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Old 2010-04-22, 22:21   Link #8681
chronotrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theacefrehley View Post
Really,
This interview added nothing... much less confirming any theory...
I even read Zeparu and Furufuru lines again...

So much fuss for...whatever
Just fyi, these are only a few lines from the interview that were posted on 2ch. We don't know what else he said. Still, presumably they would choose to post the most interesting parts.

I think the clearest thing this interview shows us is that "EP6 is practically an answer". That's the thing that makes Shkanontrice very hard to get around. Whatever the real answer is, at least part of it must have been clearly shown in EP6 or Ryuukishi is outright lying. He might exaggerate and mislead, but he doesn't lie outright in interviews.
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Old 2010-04-22, 22:45   Link #8682
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Just fyi, these are only a few lines from the interview that were posted on 2ch. We don't know what else he said. Still, presumably they would choose to post the most interesting parts.

I think the clearest thing this interview shows us is that "EP6 is practically an answer". That's the thing that makes Shkanontrice very hard to get around. Whatever the real answer is, at least part of it must have been clearly shown in EP6 or Ryuukishi is outright lying. He might exaggerate and mislead, but he doesn't lie outright in interviews.
He also said that these are core arcs not answer arcs. So there must be important hints in episode 6, but maybe it's only pieces of an answer. And he was kind of round about on the Battler rescue thing.

Also this is 2 chan it's not exactly a completely reliable source.

We should probably just use this extra time in waiting for that translation to reread the story. Now that I have Romance novel rules in mind I have a completely different mind set on what Beato meant when she said "it was a war between mystery and fantasy" and the ironic thing is the topic was love just before it was mystery in that conversation in episode 5. So there may be some melting between the two genres.

It seems more like a war between rules. It's like they're arguing over what they want the story to be like as they take notes. It's actually kind of cute.
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Old 2010-04-22, 22:55   Link #8683
blitz1/2
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Even though Ryukishi promised that the ending would be "bitter-sweet". I can't help but think that we're going to have a sappy BeaBattler ending. I just hope all that romance is placed in ep 6 and not as focused on in the future EPs.
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Old 2010-04-22, 22:57   Link #8684
Judoh
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Actually I think that is the definition of bitter sweet. It's not exactly a bad ending and it's not exactly happy either. It's half and half.

Something like Battler murdering the culprit in the final episode and saving everyone or a final battle between the pieces of Battler and Beatrice would probably still be a bitter sweet end.

EDIT: I guess that's why all the Jessica theorists on 4 chan want a fist fight end between Between Battler and Jessica
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Old 2010-04-22, 22:58   Link #8685
Renall
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In ep1, Battler and Kyrie discuss romances and mysteries and Battler concludes a romance is harder to figure out than a mystery story. So I guess there you have it!

EDIT: Also, once again, ep6 in no way necessitates Shkanon, and Shkanon does not imply, necessitate, or constitute any essential part of Shannontrice.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:01   Link #8686
SeagullCrazy
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Something interesting this discussion made me think of:

Red = mystery
Blue = fantasy
Gold = romance

Could it be that the colored texts only apply to certain genres?
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:03   Link #8687
Judoh
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I think the blue would be more of a sci fi genre, but I guess that is technically "fantasy".
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:06   Link #8688
SeagullCrazy
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Well, I was just thinking that if the genre is undecided, why are the Knox rules allowed to be said in red? If red = mystery then that makes sense.

Of course, anything can be said in blue text, so it's like fantasy.

I'm not really sure how to relate gold text to romance, but you can see how I would get that, right?
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:07   Link #8689
Judoh
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Well the gold had to get rid of Kinzo he's the enemy of all Romance novels. He's the crusty old grandpa who hates everyone and gets in your way.

EDIT:In fact Kinzo ASKED Battler to get past that obstacle.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:08   Link #8690
Kylon99
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Well, maybe it's not romance, but romantic, as in romanticism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism

Of which romance falls under.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:12   Link #8691
chronotrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
In ep1, Battler and Kyrie discuss romances and mysteries and Battler concludes a romance is harder to figure out than a mystery story. So I guess there you have it!

EDIT: Also, once again, ep6 in no way necessitates Shkanon, and Shkanon does not imply, necessitate, or constitute any essential part of Shannontrice.
It doesn't, but it does strongly hint towards not only the Shannon=Kanon part of Shkanon, but the rules about pieces that would make Shkanon possible. It does this throughout the entire game and it is the most clear answer that game shows. It is very hard (if it's even possible) to think of anything else that's "a clue that borders on an answer" in this game, though that doesn't mean it isn't there.

It does mean that any non-Shkanon theory will eventually have to justify EP6, though not necessarily in an obvious way.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:17   Link #8692
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
Well, maybe it's not romance, but romantic, as in romanticism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanticism

Of which romance falls under.
Surprisingly this describes Umineko very well... I even see a bit of Kinzo in there.
Quote:
The modern sense of a romantic character may be expressed in Byronic ideals of a gifted, perhaps misunderstood loner, creatively following the dictates of his inspiration rather than the mores of contemporary society.
Quote:
In literature, Romanticism found recurrent themes in the evocation or criticism of the past, the cult of "sensibility" with its emphasis on women and children, the heroic isolation of the artist or narrator, and respect for a new, wilder, untrammeled and "pure" nature. Furthermore, several romantic authors, such as Edgar Allan Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne, based their writings on the supernatural/occult and human psychology.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:18   Link #8693
SeagullCrazy
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The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing that Ryukishi just likes to color-code everything.

I mean, consider all of these:
  • Red, blue, and gold text
  • Battler, George, and Jessica's hair colors
  • Siesta45, 410, and 00's hair colors
  • Lambda, Bern, and Beato
  • Virgilia (light blue hair) and Evatrice (brown-red hair)
  • Zepar (light blue hair) Furfur (brown-red hair)
  • Erika (blue hair)
  • Black, blue, red, gold, purple, orange eye colors
  • Dlanor, Gertrude, and Cornelia wear blue uniforms
  • Golden butterflies, red and blue swords and barriers
The list goes on, but already that's a lot of color-coding!
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:24   Link #8694
Judoh
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Now I'm imagining Kinzo dying the same way Edgar Allan Poe did. Mysteriously and in a way where there is lots of speculation by his peers on who or what caused it. Some say it was drunken stupor some say it was something else. But both have one thing in common they both had doctors and they were sure it was him that died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Edgar_Allan_Poe
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:30   Link #8695
theacefrehley
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forget it...
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:30   Link #8696
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Now I'm imagining Kinzo dying the same way Edgar Allan Poe did. Mysteriously and in a way where there is lots of speculation by his peers on who or what caused it. Some say it was drunken stupor some say it was something else. But both have one thing in common they both had doctors and they were sure it was him that died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Edgar_Allan_Poe
Wow, the similarities really are amazing. I seriously wonder how far Ryukishi planned this out in advance considering the huge amount of themes Umineko has at this point. References to The Divine Comedy, King Solomon, and Edgar Allen Poe in the same story? Who would have thought?

Or is this all one huge coincidence?
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:32   Link #8697
Renall
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
It doesn't, but it does strongly hint towards not only the Shannon=Kanon part of Shkanon, but the rules about pieces that would make Shkanon possible. It does this throughout the entire game and it is the most clear answer that game shows. It is very hard (if it's even possible) to think of anything else that's "a clue that borders on an answer" in this game, though that doesn't mean it isn't there.

It does mean that any non-Shkanon theory will eventually have to justify EP6, though not necessarily in an obvious way.
I think there are several theories that can justify ep6 without skirting it too much, but Shkanon is indeed the one most obviously portrayed on its surface. Which is why I remain so incredibly skeptical of it (besides the fact that it's lame).

Shkanon also has the small problem that it also winds up being anti-romance, so uh, how come we're not roasting it for that?
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:35   Link #8698
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I think there are several theories that can justify ep6 without skirting it too much, but Shkanon is indeed the one most obviously portrayed on its surface. Which is why I remain so incredibly skeptical of it (besides the fact that it's lame).

Shkanon also has the small problem that it also winds up being anti-romance, so uh, how come we're not roasting it for that?
Why is it anti-romance? Since when has a love triangle been anti-romance?

Also, Ryuukishi said "a hint that borders on an answer", meaning it can't just be something obscure that happens to solve EP6. It has to be a hint that was shown to us clearly in order to match Ryuukishi's words.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:37   Link #8699
Judoh
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Why is it anti-romance? Since when has a love triangle been anti-romance?

Also, Ryuukishi said "a hint that borders on an answer", meaning it can't just be something obscure that happens to solve EP6. It has to be a hint that was shown to us clearly in order to match Ryuukishi's words.
Well if George is Kanon at least we have a romantic reason for Shannon and Kanon to share the same bed.

That's one thing I've found interesting about the spoilers for episode 6. Supposedly Kanon and Shannon share the same bed and if one finds love the other can't. weird contradiction there.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:38   Link #8700
Kylon99
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Ohhhhh...

As I suspected... there are actually four colors. There are four Siestas, the last one's hair color is black. So we already know this. But...

Featherine's hair color is also black.

We also have black text. Except that it's white. 8)

On the gameboard, Erika's hair is blue. And George is black... Maybe he'll become the next witch? 8)


By the way, besides Dlanor's group being blue, you might notice they have keys on their hoods. If they like the stakes have physic representations then my first guess would be the 3 most important keys on the island. The church key and the two study keys...

EDIT: Zepar is actually Blue and Black. And Furfur is Gold and Red...
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