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Old 2010-03-23, 17:05   Link #6781
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
All I'll say about the gold text is that you can figure out how it works before reading EP5. It's actually pretty simple.
So are you saying that you've actually figured it out?
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Old 2010-03-23, 17:34   Link #6782
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
So are you saying that you've actually figured it out?
That IS what he's saying. I don't believe it, though.
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Old 2010-03-23, 18:39   Link #6783
chronotrig
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Just to be safe, let's say I've found a possible solution for all the mysteries. Like Featherinne said, it's impossible to prove that "the answer" is the right one when you find it. In a way, that's a hint about the answer itself. However, the theory I've created gives an explanation for every closed room, every meta-scene, the backstory, the rules of the game, and most if not all of the cryptic comments made in several parts throughout the game. Oh, and all the cryptic comments Ryuukishi has made about the games. This includes both the question arcs and the core arcs so far. And of course, I have arguments backed up with evidence for all of these things.

However, I know for a fact that there are least two ways to explain all of these things. One of them is more obvious but a lot less neat than the other. Knowing Ryuukishi, there's a chance that my entire theory now is just one step on the path to the final answer. Still, I have proof that this is a step he intended us to reach at some point.

As for the gold, I'm pretty much 100% certain I know what that is.
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Last edited by chronotrig; 2010-03-23 at 18:53.
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Old 2010-03-23, 18:59   Link #6784
Midnight Bliss
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Will you post and share your theory, or keep it hidden? I'm curious, myself, and this is a thread to make theories so xD but I understand if you don't want to influence other people and such or of the sort.
But yeah, Ryukishi can come up with a troll any moment, haha.
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Old 2010-03-23, 20:36   Link #6785
Ssol
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Originally Posted by Midnight Bliss View Post
Will you post and share your theory, or keep it hidden? I'm curious, myself, and this is a thread to make theories so xD but I understand if you don't want to influence other people and such or of the sort.
But yeah, Ryukishi can come up with a troll any moment, haha.
Writing out a detailed explanation for every mystery and every closed room for each game is quite difficult. I think he's posted enough of his theory for us to fill in the rest of the blanks.
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Old 2010-03-23, 20:38   Link #6786
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Writing out a detailed explanation for every mystery and every closed room for each game is quite difficult. I think he's posted enough of his theory for us to fill in the rest of the blanks.
Uh, like I said though, a lot of the stuff I've posted is incorrect, some of it provably so. So take it with a grain of salt.
I've chosen to stop posting my theories, and even deleted my last few posts since they went a bit too far. The final answer won't be out for most of a year, and this seems like the best way to keep spoilers off the web and let people solve it for themselves. It wouldn't do anyone any good if I posted my theory.
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Old 2010-03-23, 20:47   Link #6787
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Uh, like I said though, a lot of the stuff I've posted is incorrect, some of it provably so. So take it with a grain of salt.
I've chosen to stop posting my theories, and even deleted my last few posts since they went a bit too far. The final answer won't be out for most of a year, and this seems like the best way to keep spoilers off the web and let people solve it for themselves. It wouldn't do anyone any good if I posted my theory.
I've seen people say things like this before. Unless you provide us with some concrete proof that you've solved everything, you merely look like one of those idiots who only asserts that he's solved everything just so he can go "I KNEW IT ALL ALONG" when the answers are finally revealed.

Not that I'm saying that you're actually doing this, but that's what it looks like from my point of view.

If you're that certain of what the gold text is, you could, at least, post it for those interested under several layers of spoilers, thus both giving us ignorant masses something to work with and also proving that you've reached the truth, since you're so positive about that and all.

Thanks for your time. Again, I mean no insult here. I just want some clarification.
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Old 2010-03-23, 20:55   Link #6788
Judoh
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I still don't get how Battler can find the truth in your theories really. He never saw anything in 1998 so he doesn't have as much as you do to go on. That and well your random announcements about how you think you've solved just about everything and have it all backed up does make you sound a lot like your being pretentious. No offense that's just the vibe I get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
this seems like the best way to keep spoilers off the web and let people solve it for themselves. It wouldn't do anyone any good if I posted my theory.
see don't you think it seems that way? Especially since your head translator? You come off as if your looking down at us.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:01   Link #6789
Ssol
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Uh, like I said though, a lot of the stuff I've posted is incorrect, some of it provably so. So take it with a grain of salt.
I've chosen to stop posting my theories, and even deleted my last few posts since they went a bit too far. The final answer won't be out for most of a year, and this seems like the best way to keep spoilers off the web and let people solve it for themselves. It wouldn't do anyone any good if I posted my theory.
Well, thank you posting it anyway. It's a theory I hadn't seen before and makes sense for the most part. Again, I think you've done a fantasic job.

Regarding gold truth, my theory is that it is the truth from the author's perspective. If you know who the author of the story is in my theory then you've reached the answer already.

I think it's weaker than the red truth in the case of the candy under the cup. Regardless of whether or not candy was actually under the cup, the truth the author wanted to convey was that candy was made by magic under the cup.

For Kinzo's corpse it was stronger than red truth. Throughout the games it's been clear that the author's message was that the corpse in the boiler room was Kinzo's. However, there was no way to prove that the end of episode 5 given only the clues for episode 5. Understanding the clues given by the author of the story throughout the games allowed the gold truth to be used.

Edit: By the way, for those who are bashing Chronotrig's theory please post your first. Thank you
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:05   Link #6790
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I still don't get how Battler can find the truth in your theories really. He never saw anything in 1998 so he doesn't have as much as you do to go on. That and well your random announcements about how you think you've solved just about everything and have it all backed up does make you sound a lot like your being pretentious. No offense that's just the vibe I get.

see don't you think it seems that way? Especially since your head translator? You come off as if your looking down at us.
My reason is that a lot of people have started doubting whether the game really is solvable from just EP1-4 information. Hell, people have always doubted that.

However, if you won't take the word of the guy who made the game, maybe some people will take my word for it. There's no reason to give up on this series. There is a fair answer.

Oh, and you might want to go back and check your facts about that particular bit.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:06   Link #6791
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
He never saw anything in 1998 so he doesn't have as much as you do to go on.
Oddly enough, he did. You can see a couple of 1998 screenshots during his flashbacks at the end of Ep5.

Of course, this makes no sense with what we now know about that world and Featherine...

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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
You come off as if your looking down at us.
Yes, it sounds extremely elitist.

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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Understanding the clues given by the author of the story throughout the games allowed the gold truth to be used.
The problem with all these gold truth theories... all of them make sense to a certain extent.

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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
My reason is that a lot of people have started doubting whether the game really is solvable from just EP1-4 information. Hell, people have always doubted that.
Means and those involved? Easily solvable. Motive? Not so much. You'd have to extrapolate a LOT to figure out motive from the first four games alone.

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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Edit: By the way, for those who are bashing Chronotrig's theory please post your first. Thank you
Sure.

All the servants (including Gohda, who's being pressured into accomplicehood) are the culprits at various times. Nanjo is the main killer for Ep3. Ep4 is the result of failed Halloween pranks and a shootout between the family members and the servants. Shannon and Kanon are different people, and their real names are "Kinzo Ushiromiya" and "Erika Ushiromiya". Either Kyrie, George, or perhaps Asumu (who is on Nijima) is the mastermind.

That's just a bit of the stuff I've put together. No, I don't have a motive, but to be frank, to only solve the MYSTERY we're presented with, I don't need one.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:16   Link #6792
Judoh
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
My reason is that a lot of people have started doubting whether the game really is solvable from just EP1-4 information. Hell, people have always doubted that.

However, if you won't take the word of the guy who made the game, maybe some people will take my word for it. There's no reason to give up on this series. There is a fair answer.
Um Sure maybe they did for awhile, but regardless of whether you or the author say it's solvable or not Virgilia already said the game was solvable in red in the game. That's all any of use needed I think. It's not like she can lie about that in red. The way you did it just after proposing a theory just seemed arrogant to me. It wasn't necessary at all.

Quote:
Oh, and you might want to go back and check your facts about that particular bit.
That was unnecessary wasn't it? Well either way I don't see it the same way you do. No point in arguing over how Battler would reach conclusions.

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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Edit: By the way, for those who are bashing Chronotrig's theory please post your first. Thank you
I'm not bashing his theory I'm pointing out his attitude about it. I don't agree with him sure, and I don't agree with you all the time either. His theory about magic and furniture can apply to just about any character though in my opinion if you interpret it in your own way. Just like the red. I'll be posting my own theories too as time goes on. I got at least a year and half to figure it all out...
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:20   Link #6793
Ssol
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
All the servants (including Gohda, who's being pressured into accomplicehood) are the culprits at various times. Nanjo is the main killer for Ep3. Ep4 is the result of failed Halloween pranks and a shootout between the family members and the servants. Shannon and Kanon are different people, and their real names are "Kinzo Ushiromiya" and "Erika Ushiromiya". Either Kyrie, George, or perhaps Asumu (who is on Nijima) is the mastermind.

That's just a bit of the stuff I've put together. No, I don't have a motive, but to be frank, to only solve the MYSTERY we're presented with, I don't need one.
Well it does sound good and I'd love to hear more details on it if possible.

The biggest problem I've found trying to write out the complete episode theories has been trying to keep the character behavior consistant throughout every episode. Episode 5 has not been fun so far.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:23   Link #6794
chronotrig
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Um Sure maybe they did for awhile, but regardless of whether you or the author say it's solvable or not Virgilia already said the game was solvable in red in the game. That's all any of use needed I think. The way you did it just after proposing a theory which to me seemed arrogant. It wasn't necessary at all.



That was unnecessary wasn't it? Well either way I don't see it the same way you do.
When meta-Ange "died", all of her memories poured into Battler. Battler learned about all the suffering she went through, which is what finally brought him around and lead to the massive tea party.

You call it arrogant, but my only options are tell you or not tell you. If I tell you, then many people who don't want to be spoiled will get spoiled. I know the internet. That's how things work. That's why so many push us to translate quickly, is it not?

@Kaisos Erranon:
That method is going to make things hard. To truly solve the game, you need to figure out why all of this happens. That's the only way that you can find the true answer to the closed rooms instead of just an answer.

@Ssol:
Maybe you'll have better luck, but I found it easier to stick to the question arcs until I'd built up a strong base theory. There is one nasty trick in EP5 that'll screw a lot of people up (not sure if this is the one Ryuukishi meant, since this one sort of happens in EP6 as well).
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:31   Link #6795
Judoh
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
When meta-Ange "died", all of her memories poured into Battler. Battler learned about all the suffering she went through, which is what finally brought him around and lead to the massive tea party.
Really? I thought he was just sympathizing with his half sister who wanted her Onii chan to come home. Your telling me that memories have been transferred pre-episode 5? Do your actually beleive this? I'll reread the scene since I guess there is some kind of weird implication in there, but I don't see where your getting this from at all. It sounds kind of contrived.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:35   Link #6796
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Really? I thought he was just sympathizing with his half sister who wanted her Onii chan to come home. Your telling me that memories have been transferred pre-episode 5? Do your actually beleive this? I'll reread the scene since I guess there is some kind of weird implication in there, but I don't see where your getting this from at all. It sounds kind of contrived.
Quote:
From Ange's arms that held him, the very painful, sad, and lonely days that his little sister, who had been left all alone, had gone through...flowed into Battler...
Quote:
Because he had been playing around in a place like this, his little sister had had been left all alone, and had been forced to endure............such pain!!
Here you go.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:35   Link #6797
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
You call it arrogant, but my only options are tell you or not tell you. If I tell you, then many people who don't want to be spoiled will get spoiled. I know the internet. That's how things work. That's why so many push us to translate quickly, is it not?
Again, you talk like you already know the answers for certain, and that revealing your theory would be equivalent to spoiling Ep8 for everyone. This is what we mean by 'arrogant'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
That method is going to make things hard. To truly solve the game, you need to figure out why all of this happens. That's the only way that you can find the true answer to the closed rooms instead of just an answer.
Wheh. How would figuring out the 'why' of things instantly help me to figure out the 'how' of things? I highly doubt the truth of the games is intimately connected to how the closed rooms are formed. They're just closed room tricks, the sort Battler said you could find if you bought a bunch of mystery books with that theme and flipped through them all.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:39   Link #6798
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Again, you talk like you already know the answers for certain, and that revealing your theory would be equivalent to spoiling Ep8 for everyone. This is what we mean by 'arrogant'.
I'm not going that far, but it'll at least spoil part of EP7. And for all I know, it might spoil EP8.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:39   Link #6799
Judoh
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Here you go.
I'll read the visual novel myself thank you. I beleive I can find a different context that way.
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Old 2010-03-23, 21:47   Link #6800
Kaisos Erranon
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I'm not going that far, but it'll at least spoil part of EP7. And for all I know, it might spoil EP8.
I... I... argh! You're missing what I was getting at entirely.

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orz
Umineko is a mystery. What's wrong with trying to solve it like a mystery? Isn't that the point of the Knox rules to begin with?
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