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Old 2010-04-22, 23:42   Link #8701
Renall
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Why is it anti-romance? Since when has a love triangle been anti-romance?
Because per Shkanon, one of these people doesn't exist. And don't start with the "well the personality feels for Jessica" crap, personalities ain't got the equipment. And if you don't think erotic romance matters, I direct you to all the stuff Beatrice has said.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:48   Link #8702
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
By the way, besides Dlanor's group being blue, you might notice they have keys on their hoods. If they like the stakes have physic representations then my first guess would be the 3 most important keys on the island. The church key and the two study keys...
If I had to guess, I'd say the tall one (Cornelia?) represents the chapel key, while the two shorter ones represent study keys.

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Originally Posted by Kylon99
EDIT: Zepar is actually Blue and Black. And Furfur is Gold and Red...
Interesting observation. So all four colors are together?

Also, if we're going to include black, then the goats, Ronove, and Virgilia have that color. And that reminds me of the stake's red shirts...the color coding never ends!
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:51   Link #8703
Judoh
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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
Also, if we're going to include black, then the goats, Ronove, and Virgilia have that color. And that reminds me of the stake's red shirts...the color coding never ends!
It's weird, but the stakes always have red shirts and blue swords and in episode 5 they are described as having blue truth powers. Dlanor and pals have Blue clothes and red swords.

Then there is Kanon who always uses a red sword against the witch's furniture unless he's zombie Kanon.

So obviously there is a mixing element here

Quote:
By the way, besides Dlanor's group being blue, you might notice they have keys on their hoods. If they like the stakes have physic representations then my first guess would be the 3 most important keys on the island. The church key and the two study keys...
I was actually wondering if the key cross could refer Dlanor's "god" somehow. Is there a god whose symbol is a key?
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:52   Link #8704
LyricalAura
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Well if George is Kanon at least we have a romantic reason for Shannon and Kanon to share the same bed.

That's one thing I've found interesting about the spoilers for episode 6. Supposedly Kanon and Shannon share the same bed and if one finds love the other can't. weird contradiction there.
I keep asking people to give me an actual quote for that piece of information, and no one can provide it. I'm pretty sure that's because it doesn't exist, because I certainly don't remember reading it and it's not in my notes.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:53   Link #8705
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There are actually four sword colors. The gold, the red, the blue, and purple. I forget who uses the purple besides Zombie Kanon, but the goats might.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:56   Link #8706
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Because per Shkanon, one of these people doesn't exist. And don't start with the "well the personality feels for Jessica" crap, personalities ain't got the equipment. And if you don't think erotic romance matters, I direct you to all the stuff Beatrice has said.
So, all love must be erotic now? Not seeing the romance in that

It seems almost certain that Sayo cares for Jessica very much as Shannon, and may even feel more attached to her than anyone else in the world. She does love Jessica, and wants her to be happy. Kanon, on the other hand, rejects Jessica's advances outright, and Sayo sees how much this hurts Jessica.

It may even be that Sayo started developing feelings of her own after Jessica tried so hard. These don't need to be romantic, but they can be very serious. After all, there's that deep connection they share about having an extra personality to blow off steam, and being trapped on the island for so much of the time.

Sayo is in a very confusing situation, and has to try and deal with it all by herself.
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:57   Link #8707
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
It's weird, but the stakes always have red shirts and blue swords. Dlanor and pals have Blue clothes and red swords.

Then there is Kanon who always uses a red sword unless he's zombie Kanon.

So obviously there is a mixing element here
Also, there are purple swords and barriers. Maybe it's like a combination of red and blue.
lol beaten to it

Actually, now there are colors for each eye color, right? So can we start figuring out what the eye colors mean?
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Old 2010-04-22, 23:57   Link #8708
Kylon99
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Well, I thought Dlanor represents the chapel key, since there is only one of them. Gertrude (the tall one that nosebleeds at moe-Dlanor) and Cornelia represent the study keys since there are two...

What does Guardrail represent? She's too great to be tied to earthly representations, I guess.

I would imagine the meta characters were not coincidences... it's hard to say about the gameboard characters since Maria's hair is orange. Although you'll notice no one on Rokkenjima actually has truly black hair. Kanon is grey. Gouda is dark green. Rudolf is actually brownish. Hideyoshi comes the closest with dark brown hair.. but none compare to George's full on black. And also George has a black shirt, like Battler's red shirt. He has a yellow suit though.. but it's not really gold.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:00   Link #8709
Renall
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
So, all love must be erotic now? Not seeing the romance in that
Rejecting eroticism is a very childish understanding of romance. There's nothing wrong with romance being erotic, and in fact, your average romance story tends to be at least somewhat erotic. Not all romance must be erotic, but the text supports such a reading. For someone who is so gung-ho about asserting textual support, no matter how thin, when it suits you, I see no reason you can object to my claim that erotic love is thematic for Umineko.
Quote:
It seems almost certain that Sayo cares for Jessica very much as Shannon, and may even feel more attached to her than anyone else in the world. She does love Jessica, and wants her to be happy. Kanon, on the other hand, rejects Jessica's advances outright, and Sayo sees how much this hurts Jessica.

It may even be that Sayo started developing feelings of her own after Jessica tried so hard. These don't need to be romantic, but they can be very serious. After all, there's that deep connection they share about having an extra personality to blow off steam, and being trapped on the island for so much of the time.

Sayo is in a very confusing situation, and has to try and deal with it all by herself.
Not one word of this is anything but your opinion.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:00   Link #8710
Judoh
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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
Actually, now there are colors for each eye color, right? So can we start figuring out what the eye colors mean?
The eye colors are actually repeats probably. Rika had purple eyes in Higurashi, but Erika has blue eyes. Who has purple eyes in Umineko again?

Oh and Battler has black eyes does that mean anything?

George and Shannon also use purple barriers I think, but I thought Goat Kanon used a blue sword. Oh well.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:01   Link #8711
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
The eye colors are actually repeats. Rika had purple eyes in Higurashi, but Erika has blue eyes. Who has purple eyes in Umineko again?
Bern and Featherine.

I was kind of thinking black = normal considering almost every human character has black eyes.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:04   Link #8712
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Originally Posted by SeagullCrazy View Post
Bern and Featherine.
It might be something about being a "voyager" type witch then. They give a clear definition in Umineko for that. And it describes Rika's situation perfectly.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:07   Link #8713
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
It might be something about being a "voyager" type witch then. They give a clear definition in Umineko for that. And it describes Rika's situation perfectly.
But how would that apply to a sword or barrier?
I was hoping the color meanings would stay consistent, but that might not be the case.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:08   Link #8714
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Oh yah, about Edgar Allen Poe. He's the author of Murders in the Rue Morgue, claimed as one of the first detective mysteries and probably one of the first closed room murders. As such, it's pretty cheap; apparently an orangutan escaped, killed the person in the room and hid in the chimney.

Ryukishi is certain to have studied this as I think it was Lambdadelta that teases someone about an orangutan doing something...
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:08   Link #8715
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
It may even be that Sayo started developing feelings of her own after Jessica tried so hard. These don't need to be romantic, but they can be very serious. After all, there's that deep connection they share about having an extra personality to blow off steam, and being trapped on the island for so much of the time.
Shannon has saved up millions. She can leave anytime she wants. She's definitely not a "caged bird". Jessica however HATES the island.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:10   Link #8716
Kylon99
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Everyone on the gameboard had black eyes. (Although technically speaking us asians have dark-brown eyes.) Erika has bright blue glowing eyes. Maybe she uses too much spice.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:10   Link #8717
chronotrig
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Then you have a very childish understanding of romance. There's nothing wrong with romance being erotic, and in fact, your average romance story tends to be at least somewhat erotic. Not all romance must be erotic, but the text supports such a reading. For someone who is so gung-ho about asserting textual support, no matter how thin, when it suits you, I see no reason you can object to my claim that erotic love is thematic for Umineko.
Did I say there was anything wrong with it? However, you act as though there has never been a romance that doesn't end in sex. That is simply not true, both in the real world and the literary world.

Also, you've totally misinterpreted my method of reasoning, besides making a pretty unfounded point. Something erotic is mentioned at one or two points in the game, so all romance in said game must be erotic? It's fine for you to think that, but it's not something you can just state as fact.

Look back at when I first posted my theory. I said several times that I don't know whether it is the final answer, and even said that I thought it pretty likely that there was a further answer behind my theory. I have never said "you cannot object to my claim because I have shown evidence", but that a claim with this much evidence pointing towards it is much more likely than a similar claim with less evidence for it.

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Not one word of this is anything but your opinion.
Yes, but you said Shkanon wasn't romantic no matter what. I have provided part of a possible counterexample.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:14   Link #8718
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
Oh yah, about Edgar Allen Poe. He's the author of Murders in the Rue Morgue, claimed as one of the first detective mysteries and probably one of the first closed room murders. As such, it's pretty cheap; apparently an orangutan escaped, killed the person in the room and hid in the chimney.

Ryukishi is certain to have studied this as I think it was Lambdadelta that teases someone about an orangutan doing something...
There is a mention of a trained monkey killing Nanjo that was trumped by Evatrice too! These references are starting to get fun!
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:17   Link #8719
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That wasn't my point. I believe you're aware of that. You've also ignored my point. Again.

Your "counterexample" is roughly as supportable as a Kyrietrice theory; not denied, but highly questionable. Jessica's interest in Kanon is not innocent and pure romantic affection. Nor is she just lonely. She is attracted to him. He flusters her. It's a sexual attraction. That's perfectly understandable given her age.
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Old 2010-04-23, 00:17   Link #8720
SeagullCrazy
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
These references are starting to get fun!
This one isn't as obvious, or even a reference really. It's more related to colors. It's based on hair color.
Evatrice = Bronze
Virgilia = Silver
Beatrice = Gold
I would guess if there were an olympic event for witches, these 3 would get the medals!

EDIT: Ah, that's right! Evatrice wears a purple dress! What does that mean?
EDIT 2: Maybe I'm getting too obsessed with colors and hidden meanings, lol
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