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Old 2010-07-09, 00:30   Link #13501
Judoh
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It doesn't even really matter. All the red says is that if you saw their corpses you can confirm they are dead. That doesn't necessitate by itself that they're dead right now even if you think the text implies that. Erika never saw them and we have no reliable narration saying anyone else did. Furthermore if we are to beleive what the ???? says they pretty much have to be faking because they were never moved. Otherwise they died in completely different rooms from the guestroom Battler was in. This is pretty much the way we have to treat that red if the first twilights are initially faked, which is probably Virgilia's hint anyway.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-07-09 at 00:41.
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Old 2010-07-09, 02:10   Link #13502
Almazluverdis3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameskitty View Post
Yeah, my first hunch for the caller was Kanon, and since first hunches have an odd tendency to be right, I still have a feeling that he's the one doing it. (and if he's always speaking his usual bored monotone around her, then just a bit of "evil" inflection would be enough to put Natsuhi off-guard - on the other hand, it'd be difficult for a mother not to recognize her own daughter's voice)

Why he's doing it or how he knows about all of that is a bit harder to answer. Maybe it slipped during one of his random prank sessions with Kinzo.
Maybe Jessica could eat that gum that changes your accent. But I don't think they had those back in '86. Anyway, I also think it's Kanon who's calling. Of course, I can't say it in my awesome Almaz text because I'm not sure. But who thinks it could be Kinzo himself? I mean, no one, not even Nanjo would suspect Kinzo did it. Kanon would probably be Natsi's second choice of who calls her. (Krauss is the first, though the caller sounds young.)
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Old 2010-07-09, 02:14   Link #13503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Maybe Jessica could eat that gum that changes your accent. But I don't think they had those back in '86. Anyway, I also think it's Kanon who's calling. Of course, I can't say it in my awesome Almaz text because I'm not sure. But who thinks it could be Kinzo himself? I mean, no one, not even Nanjo would suspect Kinzo did it. Kanon would probably be Natsi's second choice of who calls her. (Krauss is the first, though the caller sounds young.)
Umm Kinzo is already dead when the call happens. For a year. Dlanor would have a field day with that.
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Old 2010-07-09, 02:20   Link #13504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Umm Kinzo is already dead when the call happens. For a year. Dlanor would have a field day with that.
Oh my. CARD CRUSHER.

A year? So the Top Three (That's what I call Genji, Shannon and Kanon), Natsuhi, Kruass and Nanjo might be hallucinating like crazy. These people still think he's alive, of course. They all maintain illusions on a sickly, insane Kinzo. So you'll never know, Natsuhi might have imagined Kinzo calling her.

OR MAYBE IT WAS GOLDSMITHU
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Old 2010-07-09, 02:28   Link #13505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
Oh my. CARD CRUSHER.

A year? So the Top Three (That's what I call Genji, Shannon and Kanon), Natsuhi, Kruass and Nanjo might be hallucinating like crazy. These people still think he's alive, of course. They all maintain illusions on a sickly, insane Kinzo. So you'll never know, Natsuhi might have imagined Kinzo calling her.

OR MAYBE IT WAS GOLDSMITHU
That aren't hallucinating; they are lying. They are trying to get so none of the other siblings think he is dead, because Krauss had been committing some acts that would have him thrown in jail if it was known.
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Old 2010-07-09, 02:57   Link #13506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTR View Post
How did I not notice this?! It does say Tomitake FLASH. That's so hilarious hahaha
It does say that!

Spoiler for EP6, major spoiler though everyone knows about it:
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Old 2010-07-09, 02:59   Link #13507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
That aren't hallucinating; they are lying. They are trying to get so none of the other siblings think he is dead, because Krauss had been committing some acts that would have him thrown in jail if it was known.
That makes sense. But why would the Top Three want to lie? What about Nanjo?

EDIT: Nanjo is lying because he wants cash.
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Old 2010-07-09, 03:58   Link #13508
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So we were talking about the Gold text in the EP 6 thread and I got the idea to write as many of the Dine rules in Golden text as I can well here I go.

1. There is no mystery the reader can't solve, everything else is not a mystery

(second is omitted since I don't know what to do with it)

3. Love is blind! Any detective who is in love is also blind! (pretty much a troll to entire theme of the story)

4. You are not the culprit. By my name I will not allow the detective to be the culprit!

6. The detective detects! He will deduce, he will dedicate himself, and by god he will detect!

7 (pretty much solved with the Kinzo gold)

9. This isn't the Hardy boys where your detectives are a bunch of kids. There is but one detective

10. Did this culprit play any big part in this story? I do not like boring culprits

11. Sir I know thy servants well. Trust me when I say your culprit is not thy servant...

12. We're not writing a story about a bunch of barbarians. There is only one culprit in this story

13. Crimes beget justice and your culprit will not fallback on suspicious societies and mafias to avoid said justice.

16. No more fooling around with side stories I've seen enough of George Shannon Kanon and Jessica.They're barely any more entertaining than a popcorn movie. I'll read something else if I want to read side stories

18. The Rokkenjima accident... what an unfitting title. This thing was deliberate not an accident!

the rest are so boring and obvious that I don't want to try.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-07-09 at 04:25.
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Old 2010-07-09, 04:03   Link #13509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
So we were talking about the Gold text in the EP 6 thread and I got the idea to write as many of the Dine rules in Golden text as I can well here I go.

1. There is no mystery the reader can't solve, everything else is not a mystery

(second is omitted since I don't know what to do with it)

3. Love is blind! Any detective who is in love is also blind! (pretty much a troll to entire theme of the story)

4. You are not the culprit. By my name I will not allow the detective to be the culprit!

6. The detective detects! He will deduce, he will dedicate himself, and by god he will detect!

7 (pretty much solved with the Kinzo gold)

10. Did this culprit play any big part in this story? I do not like boring culprits

11. Sir I know thy servants well. Trust me when I say your culprit is not thy servant...

13. Crimes beget justice and your culprit will not fallback on suspicious societies and mafias to avoid justice.


the rest are so boring and obvious that I don't want to try.

Servants are so not innocent. It can't be.
The servants are not innocent by any means. Regardless to if they did it or not.

ALMAZ TEXT XD
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Old 2010-07-09, 04:25   Link #13510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3 View Post
That makes sense. But why would the Top Three want to lie? What about Nanjo?

EDIT: Nanjo is lying because he wants cash.
This is a big question. What reason do Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo have for helping Natsuhi and Krauss cover up Kinzo's death? Really it doesn't make much sense, after all if they wanted money I'm sure they could easily get paid for their info by the other siblings, or blackmail Natsuhi and Krauss. And this at least to me, really seems like they are shamming the family name, by covering up Kinzo's death. So I would think that at least Nanjo (Kinzo's close friend) and Genji (Another of Kinzo's old friends/butler) wouldn't agree to keep this a secret.
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Old 2010-07-09, 04:27   Link #13511
Judoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
This is a big question. What reason do Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo have for helping Natsuhi and Krauss cover up Kinzo's death? Really it doesn't make much sense, after all if they wanted money I'm sure they could easily get paid for their info by the other siblings, or blackmail Natsuhi and Krauss. And this at least to me, really seems like they are shamming the family name, by covering up Kinzo's death. So I would think that at least Nanjo (Kinzo's close friend) and Genji (Another of Kinzo's old friends/butler) wouldn't agree to keep this a secret.
If Kinzo's death is revealed they pretty much have to pay a 70% inheritance tax. It's a lot of pressure so they'd help to keep them from getting in deep trouble I'd bet.
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Old 2010-07-09, 04:41   Link #13512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
This is a big question. What reason do Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo have for helping Natsuhi and Krauss cover up Kinzo's death? Really it doesn't make much sense, after all if they wanted money I'm sure they could easily get paid for their info by the other siblings, or blackmail Natsuhi and Krauss. And this at least to me, really seems like they are shamming the family name, by covering up Kinzo's death. So I would think that at least Nanjo (Kinzo's close friend) and Genji (Another of Kinzo's old friends/butler) wouldn't agree to keep this a secret.
Inverted. For me, it's Kanon who won't keep quiet. I don't know 'bout Shannon, I think she might have abandoned this desire (Oh desire.) when she fell in love with George. That's one of the reasons I think Kanon keeps his 'I'm furniture so go away Milady and stop groping me' rant. Minus the groping, that never happened.

On the other hand, Genji would never do such a thing. He always serves his master no matter how stupid what he wants is, he even says that furniture should not live if they do not serve their master. (Die, Shannon and Kanon! XD It's an inside joke.)
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Old 2010-07-09, 04:44   Link #13513
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The game will end at a Episode 8 Right ??

Also new characters?? Sorry really I've nver been hre before nor played the game once
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Old 2010-07-09, 04:48   Link #13514
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Originally Posted by alviam099 View Post
The game will end at a Episode 8 Right ??

Also new characters?? Sorry really I've nver been hre before nor played the game once
I never played the game either. The game might end at EP8, but we don't know. But most likely yes.

There are new people in Umineko in every EP, had you not noticed?
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Old 2010-07-09, 09:13   Link #13515
Smeckledorf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
It doesn't even really matter. All the red says is that if you saw their corpses you can confirm they are dead. That doesn't necessitate by itself that they're dead right now even if you think the text implies that. Erika never saw them and we have no reliable narration saying anyone else did. Furthermore if we are to beleive what the ???? says they pretty much have to be faking because they were never moved. Otherwise they died in completely different rooms from the guestroom Battler was in. This is pretty much the way we have to treat that red if the first twilights are initially faked, which is probably Virgilia's hint anyway.
That red phrase had a great amount of trickery in it. Here is what I am certain it means. If you asked anyone who looked at the corpses, they would all 'confirm' that George, Maria, Rosa, George, Jessica and Genji were dead. Whether that is actually true is not guaranteed by that red truth.
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Old 2010-07-09, 09:33   Link #13516
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@almaz

A: false.
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Old 2010-07-09, 10:06   Link #13517
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Alternately, she's saying it for the sake of the player, who may or may not be Battler.

The identity of the person hugging his knees in the first two Hidden Tea Parties is still unknown, remember.
I think it was another case of 4th wall break. Some red texts seem to exist only for the sake of the players (us) and don't really make sense for the characters.
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Old 2010-07-09, 10:30   Link #13518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
That red phrase had a great amount of trickery in it. Here is what I am certain it means. If you asked anyone who looked at the corpses, they would all 'confirm' that George, Maria, Rosa, George, Jessica and Genji were dead. Whether that is actually true is not guaranteed by that red truth.
Gold=Red. It's a simple process if you read carefully.

For example, Beato wants Battler to say something in gold. She asks him to repeat after her in Gold text. He says it.

Beato: Repeat this. '(Example) Die the death.' (LOL)

Battler: Die the death.

Easy. That's how I see gold text. It's so Battler doesn't think Beato is lying.
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Old 2010-07-09, 10:58   Link #13519
Marion
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Gold text is not red text. If it was there would be no point in it even existing. Gold text is a text that can be either greater or lesser than red, given certain circumstances.
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Old 2010-07-09, 11:05   Link #13520
Almazluverdis3
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Gold text is not red text. If it was there would be no point in it even existing. Gold text is a text that can be either greater or lesser than red, given certain circumstances.
I know.I'm just saying it's sorta the same idea. The truth is, I needed to make some theory that actually makes sense to my simple fried brain. Anyway, moving on, who thinks Shannon is more evil then we think she is?
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