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Old 2009-08-13, 19:13   Link #1201
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Ep1 is the only game completely free of magical influences, at least until the clock strikes twelve.

It could very well be the only true reality, and everything after it is simply Beato's way of helping Battler understand the truth, in her own, twisted way.

Effectively, I mean that everything after Ep1 is, in fact, inside the Magic World/Meta-World, not in the Real World.

So, I have two questions:

1) How are we supposed to get our happy ending if everyone is dead? I mean, the witch might be able to bring them all back into the real world if she gets enough people to believe in her, but I know most people here would be pretty pissed with that kind of ending..

2) ...Do you guys think Ep1 actually counts as a "game", for the purposes of analyzing the red text?
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Old 2009-08-13, 19:42   Link #1202
Rias
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Ep1 is the only game completely free of magical influences, at least until the clock strikes twelve.

It could very well be the only true reality, and everything after it is simply Beato's way of helping Battler understand the truth, in her own, twisted way.

Effectively, I mean that everything after Ep1 is, in fact, inside the Magic World/Meta-World, not in the Real World.

So, I have two questions:

1) How are we supposed to get our happy ending if everyone is dead? I mean, the witch might be able to bring them all back into the real world if she gets enough people to believe in her, but I know most people here would be pretty pissed with that kind of ending..

2) ...Do you guys think Ep1 actually counts as a "game", for the purposes of analyzing the red text?
1. If using Higurashi as a guide, a "happy ending" would be one where no one dies, and the conflict is solved without anyone getting hurt. (Well people who are already dead in Oct 4....too bad :heh) That would require, similar to Higurashi, tackling and using Rule XYZ to their favor.


2. Even tho there weren't any red text from Ep1, there are many which applies back into Ep1. It can still be used to analyze the red text. Rather, looking back into ep1 with the new red text, we can see many things there weren't questionable when ep1 first came out (ie. Nanjo claiming he was playing chess with Kinzo on Oct 4th). Again, "Truth from the future beats truth from the past" by Bernkestal.
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Old 2009-08-13, 19:53   Link #1203
blitz1/2
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Ep1 is the only game completely free of magical influences, at least until the clock strikes twelve.

It could very well be the only true reality, and everything after it is simply Beato's way of helping Battler understand the truth, in her own, twisted way.

Effectively, I mean that everything after Ep1 is, in fact, inside the Magic World/Meta-World, not in the Real World.

So, I have two questions:

1) How are we supposed to get our happy ending if everyone is dead? I mean, the witch might be able to bring them all back into the real world if she gets enough people to believe in her, but I know most people here would be pretty pissed with that kind of ending..

2) ...Do you guys think Ep1 actually counts as a "game", for the purposes of analyzing the red text?

1) Everyone will be happy at the golden land, surely that would be enough.
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Old 2009-08-13, 20:10   Link #1204
Ssol
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Ep1 is the only game completely free of magical influences, at least until the clock strikes twelve.

It could very well be the only true reality, and everything after it is simply Beato's way of helping Battler understand the truth, in her own, twisted way.

Effectively, I mean that everything after Ep1 is, in fact, inside the Magic World/Meta-World, not in the Real World.

So, I have two questions:

1) How are we supposed to get our happy ending if everyone is dead? I mean, the witch might be able to bring them all back into the real world if she gets enough people to believe in her, but I know most people here would be pretty pissed with that kind of ending..

2) ...Do you guys think Ep1 actually counts as a "game", for the purposes of analyzing the red text?
1) Through the course of the games we may find that the only one who truly did not find happiness is Battler. Then the questions are:
What regrets did he have from his life?
What was his sin?
What is he truly searching for?

2) I view episode 1 as the only real game and the other games as worlds where Beatrice is trying to show Battler something.
The enemy (Bernkastel/Lambda) may try tactics to confuse Battler during these games (Ange).
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Old 2009-08-13, 20:16   Link #1205
Rias
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Just before I work my ass off translating, is there anyone working on translating the theory/speculation page from the Umineco wiki? I just felt that alot of the theories that are out on this board are repeats of old ideas, and there are always people who wants to see other theories.

If no one is working on it, it would serve as a thing for me to work on before ep5 comes out :eh:
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Old 2009-08-13, 20:43   Link #1206
Kibou
Clueless
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 27
Randomly, been sort of working on a theory of my own.

Spoiler for Win Conditions:
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Old 2009-08-13, 21:11   Link #1207
k//eternal
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 25
A while back, I said that even if Battler proves that there's no magic involved, it's not really going to keep his whole family from getting killed by whoever the non-witch culprit is. It's not like the killer would stop just because Battler shows them that witches don't exist, right? It's completely irrelevant if they're not supernatural.

Consequently, I'm pretty sure that "prove no magic was involved" isn't going to be the real ending, and I think to prevent the tragedy, one way or another, Battler will end up allowing for the existence of magic.
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Old 2009-08-13, 23:42   Link #1208
Used Can
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Join Date: Feb 2008
I've tried thinking of a way to deny the Meta-world before, but then, I'd have to deny the red text as well, and if I do that, I'd lose almost all of my footing on the story. At the same time, I like the meta-world characters far better than the real-world ones. In fact, I'm not particularly fond of the latter.

For now, I'm regarding the Meta-world as Freddy Krueger's dream world (but with hot witches, ass neechans, goats, and Bros).

But, anyway, I've also theorised the possibility of a 3rd Beatrice (as in, one after the one Rosa saw die) existing. But, all the same, Genji said Beatrice died back then, and the boat's captain told Ange he was told not to deliver anything else to Kuwadorian 20 years before 1986. However, there are other points that have kept me wondering about the possibility of this 3rd Beatrice, like Beato saying she "remained" in the island after the "homunculus" one died; also Kyrie's impression of the Beatrice she saw was that of a woman in her 20s (which matches the time gap after Rosa's Beatrice died, and before the events in Rokkenjima), and there's also the girl in Beato's dream, who talked about this grandfather (Kinzo, I assume), but the Beatrice Rosa met said she regarded Kinzo as a father (well, she could always have grown to think of him as such).
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Old 2009-08-14, 00:04   Link #1209
Christen
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Age: 29
Something hit me again about the epitaph. I just keep on thinking about it eh? I can't leave it, I don't really know why.

Spoiler for epitaph:
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Old 2009-08-14, 01:59   Link #1210
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
For my second question, I was more trying to get at something else:

Does Ep1 count as a "game" for the purposes of the following red text?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beato
"Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games!"
If Ep1 doesn't count as a "game", given that the game between Beato and Battler didn't start until AFTER Ep1... Kinzo might still have been alive at the very, very start.

Is there anything to disprove this? Is this too far-fetched?
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Old 2009-08-14, 02:01   Link #1211
zorahk
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Actually, 悪 used to be written with 亞 as the top radical before the shinjitai (新字体) reform. Many elderly people may still write it this way. This is also how it is written in China and Korea.
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Old 2009-08-14, 02:37   Link #1212
hchuang
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
For my second question, I was more trying to get at something else:

Does Ep1 count as a "game" for the purposes of the following red text?



If Ep1 doesn't count as a "game", given that the game between Beato and Battler didn't start until AFTER Ep1... Kinzo might still have been alive at the very, very start.

Is there anything to disprove this? Is this too far-fetched?
Can't disproved... but

I'd simply assume the author wouldn't resort to such lame trickery and that the meaning of the text are written in a very straight forward, precise, unambiguous manner, such that there can be no misunderstanding, contradiction, or multi-interpretations. Multiple times red texts are used to reinforce the straight-forward interpretations of prior red texts, as battler has asked to clarify word meaning as to ensure no such trickery exists. I can't think of an instance where the red text's obvious interpretation by any audience was compromised to mean something very different.

I think Ryukishi07 knows his logic well...
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Old 2009-08-14, 03:04   Link #1213
k//eternal
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christen View Post
Something hit me again about the epitaph. I just keep on thinking about it eh? I can't leave it, I don't really know why.

Spoiler for epitaph:
That might actually be critical, although I have no idea how.

Kinzo was pissed off when Rosa named Maria, and it's probably because her name somehow compromises his riddle--either by creating a red herring, or by actually making it easier. By drawing attention to that kanji, it could be the latter.
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Old 2009-08-14, 04:15   Link #1214
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hchuang View Post
I can't think of an instance where the red text's obvious interpretation by any audience was compromised to mean something very different.
Um. Just like to point out, one of the things hammered into us through the Ange story in Ep4 is that TRUTH IS SUBJECTIVE.

Most of the red text/truth is subjective in regards to the person who says it... and a few lines could definitely be twisted in certain ways.

In Umineko, nothing is straightforward...
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Old 2009-08-14, 10:02   Link #1215
Skullchukka
Letter from lost days ~
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Netherlands / Turkey
Age: 26
I've finally pre-ordered 2 copies of Episode 5. I'm very excited now xD
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Old 2009-08-14, 10:03   Link #1216
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullchukka View Post
I've finally pre-ordered 2 copies of Episode 5. I'm very excited now xD
2 copies XD? give one to me lol
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Old 2009-08-14, 10:58   Link #1217
Volcanic
fire of fires
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
2 copies XD? give one to me lol
I want one too D8

Well, it comes out tomorrow. LET'S HERE SOME MORE CRAZY THEORIES COMPRENDE?
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Old 2009-08-14, 11:03   Link #1218
Shinguji
Constantly Lurking
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Holed up in a dorm room
Age: 21
Hm... let me give it a shot:

Spoiler for not-that-much-but-still-kinda-is-a-crack-theory:
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Old 2009-08-14, 11:05   Link #1219
momobunny
◔ ◡ ◔
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Age: 23
I just can't wait to find out the new girl's name. =D
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Old 2009-08-14, 11:06   Link #1220
Shinguji
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^ Me either. Then we won't have to call her "new girl" all the time. ^^
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