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Old 2010-05-20, 13:33   Link #10261
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
Unless all of the adults do it together the only people who could do the second one are Rosa and Nanjo.
I'd need to recheck the timing of their death being declared in red, but Shannon could also do several of the murders. They leave her for dead, go along the chain of keys, she follows, kills everyone, and later when she returns to the parlor, gets killed by someone else. That someone else would only need to lag behind the rest of the adults for a short time when they were leaving for the guesthouse.
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Old 2010-05-20, 13:35   Link #10262
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
I'd need to recheck the timing of their death being declared in red, but Shannon could also do several of the murders. They leave her for dead, go along the chain of keys, she follows, kills everyone, and later when she returns to the parlor, gets killed by someone else. That someone else would only need to lag behind the rest of the adults for a short time when they were leaving for the guesthouse.
The problem with that is, we were never given any hint one of the adults stayed behind anywhere. For what we were told it seemed they traveled in a group, expect Rosa who went to check on the kids.
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Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.
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Old 2010-05-20, 13:39   Link #10263
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
I'd need to recheck the timing of their death being declared in red, but Shannon could also do several of the murders. They leave her for dead, go along the chain of keys, she follows, kills everyone, and later when she returns to the parlor, gets killed by someone else. That someone else would only need to lag behind the rest of the adults for a short time when they were leaving for the guesthouse.
They were declared dead during the reconstruction of the closed rooms when Battler is holed up with everyone. So the death declaration can be up to that moment.

Rudolf is the first person to enter parlor since he broke the window if that means anything.
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Old 2010-05-20, 13:42   Link #10264
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
They were declared dead during the reconstruction of the closed rooms when Battler is holed up with everyone. So the death declaration can be up to that moment.

Rudolf is the first person to enter parlor since he broke the window if that means anything.
Again... So Rudolf has a decent chance to kill both Rosa and Shannon... if it wasn't for the fact that his stake is in his head, I would consider him maybe killing Nanjo.
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Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.
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Old 2010-05-20, 13:46   Link #10265
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
The problem with that is, we were never given any hint one of the adults stayed behind anywhere. For what we were told it seemed they traveled in a group, expect Rosa who went to check on the kids.

And if the remember right the red is right after they find everyone, and before the scene in the guesthouse.
The red is positioned between when they leave (07:00) and when they return (09:00). It's hard to tell when exactly it happens but considering that the actual scenes of following down the chain are never shown, and are instead related in Virgilia's narration, there can be up to an hour gap between being found 'dead' and being killed. Virgilia's narration is not in red and actually very vague, careful to neither state nor deny anyone travelled as a group. Notice that at some point along the way they have to go wherever Kinzo kept his guns, which are clearly not in any of the rooms on the chain.
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Old 2010-05-20, 13:52   Link #10266
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
The red is positioned between when they leave (07:00) and when they return (09:00). It's hard to tell when exactly it happens but considering that the actual scenes of following down the chain are never shown, and are instead related in Virgilia's narration, there can be up to an hour gap between being found 'dead' and being killed. Virgilia's narration is not in red and actually very vague, careful to neither state nor deny anyone travelled as a group. Notice that at some point along the way they have to go wherever Kinzo kept his guns, which are clearly not in any of the rooms on the chain.
I noticed that Virgilia is so vauge. It is possible that they didn't even find 6 bodies. One of the rooms they might not have even be able to get into. Say... the Chapel, if the killer is inside say Kanon, and he gets out because of of what Oliver proposed. The adults may have just thought he was dead because of what they already saw and the magic circle. Kanon leaves and starts walking around with the fake bloodstain on his chest. One of the adults sees him a shots him thinking he might have killed the others.
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Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.
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Old 2010-05-20, 13:58   Link #10267
Linkin Battler
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Hi everyone. I personally have a theory that could possibly resolve the whole Umineko game and I came here to let you read it and have your opinions. It may be completely wrong or contain something true and I'd like to have your help to find some mistake or correct it if I said something wrong. I hope you all will read it and share your opinions with me ^^ Before posting here I have to say two things: (1) I haven’t read Episode 6 and I created this theory by just reading episodes from 1 to 5, so I don’t know whether it conflicts with Episode 6 or not xD However, it contains very little and few spoilers for Episode 6, who a friend of mine told me about, but I don't know whether I have to put the Wall of Text in spoiler or not, so I alert you before xD (2) the part about the exchange of Shannon with Beatrice is not mine, I read it somewhere xD All the rest is thought up by myself! xD Here it is:

Spoiler for Wall of Text @_@:

Last edited by Linkin Battler; 2010-05-20 at 21:46.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:09   Link #10268
DgBarca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
It is the all else. Anyone who was in the dinning room could be Erika, or one of those who went to the mansion with her at the same time. Because if Erika is just another name of the one of those people as long as she stays with that person. As long as there isn't a red which says Erika is not the the same room as them, Erika could be that person. Example. Erika could be Jessica. X Erika was in the lounge, Jessica was upstairs. That is not a real red, so discard it.
Well, all the things with Erika got me into :

"One of the 17 is claiming Erika's name"

To be sure that this isn't useless, I will make this Blue into

I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!
Erika got into Rokkenjima, even if she was dead.
If Erika is already dead, there is no way that she could have put seal on the windows and doors. However, it has been said in red :
"As the detective, <Miss> Erika sealed all ENTRANCES." and
"Lady Erika's lookout in the lounge was perfect.
Therefore, one LIVING PERSON is claiming to be Erika, and red never said that The only person who can claim Erika's name is the person which corpse drifted by accident on Rokkenjima. So it was possible for everybody to claim Erika's name. And if "Erika" never existed and the seals too (except Eva's) These truth couldn't exist, because red said that "Erika" sealed the entrance, and those seal where perfect. So : IF ERIKA IS ALREADY DEAD, SOMEONE THAT IS ALSO CALLED ERIKA MUST BE THE ONE WHO MADE THOSE SEALS, AS THE EXISTENCE OF THOSE IS PROVED WITH THE RED.

To go further
From EP6 :
[Definition check. That "three people" refers to the number of bodies, correct? That means three bodies went in and out, right?]
Of course. Three people, that is, three bodies, went in and out of the room. Only you and Kanon entered, and only Battler left. I already stated with the red truth that all names refer only to the actual people. Therefore, the names "Erika", "Battler", and "Kanon" refer only to the actual people.
You could say that "It was just the corpse, Kanon and Battler could have carried her
. But the term used here is "three people"
The problem here is that the term used it "three people" and not "three humans".

If you combine the first red in the post and "even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen.". It means that
Humans => Humans, but the details of being dead or alive is unknown and
People/person => Humans, but definitely alive
But there is Kinzo...If you look at it like that you can say that it is a proof for Shkanon (because Kinzo would count as a human), however Beatrice said

"Before now, I have proclaimed that no more than 18 humans exist on this island."
"I will lower that by one for Kinzo!!"
. So Kinzo isn't counted as a human any more.

So "X Person = 1 Corpse". So, to conclude, I GUESS I can claim with certainty that
One of the 17 is claiming to be Erika.

So now I will deal about the
"What is possible for X to claim Erika's name without disobey to the red? Like in the trial. And the theory of X = Erika will not break Knox's 8th.
(It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED!!)

But I guess I will be long and VERY difficult to do.
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Linkin Battler => I will read your theory later, but the way the wall of text is formatted don't make me want to read it, maybe adding some Blue and Red and SPACE would make it easier to read. But I doesn't mean that I can't read it, right ?

Last edited by DgBarca; 2010-05-20 at 14:25.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:32   Link #10269
Linkin Battler
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I added some space, but as it regards the colours, I don't think there is any need xD
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:32   Link #10270
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkin Battler View Post
Shannon accepted and the person who has gone to the family conference six years ago was Beatrice and not Shannon. Beatrice then felt in strong love with Battler, spending two whole days with him until the last moment, when he has promised "he would return on a white horse". She waited for a whole year (she felt a love similar to Shion's for Satoshi), but Battler didn't come, even though she was waiting for him.
The sin I'm asking you to repeat is not between Beatrice and Battler.
__________________

Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:36   Link #10271
Linkin Battler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
The sin I'm asking you to repeat is not between Beatrice and Battler.
Beatrice is only a title, not her real name...! Six years ago whe was not Beatrice, she has gained this title after becoming a witch... Imho it is clear that the sin concerns something between them
(I should have written this in the WoT, but I forgot xD)

Last edited by Linkin Battler; 2010-05-20 at 14:53.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:38   Link #10272
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DgBarca View Post
So now I will deal about the
"What is possible for X to claim Erika's name without disobey to the red? Like in the trial. And the theory of X = Erika will not break Knox's 8th.
(It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED!!)

But I guess I will be long and VERY difficult to do.
So whatever happens for someone to become Erika doesn't happen in eps 1-4 but happens in ep 5-6

And I thought it went like this.

"Nice to meet you, hello! I am Furudo Erika, a detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please welcome me!! I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!"

"We're very sorry, but even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen."
__________________

Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:46   Link #10273
DgBarca
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Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
So whatever happens for someone to become Erika doesn't happen in eps 1-4 but happens in ep 5-6

And I thought it went like this.

"Nice to meet you, hello! I am Furudo Erika, a detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please welcome me!! I am the visitor, the eighteenth human on Rokkenjima!!"

"We're very sorry, but even if we welcome you, the number of people is seventeen."
She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
However, the "why calling him/herself Erika" is dealing of the psychology of the people of Rokkenjima, and character development and foreshadowing could have been set in the previous EPs. I got this idea on the "What do you think, everyone?" Said by Krauss in EP1.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:50   Link #10274
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DgBarca View Post
She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them.
However, the "why calling him/herself Erika" is dealing of the psychology of the people of Rokkenjima, and character development and foreshadowing could have been set in the previous EPs. I got this idea on the "What do you think, everyone?" Said by Krauss in EP1.
Or what about this. In eps1-4 Erika just washes up on shore dead. But by a miracle in ep5 and 6 she lives.
__________________

Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:52   Link #10275
Linkin Battler
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@Laserworm: I have countered your statement ^^
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:54   Link #10276
DgBarca
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Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
Or what about this. In eps1-4 Erika just washes up on shore dead. But by a miracle in ep5 and 6 she lives.
"She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them."
Can't you read ?
Hum...but...with the "Kinzo doesn't exist" red truth from Dlanor, I have doubts...because, he doesn't exist, and...well...the famous golden truth...
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:55   Link #10277
Laserworm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkin Battler View Post
@Laserworm: I have countered your statement ^^
What about this then. nvm brain was being stupid at that time.

Quote:
"She does not exist in the worlds before this one, nor does she influence them."
Can't you read ?
Hum...but...with the "Kinzo doesn't exist" red truth from Dlanor, I have doubts...because, he doesn't exist, and...well...the famous golden truth...
Even though that stament was very very rude I will not comeback rude. The word exist means alive. If Erika is a corpse when she gets to the island she never existed. For something to exist it needs to be alive.
__________________

Time ran out for the people on the island. All of them are dead. When the seagulls cry none shall be left alive. Sleep forever in a rest you will never be awakened from my beloved Beatrice. Persona: Project Mirror. http://persona-project-mirror.webs.com/ Check it out if you like the Persona series.

Last edited by Laserworm; 2010-05-20 at 15:13.
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Old 2010-05-20, 14:56   Link #10278
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Linkin Battler View Post
Imho Kanon is dead at the starting of all games and Shannon has to pretend to be Kanon. Why? The very first reason is that Battler, the detective, NEVER sees them together, not even once.

Unless you use the Kanon personality was turned off trick this is impossible. Also the detective not seeing something is not a reason for them to pretend it's a reason to be suspicious that they do.

episode 2
Kanon was killed in this room

They definitely would not mistake any different person for Kanon!

Among the five people in Kyrie's group, he was the first to die.
In short, he was the 9th victim.
(it's impossible for him to be the 9th victim in episode 4 and die at the start of all games)
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Old 2010-05-20, 15:08   Link #10279
DgBarca
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Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
What about this then.


Or are you in the ghost erika camp, that Erika isn't a real person, but just another name for someone else.



Even though that stament was very very rude I will not comeback rude. The word exist means alive. If Erika is a corpse when she gets to the island she never existed. For something to exist it needs to be alive.
it was rude, I acknowledge it. But damn! Ryu07 is just messing around with us.
For me, if Kinzo corpse exist, Kinzo exist, but he is dead. I hate when people are messing aroud too much with definition of a term.
So for Ryu07 'existing' means 'alive', and I don't like that.

Also, is there any red truth that says that Kyrie's group has even been in Kuwadorian ? and that they even get into the underground secret path ? This part is suspicious to me, maybe they were killed before going into Kuwadorian ?
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Old 2010-05-20, 15:08   Link #10280
MasterAlucard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
What about this then.


Or are you in the ghost erika camp, that Erika isn't a real person, but just another name for someone else.
Well, if Kanon is already dead then they're 16, plus Erika they make 17.
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