him the truth.
Actually, I've been saying this before, but...

How do we know for certain that Beatrice is trying to show Battler the truth at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Personally, I don't agree that the EP5 battle is the trick. I think that battle happened in the detective's presence because the perspective of the people who's thoughts we follow (Mostly Battler and Natsuhi in episode 5) became untrustworthy. I don't know if what I typed made any sense but yeah...
We've had unreliable omniscient narration since Ep3, so why not?


...You know, honestly, as I have felt many times, I'm feeling the desire to simply give up on Umineko entirely, because I get the strong impression that your theory is actually true, given Ep2's ending in particular.

And if it's true, which I am becoming more certain by the moment that it is, this isn't worth the effort anymore.

What on earth does Ryukishi think he's doing? If the detective's perspective is as unreliable as anything else, everything that ever happens might as well be completely false, making the entire game a complete waste of time.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:18   Link #3673
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
Well by the end Ep54 and reinforced by Ep5 that everyone should have known that practically no POV and no narration is perfectly omniscient and perfectly reliable. Not Battler's nor Beato's.

As for my theory, it's more of the mastermind than the specific culprit. Suffice to say my initial assumptions on either of the younger servants being the culprits were similar to a theory posted in the boards a while back but I can't dig for it.

Should the two not be the specific instigators, I still believe they can be conspirators and possibly been responsible for at least 1 murder per person. My mastermind for this?

George.
MeoTwister5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:19   Link #3674
Ssol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
How do we know for certain that Beatrice is trying to show Battler the truth at all?
Virgilia to Battler: Beato hoped for you to solve this game, and she created it… created the riddle of this story, so that it was solvable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...You know, honestly, as I have felt many times, I'm feeling the desire to simply give up on Umineko entirely, because I get the strong impression that your theory is actually true, given Ep2's ending in particular.

And if it's true, which I am becoming more certain by the moment that it is, this isn't worth the effort anymore.

What on earth does Ryukishi think he's doing? If the detective's perspective is as unreliable as anything else, everything that ever happens might as well be completely false, making the entire game a complete waste of time.
I totally agree if this is the trick, I'm done....

Actually, I'll still probably play to the end but I'll be pissed off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well by the end Ep54 and reinforced by Ep5 that everyone should have known that practically no POV and no narration is perfectly omniscient and perfectly reliable. Not Battler's nor Beato's.

As for my theory, it's more of the mastermind than the specific culprit. Suffice to say my initial assumptions on either of the younger servants being the culprits were similar to a theory posted in the boards a while back but I can't dig for it.

Should the two not be the specific instigators, I still believe they can be conspirators and possibly been responsible for at least 1 murder per person. My mastermind for this?

George.
There is still a motive problem in my opinion. Obviously someone sent the messages in the bottles before Oct. 4 so if this was all planned well in advance, why would he do it?
__________________
[...]
Ssol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:22   Link #3675
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well by the end Ep54 and reinforced by Ep5 that everyone should have known that practically no POV and no narration is perfectly omniscient and perfectly reliable. Not Battler's nor Beato's.
No. If even the detective's perspective cannot be trusted, then it follows that everything but the red must automatically be considered as fake.

Making the game no longer a game, period. There's no longer a story, just a series of colored lines and notes detailing the context in which they are used.

I have suddenly become very angry at Ryukishi and am more certain than ever that he's a complete and utter hack of a writer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
George.
I do love how no one suspected the guy before his crazyfaces in Ep4... and I agree with you that he's probably involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Virgilia to Battler: Beato hoped for you to solve this game, and she created it… created the riddle of this story, so that it was solvable.
Oh, okay. So no troll.

Maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
I totally agree if this is the trick, I'm done....

Actually, I'll still probably play to the end but I'll be pissed off.
Yeah, despite my grumbling, I really can't give it up at this point, and I'll be equally pissed off.

We do, however, have several saving graces. Before Ep5's release, Ryukishi was talking about a "trap"... and now he's talking about a "venomous trick" that was originally in Ep3.

This trap and this trick are the same thing.


And if it's related to what was originally Ep3... it can't be the revelation that the detective's perspective is unreliable, because that would change everything, and render future episodes almost useless.

And I agree with what you said earlier... Erika's perspective wasn't used in that scene, correct? As long as the scene is not from the detective's first-person perspective, it can be regarded as fake.

That's better.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:35   Link #3676
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
The issue isn't whether or not it's a black and white decision of trust, rather knowing of how to trust. Just because it's red doesn't mean you can trust it outright without question, as many reds have already been questioned on their authenticity. Likewise, just ebcause it's not red doesn't mean not true.

If there's one thing I got out of Ep5, it's the warning that all of us have become too complacent as to surrender our trust in the red and, as a result, "stopped thinking." Ep5 more than any other episode put red in a more negative light, forcing me to rethink the approach to the red.

From there I got reminded that as with any mystery, everything has always been on the shoulders of the reader to use his mind and figure things out by his own detective's eye. It just so happens that the red text became something of a guard rail, and Ep5 has Ryukishi reminding his readers not follow the red like it's some sort of bible. The red is there to give some semblance of direction, but it's still up to the reader to find his own way through.

And this entails figuring things out for yourself, rather than having the red validate everything. Remember again that Beato herself says the red is a double edged sword and this likewise applies to the readers. Over-reliance on the red is the same as ignoring it completely. The red text is advice, not a master. At the end, it's what you choose and think for both normal and red text that matters.

Frankly speaking, I believe that it's those people who find this balance who will be able to discover the truth of Rokkenjima WAAAAAAAY before it gets spoonfed to everyone else.

This is precisely what I've been intending to do since I finished Ep5, as reflected by me not posting much on my own thoughts and ideas, which is why when I post something I rarely ever elucidate it in red or blue as to reflect this belief. Evidence before red, in my opinion.
MeoTwister5 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:40   Link #3677
Dlanor .A. Nox
The Death!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
Was there any red that said anything about the chain lock from Ep 1 where Eva and Hideyoshi were murdered? Cause I think that the Chain itself is compromised. Magnets are an easy way of giving the illusion of a solid lock even a good tug can't dislodge a decently powered magnet.

Oh yeah about the murder weapon I think I have a good idea that's basic and easy to explain. A pneumatic type of launcher akin to a potato launcher or something to that effect it's quiet and fits the way Kanon was killed a quiet stake to the chest. Noise makers were probably used to get Kanon to face the certain direction where the killer waited.

Feel free to shoot it down lol I had these ideas floating around for awhile in my head.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic100082_1.gif
Dlanor .A. Nox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:40   Link #3678
ijriims
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
On theories basing on George being mastermind:

Motives

1.The Gold?

2.To get rid of his parents because they opposed to his and Shannon's marriage?

3.To get rid of his parents because they were manipulative bastards

These are the three motives I could have thought of. But honestly, a human who was willing to kill his parents and the whole family for money and to get freed, while being able to fake the tears so perfectly, was just a monster. I doubt Ryukishi07 would invoke such a downturn (though it was certainly a powerful twist.). If it was the 1st motive, then Shannon should not have found the gold as she would offer the gold instantly and George had no reason to kill anyone in this case.

And the 3rd motive actually did not make sense. IF George merely want to kill his parents, certainly there was a lot of chance then to kill them when the island had become a closed room. And why would he also have to kill the other family members was beyond me to think about....

For killing the family because of his love affairs? This did not make sense since the killing was planned before the Oct4 while he was shown to propose on Oct4. It meant he assumed Shannon was willing to marry him AND his parents would oppose to the marriage so he planned the killing beforehand.

Of course, if I could think out some more motives, then the problem is solved. (However, to say that George did the killing because Shannon wanted him to do would make Shannon being the mastermind rather than George)

Enough on motives, let's talk about methods.

Methods:

Obviously, if George was indeed the mastermind, then he did need to have accomplice as he had alibi most of the time. Shannon probably was his accomplice, then Kanon could also be recruited as he was willing to help his sister. Nanjo was probably also accomplice concerning the situation in EP1. Maria was unwitting accomplice as Shannon was Beatrice here.

Then let's see how the murders were executed:

In EP1, Shannon and Kanon killed the five and then faked her death by using her own body. Definitely how Shannon could put up such amazing make-up was puzzling but let's assume Hideyoshi did not look at Shannon's face closely enough. George did put up an Oscar-winning acting here...

Then, Shannon killed George's both parents and hid under the bed (if Genji was not accomplice). They have moved the body of Kinzo beforehand and then Kanon faked his death in the boiling room as well. (You know, Nanjo was the doctor)

Then, when the group started locking themselves in Kinzo's study. Either Maria or Nanjo put the letter on the table and got kicked out. Then either Shannon or Kanon killed the three in the parlor while lurking Natsuhi out and killed her as well.

What's next? George showed his true face and killed the remaining people? Finally only George and Shannon was alive with their happy (and bloody) ending?

This concluded the EP1.

EP2:

George ordered Shannon to impose as Beatrice and scare Rosa to the bone. And then he ordered her to kill the six while excluding Rosa, so to frame her. (Hey, there were three gold bars on the table. So someone must have solved the epitaph. Who was that person? Shannon? In this case, money could not be George's goal as he could take the gold legitimately if Shannon had solved the epitaph without risking his and Shannon's life to murder people)

Then what? Shannon secretly killed Kanon and Jessica (I presumed Kanon wanted to protect Jessica here so was killed because of it), Genji was turning a blind eye? Then for some mysterious reason Rosa said Genji and Shannon had alibi even though she knew Kinzo was not in his study at all.

In the case of servant's room. Shannon killed Kumasawa and told Nanjo to pretend death? Then Nanjo opened the door and carried Kumasawa's body away? She latter murdered also Nanjo and placed all the bodies in the inner garden.

Then here comes the mysterious case of Natsuhi's room. Presumably, George, Shannon and Gohda entered Natsuhi's room and George locked it up. Shannon attempted to murder Gohda but was struck back in the forehead? Then George attacked but was also wounded in the abdomen? Fortunately, he killed Gohda successfuly but unfortunate enough to die shortly afterwards.

Then it must be Genji putting those blood hands paint on the Natsuhi's room. It could not make sense if Genji was not an accomplice. But then why George did not call Genji into the room as well when they tried to finish off Gohda was a mystery to me.

And why put up the paint? To make it more scarer?

In the end, somehow a disaster (I preferred landslide here) broke out and killed everyone remained? (In this case, George and Shannon could not have survived in the end of EP1 as well, assuming this natural disaster occurred everytime at 00:00-00:01 Oct6)

EP2 Ends.

----------------------------------To be continued-----------------------------------------------

Last edited by ijriims; 2009-11-27 at 11:34.
ijriims is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:43   Link #3679
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
*snip*
...Yeah, no... that's not what I'm getting at here.


If the detective's perspective is as unreliable as everything else is, then we no longer have any indication of whether or not a scene is fake to begin with, magic or no.

Therefore, because we are naturally suspicious of fake scenes in Umineko, we instantly suspect every single scene, ever, of being a complete and utter lie. As a result, we begin to rely entirely on the red.

Ep5 brought into question the validity of red text. Now we can't trust that either.

Now, to continue my text document analogy from earlier, I am now not even reading lines of colored text with little descriptions, I am reading a goddamn blank piece of paper.

Which I then tear in two, crumple in half, and thrown in the trash.


You see why I am a little upset at this idea? It's not as through I would automatically regard everything not in red as false, it's simply that I have no idea where to start if there is no indication of anything being true to begin with.

Furthermore, I still don't believe we truly have enough information to solve the mystery even now. Or, rather, that even if we do have enough information, it's impossible to find the Answer due to some block in our collective thinking.

We need to start thinking outside Schrodinger's catbox, methinks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlanor .A. Nox View Post
Was there any red that said anything about the chain lock from Ep 1 where Eva and Hideyoshi were murdered? Cause I think that the Chain itself is compromised. Magnets are an easy way of giving the illusion of a solid lock even a good tug can't dislodge a decently powered magnet.
Unless Shannon was hiding in the room somewhere, yeah, it's just about the only way.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-11-27, 05:43   Link #3680
ijriims
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
Maybe the trick is:

ONLY BEATRICE's, RONOVE's, THE STAKES', GAAP's, VERGILIA's, ANGE's, MARIA's (if she would use) red texts could be trusted and interpreted at face value. (Wait, wasn't the red text "no more than 19 people were on the island" a trick to Battler already? If not for Kyrie...)

Lambda's and Bern's? You needed to put some salt into theirs.
ijriims is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.