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Old 2010-06-29, 06:31   Link #12041
Oliver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Come to think of it, lack of noise in general is a problem for a lot of the killings. Kumasawa's scream when she finds Kanon in the boiler room is heard quite some way away, but wouldn't you expect, say, Eva to scream when someone advances on her with a stake?
In addition to being afraid to open the closets because of the skeletons hiding in them, and being very reluctant to check the family register, the Ushiromiyas are also genetically deaf!

To be fair, multiple tightly closed doors create air pockets that make for very good soundproofing. Notice, for example, that the noise of Hideyoshi's shower in Ep1 is not heard until the door to the bathroom is opened, and certainly isn't heard from outside the room.

From which it follows that Kumasawa's scream is heard a long distance away because she wanted it to be heard a long distance away, but that's hardly surprising.
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Old 2010-06-29, 08:16   Link #12042
Renall
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Forget sound, I'm still amazed nobody notices other people are wet from being outside. You'd figure every time George and Shannon come back from their little meeting that somebody would notice, or that there'd be muddy footprints in the boiler room if someone dragged Kinzo in there from the courtyard.

It's a story, I know, but they always make references to things that alleviate being wet (asking if people need umbrellas, offering to prepare towels). If the killer isn't going outside, they're remarkably confident they won't get spotted or trapped.
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Old 2010-06-29, 08:30   Link #12043
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
It's a story, I know, but they always make references to things that alleviate being wet (asking if people need umbrellas, offering to prepare towels). If the killer isn't going outside, they're remarkably confident they won't get spotted or trapped.
Actually, I'm still wondering how is a towel supposed to help in that situation.

That is, it might make your face dry and help with your hair, but there's no way to dry a wet jacket with a towel and it will stay noticeably wet for at least half an hour no matter how much you try to rub the water off.
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Old 2010-06-29, 10:13   Link #12044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
In addition to being afraid to open the closets because of the skeletons hiding in them, and being very reluctant to check the family register, the Ushiromiyas are also genetically deaf!

To be fair, multiple tightly closed doors create air pockets that make for very good soundproofing. Notice, for example, that the noise of Hideyoshi's shower in Ep1 is not heard until the door to the bathroom is opened, and certainly isn't heard from outside the room.

From which it follows that Kumasawa's scream is heard a long distance away because she wanted it to be heard a long distance away, but that's hardly surprising.
It's a fair point on the soundproofing, but if someone has just stabbed your wife and is now advancing on you with a stake... you'd probably want it to be heard a long distance away again. This probably goes under the "lack of resistance in general" heading though (no signs of a struggle, no attempts to shoot at assailants).

And maybe the killer is the only person on the island sensible enough to bring an anorak .
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Old 2010-06-29, 10:24   Link #12045
Jan-Poo
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Guys I need to make an apology...

So far I've been saying that the theory of Erika breaking up with his boyfriend wasn't a fact, that that was ambiguous enough to think it might involve someone else, probably her parents.

Well... I've found out there's indeed enough evidence to make that claim.

It is indeed true that Erika for the most part was quoting someone else's speeches (which is why I was dubious), and not hers, but that persons turned out to be indeed her former boyfriend...
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Old 2010-06-29, 11:41   Link #12046
Sentou
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One mystery solved, at least. Poor Erika. But as for sound, the killer could be using a pistol or something smaller, it does not HAVE to be a shotgun. A pistol makes a more compressed sound, and the killer perhaps could have used a pillow or something as a makeshift silencer.
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Old 2010-06-29, 11:52   Link #12047
TTR
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THE PILLOW KILLER. I like the sound of that :3

In all seriousness though you could use that as a good makeshift silencer so I wouldn't be surprised of 07 ends up doing that!
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Old 2010-06-29, 12:12   Link #12048
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For what killings do you need a silencer, I am wondering? A ****ing typhoon is a god of silencing, so if you aren't in the same building then you don't need one. And as previously stated, these rooms seem to have a decent amount of soundproofing anyways.
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Old 2010-06-29, 12:24   Link #12049
Jan-Poo
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A gun makes a lot more noise than most people believe, and the so called "silencers" are nowhere close as silent as the movies make them sound.

I can however imagine that if you add up the typhoon, the thick walls of an old-style mansion, and a pillow the gunshot might go unnoticed or regarded at some less harmless event. Like a servant dropping a bottle or such.
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Old 2010-06-29, 12:46   Link #12050
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Well, I am willing to buy ep4 in that Battler is unlikely to have heard gunshots at the mansion from the guesthouse. I have no question the typhoon would drown out all but the loudest noises at that distance and between two buildings, or at the very least would sound like distant thunder.

My issue is what happens within the building itself when a person is allegedly killed by shooting. When that happens, everyone in the building should have heard it. Now in some cases they very well may have, but couldn't do anything to stop the killer. But in at least a few cases, Battler is actually in a building where the shootings would have had to occur, and doesn't hear a thing.

So either ryukishi overestimates silencers, or the weapon used isn't a powder-firing gun or somesuch loud weapon.
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Old 2010-06-29, 12:51   Link #12051
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
So either ryukishi overestimates silencers, or the weapon used isn't a powder-firing gun or somesuch loud weapon.
I don't think that you can make holes in skulls like that with a spear...

...well, unless you're Battler, maybe...
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Old 2010-06-29, 12:59   Link #12052
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Random interjection:

Erika is actually dead when she arrives on the island. However, because the Ushiromiyas are sadistic, they play with her corpse. They animate the body by holding her up by her arms and use ventriloquism to pretend like she's alive. Whenever the group splits up, one person is designated as the "carrier," and that person drags Erika's body around. Therefore, there is no contradiction with the red or Battler's perspective.

...Mostly a humor theory, but it came to me in a dream the other day. And yes, it was quite amusing to see Eva treat Erika's bloated corpse like a stuffed animal.

As for the whole noise issue, remember what the kids were doing: playing cards with each other. Now, I don't remember precisely when this is said, but they were very loud with each other (screaming, cheering, laughing). Do you think this could overcome the loudness of a suppressed gun?

Granted, the happy-happy fun times with the children pretty much end after the First Twilights, but it almost guarantees a reason that the kids didn't hear a gunshot at that time.

And we don't know how well the rooms are at muting sound; I'd imagine a rich guy like Kinzo would have nice, soundproofed walls. After all, I wouldn't put it past Kinzo. As long as the doors were shut, only a portion of the sound would actually leave the room.
Now, I will concede that it is strange how almost no one hears any gunshots like ever (with a few notable exceptions) but as they say, "the story gets what the story wants."
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Old 2010-06-29, 13:00   Link #12053
Smeckledorf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Well, I am willing to buy ep4 in that Battler is unlikely to have heard gunshots at the mansion from the guesthouse. I have no question the typhoon would drown out all but the loudest noises at that distance and between two buildings, or at the very least would sound like distant thunder.

My issue is what happens within the building itself when a person is allegedly killed by shooting. When that happens, everyone in the building should have heard it. Now in some cases they very well may have, but couldn't do anything to stop the killer. But in at least a few cases, Battler is actually in a building where the shootings would have had to occur, and doesn't hear a thing.

So either ryukishi overestimates silencers, or the weapon used isn't a powder-firing gun or somesuch loud weapon.
Which killings are you talking about specifically? I have a bad memory.

I would think it has to be in episodes 2 and 3 because from what I can remember the other four are fine on the sound aspect, if you don't count no screaming at all. Then again, all of the victims were likely drugged.

I have an unrelated question, the witch's trial at the end of episode 5 was said to be begin at 24:00 on the second day, the game's end, correct?

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Old 2010-06-29, 13:05   Link #12054
Oliver
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...Mostly a humor theory, but it came to me in a dream the other day. And yes, it was quite amusing to see Eva treat Erika's bloated corpse like a stuffed animal.
Well, that would surely explain why eating soup with chopsticks was no problem.
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Old 2010-06-29, 13:11   Link #12055
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I don't think anyone was shot in ep2. The killer seemed to be wandering around with some kind of sword (would Kinzo have some kind of cavalry sword hanging up somewhere? Eh). In ep 3, on the other hand, 5 people were apparently shot inside the mansion. While at least Natsuhi and Krauss were in there.

Come to think of it, doesn't it seem like Natsuhi and Krauss sleep in different rooms? Classic sign of marital discord right there :P.
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Old 2010-06-29, 13:13   Link #12056
Renall
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Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
Which killings are you talking about specifically? I have a bad memory.

I would think it has to be in episodes 2 and 3 because from what I can remember the other four are fine on the sound aspect, if you don't count no screaming at all. Then again, all of the victims were likely drugged.

I have an unrelated question, the witch's trial at the end of episode 5 was said to be begin at 24:00 on the second day, the game's end, correct?
Big ones I can think of are George/Gohda/Shannon and Nanjo/Kumasawa in ep2 (though if Nanjo and Kumasawa were actually killed in the courtyard, whether a gun was used or just the blade is immaterial enough), and Nanjo's murder in ep3. Nanjo especially, as he was pretty much just down the hallway from Eva and Battler. If he got capped, you'd figure they'd have heard.
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Old 2010-06-29, 13:17   Link #12057
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Hm... I would say either there is a spear shaped object or they were faking it. In episode 3, no one was in the building with Nanjo except Jessica and we don't know what she really heard.
I don't see a problem with Nanjo and Kumasawa in episode 2, the bodies could have been murdered in a different building then brought there. George, Gohda, and Shanon were killed by the stakes it appears.
I could have swore Eva and Battler were out of the mansion when Nanjo was killed in episode 3.
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Old 2010-06-29, 13:20   Link #12058
Oliver
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Come to think of it, doesn't it seem like Natsuhi and Krauss sleep in different rooms? Classic sign of marital discord right there :P.
Not in a family that patterns itself on the Victorian way of life, where that actually was normal, and physical intimacy of any kind was not something you let anyone else see or even think about -- and, well, they have a huge mansion, don't they.

I actually meet people who are distressed by having to share the bed for actual sleeping every now and then -- because they snore, try to roll the blanket into a tube while they sleep, or just can't fall asleep next to anyone, or for other silly reasons... so unfortunately the fact that they have different bedrooms doesn't tell us anything useful, families, like software and gases, naturally expand to occupy all space available.
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Old 2010-06-29, 13:21   Link #12059
Oliver
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Hm... I would say either there is a spear shaped object or they were faking it.
There is. And usually it's in Battler's hands, often a candlestick. Battler seems to be especially prone to improvising polearms.
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Old 2010-06-29, 13:23   Link #12060
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There is. And usually it's in Battler's hands, often a candlestick. Battler seems to be especially prone to improvising polearms.
Well no wonder everyone probably suspects him.

It'd actually be funny if Kanon thinks Battler is the murderer.
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