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Old 2010-04-18, 15:03   Link #8341
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenlove27 View Post
I believe in the latter but not different people. I know that the Beatrice of 19 years ago is dead but My claim is that She and Kinzo had a child and was looked after by the servants, aside from Gohda, on the down low. Also since every time Maria goes to the island and "plays" with her She knows of the culprit and solely believes that she is Beatrice.
Person X doesn't exist therefore this child would have to be one of the cousins or the servants.

Which isn't all that out there. People have thought about that for Kanon and Shannon already. And Jessica's birth is kind of suspect.
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:06   Link #8342
Kylon99
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Yes, Beatrice speaking to Battler was in EP4, when she told him to come out for the test. She even said stuff like, "This is the first time we've spoken on the gameboard" etc... meta-world knowledge.

It's easy to disguise yourself from far away like when Battler 'saw' Beatrice on the balcony. But... over the phone? I mean.. unless Battler totally sucks at identifying voices... I know I can identify voices pretty easily even when they're acting. (Like Japanese voice actresses. *cough*.) Well.. Battler is useless after all... 8)
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:14   Link #8343
kingsky123
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i think.. for the ending of the story would be something like the presence of ange on the island would stop the killer from killing everyone
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:22   Link #8344
goldenlove27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Person X doesn't exist therefore this child would have to be one of the cousins or the servants.

Which isn't all that out there. People have thought about that for Kanon and Shannon already. And Jessica's birth is kind of suspect.
She wouldn't fall under Person X if she was mentioned in the 1st game. Also the 18 person who keeps reappearing EP 2, 4, and 5 could be her real Identity. What your saying is contradicting Battlers role as the detective. Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues. Knox's 1st. It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story. And don't forget Knox's 8th, it is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not present. Until now, he has been the detective! Was it ever shown that he was not the detective during the 4 games, and that he was an observer with a subjective viewpoint? Unless it was, you do not have the right to falsify his point of view... I took some for Dlanor's words and molded them to my liking. Sorry if it sounds harsh. Oh and thank you Kylon99 for the info.
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:26   Link #8345
Judoh
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Originally Posted by goldenlove27 View Post
She wouldn't fall under Person X if she was mentioned in the 1st game. Also the 18 person who keeps reappearing EP 2, 4, and 5 could be her real Identity. What your saying is contradicting Battlers role as the detective. Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any clues. Knox's 1st. It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story. And don't forget Knox's 8th, it is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not present. Until now, he has been the detective! Was it ever shown that he was not the detective during this time, and that he was an observer with a subjective viewpoint? Unless it was, you do not have the right to falsify his point of view... I took so for Dlanor's wards an molded them to my liking. Sorry if it sounds harsh
Person X is defined as an extra person. If it's not one of the 17 people we were introduced to your child (which is probably the person from 19 years ago) would probably be a person X. So unless it's one of the 17 people, the count changes, or your child is an off island mastermind then it doesn't work.

That contradicts Knox's first for sure because your child is not really Beatrice since Beatrice is dead she's an unknown child born from Beatrice who just so happens to beleive she's Beatrice. So to not affect the person count it would have to be one of the 17 people.

and no your reds aren't harsh because they don't contradict anything I said.

Edit: oh I got the number wrong the red says 17 sorry about that.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-04-18 at 15:41.
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:42   Link #8346
goldenlove27
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We I wasn't trying to contradict you. I just wanted to see if you acknowledge my theory. It's fun for me to have to discuss something as fun as solving the game with everyone so forgive me if I didn't make my intentions clear. I see you think that she is an extra player... by that wouldn't Erika be eliminated off the game for being so. With Kinzo dead, she became the 18 person with in fact the body count would be 19 due to her appearance. My ground is that since Erika killed 5 people as an extra piece I suspect that she would be the real killer, (not her personally but the person who she represents in other words the uninvited 18th guess). With the body count changing I think that 1) there's a way around the red or 2) the Real number or phrasing of the number of people has yet to be released. There can't be 17 people on the island if 18 bodies lay on it and with Erika in the game it goes to 19.
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:47   Link #8347
Judoh
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Except Furudo Erika had no influence on any of Beato's games before now. So she's not that person and according to them she's not unusual.

It's more like the author is saying they can add in a self insert character or a mary sue character or get rid of other characters anytime they want to suit their story.
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:52   Link #8348
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Except Furudo Erika had no influence on any of Beato's games before now.

So it's more like the author is saying they can add in a self insert character or a mary sue character or get rid of other characters anytime they want to suit their story.
True I took that into consideration as well but it doesn't change the fact that a person killed 5 people while everyone is being confined unless you think Kanon did it. If so I have various of theories on him being the culprit as well...

I forgot to say that it doesn't have to be Erika but the person she is playing as that could be the guest.
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Old 2010-04-18, 15:56   Link #8349
Renall
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
BTW there is another interesting thing in this part. Apparently Eva was in a tight spot financially.

It looks like she was unable to collect the gold, or perhaps the gold or the access to it was sealed due to the accident.
Well, 1998 may not be the continuation of ep3. We've been led to think it is, but we have no proof of it. Perhaps the Eva who survived to Ange's 1998 never found the gold at all.
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
but if you mix LIG and ライト the only possible logical solution is that it's "light"... else it should have been WRI.

Certaintly they have made some mistakes in the past, like "BUT" for Battler, "ENJ" for Ange and "WAL" for Virgilia. However they are all explainable with japanese pronunciation issues.

A "Wright" becoming "RAI" makes sense, but a "Wright" becoming "LIG" doesn't, unless Ryukishi told em to prepare the code for this new "Raito" character and they thought it was "light", but can there be such a bad communication among the staff?
I think it's possible given the BUT/ENJ/WAR/KIR/KLA issues. If nothing else, "Wright" as a character makes slightly more probable sense than some random person named "Light." He (she?) was mentioned in the text, if nothing else.

However, it seems to have been cut relatively early, if it has no art. Remember, ryukishi is pretty wasteful when it comes to just leaving unused assets in. If he created a character, I think their art would've been put in-game even if they were cut at the last second... unless it was his intent to yank the character for ep7 and he wanted to avoid spoilers.

EDIT: Here's the list of "misnamed" character portrait files.

BUT = Battler. You can sort of read his name this way.
ENJ = Ange. "Enjye" is a valid reading of her name and it's really only by asking 07th that we know Ange is the intended romanization.
GAP = Gaap. This is probably just an abbreviation, of course.
KIR = Kyrie. Probably similar issue to Ange.
KLA = Krauss. Klauss is a valid way to read the name though.
WAL = Virgilia. It's read "Warugiria" or somesuch so this is understandable, but Virgilia was clearly intended since she's taking the role of Virgil from the Divine Comedy.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:04   Link #8350
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
This could mean that Wright was going to join Dlanor at some point in EP6, but that didn't happen. Maybe he (or she?) will turn up in EP7.
Umineko is practically structured as a "Take That" to Van Dine's rules. I think he'd have a conniption if he was forced to be a part of the game, heh.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:10   Link #8351
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Umineko is practically structured as a "Take That" to Van Dine's rules. I think he'd have a conniption if he was forced to be a part of the game, heh.
You have to admit Bern would love him, though.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:17   Link #8352
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
You have to admit Bern would love him, though.
...Which is why I can see her summoning him in Ep7 and trying to restructure the game to fit his rules.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:22   Link #8353
Judoh
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Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
You have to admit Bern would love him, though.
Bern hates love stories in mysteries?

Bye bye trap Kanon theory we'll miss you.~
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:25   Link #8354
Tjfarmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
...Which is why I can see her summoning him in Ep7 and trying to restructure the game to fit his rules.
Ya, right! A male Dine in Umineko? It's gonna be a girl!
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:26   Link #8355
goldenlove27
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Bern hates love stories in mysteries?

Bye bye trap Kanon theory we'll miss you.~
Damn yo beat me to it! Don't forget accidents or suicides.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:27   Link #8356
Judoh
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Damn yo beat me to it! Don't forget accidents or suicides.
wrong kind of trap buddy.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:31   Link #8357
goldenlove27
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wrong kind of trap buddy.
Ho ho, you had me mistaken my friend. I meant no such thing.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:33   Link #8358
SeagullCrazy
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I lol'd at these two Van Dine rules:

Quote:
11. A servant must not be chosen by the author as the culprit. This is begging a noble question. It is a too easy solution. The culprit must be a decidedly worth-while person one that wouldn't ordinarily come under suspicion.
Quote:
20. And (to give my Credo an even score of items) I herewith list a few of the devices which no self-respecting detective story writer will now avail himself of. They have been employed too often, and are familiar to all true lovers of literary crime. To use them is a confession of the author's ineptitude and lack of originality. (a) Determining the identity of the culprit by comparing the butt of a cigarette left at the scene of the crime with the brand smoked by a suspect.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:38   Link #8359
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Well, 1998 may not be the continuation of ep3. We've been led to think it is, but we have no proof of it. Perhaps the Eva who survived to Ange's 1998 never found the gold at all.I think it's possible given the BUT/ENJ/WAR/KIR/KLA issues. If nothing else, "Wright" as a character makes slightly more probable sense than some random person named "Light." He (she?) was mentioned in the text, if nothing else.
The problem I have with this is that I think there are enough Phoenix Wright references without actually having a Wright character in the story.

Then the fact that no "light" was ever mentioned before isn't a good point. Featherinne, Zepar and Furfur are no different.
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Old 2010-04-18, 16:42   Link #8360
Raiza Sunozaki
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Ryuukishi seems to know of Dine's Rules, but also seems to disagree with them. If he did his research before writing, he'd probably already know of Dine's Rules before writing Episode 3, and in that sense, Battler's solution seems to be an outright defiance of Dine's opinion on good mysteries.
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