AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-07-03, 04:10   Link #12461
Kylon99
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Considering that an interview of his says that for the solution of the epitaph puzzle, one has to know of the borders of Japan in 1900, it would be silly to assume his other puzzles exist in a vacuum.
THIS! Do you know where that came from? I remember reading it too. I've been searching for the source of this memory of mine for the longest time... 8)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Escargotage View Post
Thanks. B.kun also edited his message with that. I was looking for the source so I know which page to watch for more info. 8) Although I won't need to pre-order.. I'll be standing in line that day in Japan.. 8)
Kylon99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 04:11   Link #12462
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
THIS! Do you know where that came from? I remember reading it too. I've been searching for the source of this memory of mine for the longest time... 8)
I've seen it mentioned in this thread. But let me dig around...

EDIT: ...damn, can't this man keep everything he says posted in one place?... Well, maybe he does, but there is nothing like a central repository of the translated stuff.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 04:23   Link #12463
Kylon99
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
I can't find it on the web either, it must be someone within these 622 pages of messages. 8)
Kylon99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 04:32   Link #12464
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
I can't find it on the web either, it must be someone within these 622 pages of messages. 8)
I see references to the phrase "樺太の北緯50度から台湾の南端の岬であるガランビまで全部想定して考えなければならないですから・・・ " which has to be from that one interview.

Unfortunately the phrase itself may be incorrectly cited in one way or another, as I can't find the interview itself, and since I can't really read it, it would take hours.

EDIT: As a side note, the document that cites it in this way describes the Qilian epitaph theory in the "quadrillionth" variant, with "lord hut" as the preferred anagram to work with in the end.

EDIT EDIT: I think what everyone means by this is this interview, but I didn't find a translation.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 05:00   Link #12465
Kylon99
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
Hmmm.. I see that phrase repeated on the websites. It seems to come from the Umineko loda site here:
http://loda.jp/when_they_cry_3/?id=2560.txt

This text file has some theories I think. It does say:
先ほどの竜騎士07の発言は「樺太の北緯50度から台湾の南端の岬であるガランビまで全部想定して考えなけ ればならないですから・・・」ということになる
The translation:
Before, Ryukishi was saying "You have to be thinking about the entirety from the Sakhalin island 50 degrees latitude in the north to the Granbi(?) cape of Taiwan."

That interview you linked was translated here. Note how they talk about the difficulty of knowing the difference between Knight and Night.
http://community.livejournal.com/witchhunters/7134.html

Hmmm...
Kylon99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 05:07   Link #12466
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
Hmmm.. I see that phrase repeated on the websites. It seems to come from the Umineko loda site here:
http://loda.jp/when_they_cry_3/?id=2560.txt
Actually, that file on loda.jp is pretty clearly forum fallout and not the original source itself. Forum post was probably on 2ch or somewhere like that and as expected, now lost. It references the interview I cited, but this quote they attribute to Ryukishi is not present in it explicitly.

They don't say where the heck they found it.

EDIT: Why is it definitely forum fallout? Because otherwise it would be in SJIS and not UTF-8.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 05:15   Link #12467
Kylon99
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
Yah. I was saying before that a Taiwan or Korea theory makes more sense because he said something like that. Although I couldn't find where he said that. I must have picked it up from a friend quoting 2ch for me or something.

Of course you'd want to look at the entire Imperial Japan boundaries, but if I could find an actual interview where he said it then it would be a Ryukishi Answer that a mainland theory would not be suitable.

Anyways.. nevermind. Carry on. 8)
Kylon99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 05:27   Link #12468
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
Of course you'd want to look at the entire Imperial Japan boundaries, but if I could find an actual interview where he said it then it would be a Ryukishi Answer that a mainland theory would not be suitable.
Actually, I have arrived at the Taiwan location for hometown through a completely different logic anyway.

EDIT: Abstract, but I doublepost too much anyway. There's two episodes missing.

Episode 5.56 and Episode 7.62!
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 05:35   Link #12469
Kylon99
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
Yah, I and I think mostly everyone is sold on the Taiwan theory anyways. I just wanted to graduate it from a theory of clues to a theory supported by a Ryukishi Answer.

EDIT: Geez, it's just us two on this board now. I feel like we've discussed the game to death. 8)
Kylon99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 05:38   Link #12470
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
Yah, I and I think mostly everyone is sold on the Taiwan theory anyways. I just wanted to graduate it from a theory of clues to a theory supported by a Ryukishi Answer.
Well, there's still two undecidable variants in the Qilian theory. That is, quadrillion -> LORD U and quadrillionth -> LORD HUT.

The first does not point at the location where the code is to be input directly, the second one seems to hint at that gazebo (or whatever the proper word is) which also forms the central hub of the Golden Land imagery when Beatrice is involved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
EDIT: Geez, it's just us two on this board now. I feel like we've discussed the game to death. 8)
Wait until Ep6 translation is released, and I am very much convinced you will despair that this is not so at least for a few days.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 07:39   Link #12471
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Minor tangent back to the track.

Episode 6: Women play dead, and Kyrie picks Krauss' study as the room to do so.

Now, why would she do that? The innuendo involved makes this decision rather silly. To look for proof of his embezzlement? She doesn't need any, they can start an official investigation as interested parties, that investigation will find all the proof there is. All they need to do is to convince Krauss they're seriously going to stab him in the back if he doesn't comply, well, you don't need proof for that, and having it won't help.

So, what is there left to dig up? Why Kyrie is even interested in badgering Krauss, for that matter, is it really just for Rudolf's court trouble? In Ep4, she is presented as the originator of the extortion plot, however, in Ep2, she is not even aware of Rudolf's financial troubles. While these scenes are obviously contradictory, neither is in any way in red, and in fact, something between them might be true.

Well... Here's a theory on what Kyrie really wants from Krauss.

Kyrie is aware that her child was not stillborn. In fact, she was told so, but has discovered that was not the truth. Further investigation of the paper trail revealed the child was put up for adoption, and it took her 18 years to track down who adopted it. And it looks like Ushiromiya Krauss knows something!

Since Kyrie does not know about the babies being switched, she suspects that Jessica may be that missing child of hers, and she needs to confront Krauss about it while having some ammunition he will not be able to shrug off.

Kyrie was indeed in hell for 18 years. It just didn't stop when she married Rudolf!
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 08:28   Link #12472
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post

Kyrie was indeed in hell for 18 years. It just didn't stop when she married Rudolf!
Then how Rosa knows?
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 08:34   Link #12473
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Then how Rosa knows?
Kyrie simply told Rosa. While looking for ways to get at Krauss and enlisting her help.

And didn't you yourself say they're friendly, if only because of Maria and Ange being in an age group of their own? A lot of secrets can change hands between two mothers watching their children play.

EDIT: Or was it Judoh, I forget? Sorry if I made a mistake here.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 08:42   Link #12474
Judoh
Mystery buff
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
EDIT: Or was it Judoh, I forget? Sorry if I made a mistake here.
Yeah that was me.
Judoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 08:46   Link #12475
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Kyrie simply told Rosa. While looking for ways to get at Krauss and enlisting her help.
They are friendly but I'm not sure they trust each other to the point of revealing each other secrets (in fact it is implied they don't talk and meet very often outside the family meetings).

But even so, let's suppose that Kyrie told Rosa about that, why would Rosa tell such a thing to Kanon so casually?
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 08:49   Link #12476
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
But even so, let's suppose that Kyrie told Rosa about that, why would Rosa tell such a thing to Kanon so casually?
Because she tells Kanon a number which is meaningless by itself, it just conveys magnitude and expresses well what Rosa wants to express. Since Rosa does not explain why it's 18 years and not some other number, she is not actually revealing any secrets, it takes knowing a lot more to even get close at it.

EDIT: As a side note, this reasoning gives Krauss a possible motive for the first twilight murder in Ep1, which he was otherwise lacking even though he was an identified corpse, and thus could stay alive due to the red.

Kyrie confronted him, and being unable to respond in kind and pressed to the wall with several extremely unacceptable alternatives, he killed her. Then he made a forest of corpses to hide her in. That obviously does not require him to commit all the remaining murders.

Doesn't sound very likely though, but we're generally dismissing Krauss too easily.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 09:39   Link #12477
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Krauss is probably the person who most easily can be connected to a whydunnit for the final explosion.

If he's lying to Natsuhi about his new business plan proceeding smoothly (which is not far off considering the circumstances), then he is in a position to know how the whole family is going to bankrupt, including his siblings and related spouses which have problems of their own.

That could be the trigger for him to decide to kill everyone in an "unfortunate incident". Unfortunately family mass suicides for economic reasons are not so uncommon.

In this case I can imagine that Beatrice learned about this plan but rather than stop Krauss she decided to let him execute it for some reasons, maybe because she wants to die herself considering her situation due to Battler's sin.
So she converted a part of the gold in money and sent the letters to all the relatives as a way to pay for their loss. At the same time she decides to give the family a chance. A chance to find the gold so Krauss doesn't have to kill everyone anymore.

But if Krauss dies first or if Krauss doesn't know the gold has been found it would be all useless.

The only weak point with this is the fact that according to the 1998 where Eva survives, she became super rich.

However this can be explained with the gold, and the fact that she had to sell Kinzo's books can be a hint that she had a lot of economic problems in the beginning. She might have managed to rebuild the Ushiromiya's wealth from scratch like Kinzo did before her.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 09:50   Link #12478
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That could be the trigger for him to decide to kill everyone in an "unfortunate incident". Unfortunately family mass suicides for economic reasons are not so uncommon.
That works. Why everyone, though? Let's see how they will deal with it without their elder brother. The bomb is set up so that it blows up after everyone except Krauss and his family would leave, if it weren't for the typhoon -- and incidentally, before the next shift of servants arrives, which would be Monday morning. This is about just as humane as a suicide by explosion gets, especially if he expects to send the servants away with the boat that takes the family away as well under a pretext.

It remains a question where and how the bomb actually works, though, because certain types of explosion can exclude Krauss from being able to commit it anyway. For example, if this is a treasure vault from the WWII loot and what blows up is it's self-defence system, Krauss can't arm, or he would know about the gold and would not need to do that.

He could import explosives for foundation digging, though, and that would clearly be 'an unfortunate accident' in the press later.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 09:59   Link #12479
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
That's unlikely, if Krauss wanted to kill his own family and just that he had plenty of time to do it. If this reasoning is correct then it's more probable that it was his intention to kill everyone. If anything the typhoon let him postpone his plans by one day so to take that chance of finding the gold.

As to why kill everyone, there can be several reasons. Pride can be one, he doesn't want his siblings to know how miserably he failed. Also there's a high chance that his failures and crimes would be forever forgotten if everyone dies rather than just his closest relatives.
It's interesting to note that everyone involved in the "Kinzo is still alive" plot dies as well.
So he's got a reason to kill everyone... except Gohda... poor bastard...

The only thing that can't be explained it's Ange. Of course if she just happened to get sick, then Krauss couldn't do much about that. But it's very convenient...
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-03, 10:14   Link #12480
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That's unlikely, if Krauss wanted to kill his own family and just that he had plenty of time to do it. If this reasoning is correct then it's more probable that it was his intention to kill everyone. If anything the typhoon let him postpone his plans by one day so to take that chance of finding the gold.
It would not be about 'kill'. It would also be about destroying the mansion he no longer owns. ...ooh, idea. How's that scenario:

Krauss did not find the gold, but he actually has recently extracted certain resources from his business. It's failing, and it's going to fail even faster now, but Krauss has enough for a tidy quiet life in the shadows somewhere in, say, Paraguay, together with his family and fake identities for everyone he chooses to take with him.

What Krauss did find, though, was the Kuwadorian, located while he was researching the island for use as a resort.

So he plans to blow up the mansion in an 'accident' and run away, and guests sticking for longer than expected is an unpleasant complication. Servants are the sacrifices to ensure there are some bodies to discover -- they're in on the Kinzo Phantom Conspiracy and need to die anyway.

Beatrice Letters are actually an old plan of Kinzo's that he discovered, unused. He is revealing them through Maria's Beatrice, Shannon to try for a last chance in finding the gold, then he doesn't have to run away and can turn the bomb off. Letters with safe keys are sent to the families of those who will stay on the island and die as anonymous compensation, by Shannon on Krauss' orders, she may or may not understand why. Shannon is probably supposed to be kept alive for Jessica's sake.

And Ange just thinks she might have gotten such a letter -- she actually didn't. Only those letters she actually located existed, the other safes are empty and were rented by Krauss in bulk to complicate investigation.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.