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Old 2010-07-06, 03:09   Link #13081
Almazluverdis3
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Can anyone give us the Knox rules again? Please?
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:12   Link #13082
Judoh
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Just look them up on the wiki.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:14   Link #13083
Raiza Sunozaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Oh yeah, I totally forgot. Maybe she meant Beato's death in EP5?

Yes, I'm trying to mess with you like a good incompetent anti-fantasy.
As I said somewhere else, Beato's death in Episode 5 is moot. Why? Because Battler, no longer an incompetent idiot in Episode 6, comes along and revives her.
That Battler, always getting in the way of people who want to kill others.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:14   Link #13084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
Spoiler for From http://www.diogenes-club.com/knoxrules.htm:
Found the rules. Searching can really help, guys.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:17   Link #13085
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Found the rules. Searching can really help, guys.
They're phrased differently in Umineko though. So I'd use the wording they use in the game.

Knox's 5th for example is completely omitted.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:20   Link #13086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
As I said somewhere else, Beato's death in Episode 5 is moot. Why? Because Battler, no longer an incompetent idiot in Episode 6, comes along and revives her.
That Battler, always getting in the way of people who want to kill others.
Exactly! People die because of Battler. But then he breaks his sin by reviving thee who declared he was incompetent, thus breaking it it.
In other words, you break 17 twigs, then you grow a tree.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:25   Link #13087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
They're phrased differently in Umineko though. So I'd use the wording they use in the game.

Knox's 5th for example is completely omitted.
Really? I never knew. But still, some rules do apply.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:25   Link #13088
Raiza Sunozaki
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Because I'm feeling anti-lazy at four in the morning, here's the Decalogue:
Knox's 1st: It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story.
Knox's 2nd: It is forbidden for supernatural agencies to be employed as a detective technique.
Knox's 3rd: It is forbidden for hidden passages to exist.
Knox's 4th: It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used.
Knox's 5th: Not applicable.
Knox's 6th: It is forbidden for accident or intuition to be employed as a detective technique.
Knox's 7th: It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit.
Knox's 8th: It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.
Knox's 9th: It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard.
Knox's 10th: It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves without any clues.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:30   Link #13089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
Because I'm feeling anti-lazy at four in the morning, here's the Decalogue:
Knox's 1st: It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the story.
Knox's 2nd: It is forbidden for supernatural agencies to be employed as a detective technique.
Knox's 3rd: It is forbidden for hidden passages to exist.
Knox's 4th: It is forbidden for unknown drugs or hard to understand scientific devices to be used.
Knox's 5th: Not applicable.
Knox's 6th: It is forbidden for accident or intuition to be employed as a detective technique.
Knox's 7th: It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit.
Knox's 8th: It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.
Knox's 9th: It is permitted for observers to let their own conclusions and interpretations be heard.
Knox's 10th: It is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves without any clues.
Oh, thanks.

Crack theory #4:- The milf did it.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:33   Link #13090
Raiza Sunozaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Exactly! People die because of Battler. But then he breaks his sin by reviving thee who declared he was incompetent, thus breaking it it.
In other words, you break 17 twigs, then you grow a tree.
That's not quite how I see it. This is my interpretation:
Episode 1-4: Battler is incompetent. No matter what he does, he can never grasp the solution to the mysteries. Every time he thinks he's solved it, some witch swings by and trolls him with a line or ten of red text and smashes his theories.
Episode 5: Battler is mostly incompetent in this Episode. Piece-Battler performs extraordinarily under the control of Bern and Lambda, but Meta-Battler fails on occasion, specifically trying to defend Beato in the Trial. Then he gets all the time in the world to solve the mystery, and with the help of the Decalogue, reaches the truth.
However, he is still incompetent (albeit no longer an idiot) and fails to save Beato from giving up. Then he goes all out and totally smashes Erika's petty attempts to solve the mysteries.
Episode 6: I'm convinced this is completely Genius Battler in play. Basically, he knows exactly what he's doing the entire time, and the whole mess he gets himself into is only a risk, a gamble, in order to have the odds high enough to perform the level of miracle it takes to revive Beato.
In short, it works.
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Old 2010-07-06, 03:37   Link #13091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
That's not quite how I see it. This is my interpretation:
Episode 1-4: Battler is incompetent. No matter what he does, he can never grasp the solution to the mysteries. Every time he thinks he's solved it, some witch swings by and trolls him with a line or ten of red text and smashes his theories.
Episode 5: Battler is mostly incompetent in this Episode. Piece-Battler performs extraordinarily under the control of Bern and Lambda, but Meta-Battler fails on occasion, specifically trying to defend Beato in the Trial. Then he gets all the time in the world to solve the mystery, and with the help of the Decalogue, reaches the truth.
However, he is still incompetent (albeit no longer an idiot) and fails to save Beato from giving up. Then he goes all out and totally smashes Erika's petty attempts to solve the mysteries.
Episode 6: I'm convinced this is completely Genius Battler in play. Basically, he knows exactly what he's doing the entire time, and the whole mess he gets himself into is only a risk, a gamble, in order to have the odds high enough to perform the level of miracle it takes to revive Beato.
In short, it works.
Characters who believe Beato have mentioned this before.

EP1- Kanon's sleep-worthy but important speech on gambling (Has this guy gone to Vegas or something?)
EP2- Maria. She said that risk is needed for all magic.

See the pattern?
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Old 2010-07-06, 04:09   Link #13092
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I always point out Bern's "she's a Doll like Corpse line" to show she died in EP 4. She basically said the only reason she exists right now is because of Lambda's shackle rule. And that that prevented her from leaving the game. I'm not going to pull up the quote again and again just to show that. I really just think she's dead by EP4, but that's just me.
I said i wasn't going to quote it again, but I guess I'll do it for the newer members. Don't get me wrong It's not like I want to help you or anything. I just can't be bothered with having to explain this over and over again ~Tsun

Quote:
Bern: "Never again. This child will never laugh again"
Battler: "How can you say for sure!? Quit trying to steal Beato's right to laugh."
Bern:"....Oh should I say it in red then...?"

Bern: "Beato is like this as a result of your victory"
Battler'....what are you talking about...?"

Bern: "You said something interesting in a previous game. You said this would be a torture where you both torment each other. That was right. It was torture for Beato as well. And you won that torture game. .....That's why Beato's soul was killed and why she became a doll like corpse."
Battler:"are you saying that I did this to Beato?"
Bern: "The battle ends when one of you loses the will to try and win...As far as battle between you and Beatrice goes, the conclusion was already reached last time. Well it probably happened with you noticing though."
Battler: "In that case why hasn't the game ended when I've already won?...Why is this game still continuing?"
Bern: "The shackle against the girl's ankle... that's a rule Lambda made."

Even if Beatrice tries to yield and gets discouraged or gives up she isn't capable of stepping down from the game....That's the rule or maybe it's a curse...
If I have to I'll post the whole group of images to prove it. The fact is Beato died in EP4. get it?
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Old 2010-07-06, 04:20   Link #13093
Almazluverdis3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I said i wasn't going to quote it again, but I guess I'll do it for the newer members. Don't get me wrong It's not like I want to help you or anything. I just can't be bothered with having to explain this over and over again ~Tsun



If I have to I'll post the whole group of images to prove it. The fact is Beato died in EP4. get it?
Yup. But Bern and 34 brought her back.
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Old 2010-07-06, 04:21   Link #13094
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Yup. But Bern and 34 brought her back.
I'm pretty sure it was Battler that did that actually. Interesting twist no?
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Old 2010-07-06, 04:28   Link #13095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I'm sure it was Battler that did that actually. Interesting twist no?
Very interesting. Behold, the the Almaz text! It's fan stupid text that stands for crack theories!
Gohda loves Beatrice! He wants to marry her!(See EP2)
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Old 2010-07-06, 04:42   Link #13096
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Therefore, Only Almazluverdis3 can use this awesome text. Get it?

I just felt like making a new text XD
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Old 2010-07-06, 06:44   Link #13097
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I agree with Judoh. Beatrice was killed by Battler and the reason she remained on the gameboard was Lambda. Then once her presence wasn't necessary anymore for her gameboard to exist, the shackles that bound her were released causing her to disappear.

Somehow this makes me think that Battler did answer to Beatrice's last question in EP4 but we were never allowed to see it. Any other way I don't explain how Beatrice died or lost, since in order to win the human side is required to explain all the mysteries.

Then again... Erika never explained the letter in EP5...
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Old 2010-07-06, 07:06   Link #13098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I agree with Judoh. Beatrice was killed by Battler and the reason she remained on the gameboard was Lambda. Then once her presence wasn't necessary anymore for her gameboard to exist, the shackles that bound her were released causing her to disappear.

Somehow this makes me think that Battler did answer to Beatrice's last question in EP4 but we were never allowed to see it. Any other way I don't explain how Beatrice died or lost, since in order to win the human side is required to explain all the mysteries.

Then again... Erika never explained the letter in EP5...
I agree. Though Battler might have said, "You are an idiot. " Then got OWNED.

Ushiromiya Battler said, "You are an idoit." to Beatrice in EP4.
FUCK YEAH ALMAZ TEXT
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Old 2010-07-06, 08:27   Link #13099
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Magic doesn't exist. I live by that as an anti-fantasy. There is no way for Goldsmith to exist unless everyone in the mansion is hallucinating. Therefore, Everyone was drunk! Even Kanon and Maria, the minors!
"I don't think it's wise to serve a nine-year-old wine, Mr. Krauss sir."

"Gohda, as a man of refined taste and sublime skill, can you recommend anything to be served with this meal other than wine?"

"...well no, but she's looking very intoxicated."

"An then I... I shaid... mama... hahahahah! Uu~, Maria's gonna have a hangover..."

"Hah! What a lightweight. She's going to be messed up once we all eat that cake I had Gohda lace with LSD."

"I didn't lace the cake with LSD!"

"Oh. Well then it must've been me. Cuz it's in there."
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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2010-07-06, 11:37   Link #13100
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I am so late it doesn't even offer excuse (my last post was in March- I've devolved into a lurker, it seems) but thanks to freeze-framing and Windows 7's Snipping tool, I have some HQ screens for you all in response to some posts here.

Spoiler for EP7 OP:
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