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Old 2010-07-21, 04:19   Link #14381
Judoh
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Jessica's asthma is bad enough that I actually suggested pepper spray to make her choke as a murder method in episode 2. That and it's easier to imagine that Shannon would chose a method like that instead of well...stabbing her in the back.
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Old 2010-07-21, 04:21   Link #14382
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Jessica's asthma is bad enough that I actually suggested pepper spray to make her choke as a murder method in episode 2. That and it's easier to imagine that Shannon would chose a method like that instead of well...stabbing her in the back.
That would be a very... torturous way to do it, don't you think?
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Old 2010-07-21, 04:24   Link #14383
Judoh
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That would be a very... torturous way to do it, don't you think?
It wouldn't be any more torturous than choking on your own blood from a stab to the lungs. It's just easier for me to imagine she'd use a method like that instead of actually physically attacking her best friend.

Last edited by Judoh; 2010-07-21 at 04:34.
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Old 2010-07-21, 04:33   Link #14384
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
I'm pretty sure Both Battler and Erika had to look at an atlas to confirm their theories. Since they bump into each other when one of them is looking at one.
I have realized that "the two" was not the II on the clock but the 2 hands, that to Burkie. It shall point to a direction and the distance between "a point" and where sleeps the key shall be 500m, or 416m...well a 里.
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Old 2010-07-21, 08:12   Link #14385
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Why "downstream" should mean the past?
Downstream is the natural flow of a river, so it should rather symbolize the natural flow of time, not the reverse.

Anyway where does this reasoning bring us? It seems a dead end to me.

what would the key be, and how would you use it proceed further?
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Old 2010-07-21, 08:30   Link #14386
Renall
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The "why were they all girls" line would perhaps be a hint, if Rudolf weren't reacting the way he was. Rudolf wouldn't be wailing about Battler if it weren't his own son, even if he knows who the "Other Battler" is. So it's probably not a translation error so much as an ambiguous line, and Hideyoshi meant "why were all of them [except Battler] women?"

That said, nothing is ever specifically said of Jessica in red in ep6, I believe.
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Old 2010-07-21, 08:45   Link #14387
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So it's probably not a translation error so much as an ambiguous line, and Hideyoshi meant "why were all of them [except Battler] women?"
I agree with this part. I see little reasons to see this as a hint of any sort.
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Old 2010-07-21, 08:55   Link #14388
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Yeah... although it is odd that Battler doesn't fit the "theme" (the FTs in episodes 2 and 3 are also themed in a similar way). I mean, they could've gone for Kumasawa or Shannon and made it an all-female first twilight...
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Old 2010-07-21, 09:21   Link #14389
ErenselTheJester
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Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Yeah... although it is odd that Battler doesn't fit the "theme" (the FTs in episodes 2 and 3 are also themed in a similar way). I mean, they could've gone for Kumasawa or Shannon and made it an all-female first twilight...
Wasn't it supposed to be a prank that Battler started? I think that was what Beatrice thought when the women were murdered.
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Old 2010-07-21, 09:23   Link #14390
Jan-Poo
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Now that I think about it, similar things happened before:

Eva in EP2

"I am proud of you, my only son. I want to make you grow so that you will never be embarrassed no matter where you go. ...And you are the only grandson to carry Father's blood."

Jessica also in EP2

"Even though we've finally gathered all the cousins together after six years."


It seems that Ryukishi has a habit of making the characters make imprecise affirmations.
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Old 2010-07-21, 09:39   Link #14391
Oliver
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Now that I think about it, similar things happened before:

Eva in EP2

"I am proud of you, my only son. I want to make you grow so that you will never be embarrassed no matter where you go. ...And you are the only grandson to carry Father's blood."
About that. At this moment, Eva is actually being explicitly precise.

Because this scene is dated during Battler's absence, and as Battler is not in the Ushiromiya family register, George is literally "the only grandson" of Kinzo -- Jessica, Maria and Ange are granddaughters. A few paragraphs later, Eva corrects herself anyway: "George is the eldest grandson carrying Father's blood."
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Old 2010-07-21, 10:29   Link #14392
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Jessica also in EP2

"Even though we've finally gathered all the cousins together after six years."


It seems that Ryukishi has a habit of making the characters make imprecise affirmations.
Nah, it's just part of the Ushiromiya Family Facts:
  • They have a pathological fear of looking inside closets.
  • They are willing to believe Kinzo is capable of doing absolutely anything.
  • They immediately respect all conventions of detective stories.
  • Everybody hates Ange.
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Old 2010-07-21, 10:36   Link #14393
Matrim
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Now, I personally believe that Shannon is the killer, but she had to have a way to get out of the Garden Shed, which was locked from the outside.
Isn't it possible that Shannon (or whoever faked their death) just broke through the door? The shed is full of various tools, after all, I doubt the door would be that impenetrable and I don't recall anyone checking on the shed later on to see if the door was still intact.
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Old 2010-07-21, 14:15   Link #14394
ErenselTheJester
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You know, now that I look back at Episode 1, Krauss seems suspicious. Why would he change the night shifts for the servants? Its explained that he wants the emblem- marked servants out the mansion because he was suspicious of them, but now that I think about it, its just too perfect. Out of the emblem- marked servants, only Shannon was attacked and she was killed with half of her face beaten to unrecognition. That, along with the fact that Krauss' death was in the same manner. If anything, it seems that Krauss plotted something with the emblem servants being major players.
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Old 2010-07-21, 14:48   Link #14395
Raiza Sunozaki
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Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester View Post
You know, now that I look back at Episode 1, Krauss seems suspicious. Why would he change the night shifts for the servants? Its explained that he wants the emblem- marked servants out the mansion because he was suspicious of them, but now that I think about it, its just too perfect. Out of the emblem- marked servants, only Shannon was attacked and she was killed with half of her face beaten to unrecognition. That, along with the fact that Krauss' death was in the same manner. If anything, it seems that Krauss plotted something with the emblem servants being major players.
Not to mention, I'd think he'd want to keep close tabs on them. Aside from Kumasawa, who seems to receive the respect of a Winged Servant anyway, the only servants who seem to know of Kinzo's death are Winged ones. If keeping Kinzo's existence under wraps is so important, wouldn't he want to make sure anyone who knows of the truth is not in a situation to leak the information? In this case, moving them around does seem like he's planing something.
However, I'm still of the opinion that Krauss is incapable of being the mastermind. He's far too much an incompetent idiot to plan out something as complicated as that.
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Old 2010-07-21, 14:58   Link #14396
Raiza Sunozaki
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Re-reading Episode 6, I think I might've hit upon something regarding Battler's sin. I was reading the duel scene between Shannon and Kanon, where Beato's complaining to Zepar and Furfur about the unfairness of the trial, when one of their lines caught me:
Quote:
""That is the purpose of our trial...!! It is to let the sinful souls regain a complete soul and become capable of true love!!""
Here in Episode 6, it seems like Ryuukishi's trying to stress over and over again that a love between humans and furniture is wrong, a sin even. I know Episode 5's Ura-Tea Party stresses that the sin is more of a broken promise than anything (not to mention Beato's dislike of promise breaking), but this also felt very important, especially since the two of them were talking to Moetrice.
So what if Battler's sin wasn't actually something like promising to rescue someone on a white pony? What if it was falling into a mutual love with one a piece of furniture? If we're to assume no other furniture servants who might've been on the island six years ago are important, then the only one who fits this place would be Shannon.
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Old 2010-07-21, 15:03   Link #14397
Titanguy654
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Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
Not to mention, I'd think he'd want to keep close tabs on them. Aside from Kumasawa, who seems to receive the respect of a Winged Servant anyway, the only servants who seem to know of Kinzo's death are Winged ones. If keeping Kinzo's existence under wraps is so important, wouldn't he want to make sure anyone who knows of the truth is not in a situation to leak the information? In this case, moving them around does seem like he's planing something.
However, I'm still of the opinion that Krauss is incapable of being the mastermind. He's far too much an incompetent idiot to plan out something as complicated as that.
Well Episode 5 confirms that Krauss is not the culprit, so him being the mastermind is already out of the question. He is, however, foolish enough to unknowingly go along with the culprit's plans.
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Old 2010-07-21, 15:06   Link #14398
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The culprit suggests to Krauss that they start up an exciting new business creating fake murder mystery puzzles. He goes along with it, and unfortunately...
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Old 2010-07-21, 15:07   Link #14399
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki View Post
Here in Episode 6, it seems like Ryuukishi's trying to stress over and over again that a love between humans and furniture is wrong, a sin even. I know Episode 5's Ura-Tea Party stresses that the sin is more of a broken promise than anything *snip*
Shannon and Kanon stress that it's a sin in episode 2 I think too. As for the tea party all we know from that is Beato thinks he's a liar. That suggests it's a promise, but not as much as episode 6's Beatrice dialogue does.

If this leads you anywhere go with it, it might lead to something better than pony theory. Which is pretty much dead at this point.
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Old 2010-07-21, 15:50   Link #14400
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Again though: Furniture isn't furniture in the immediate sense; that is, even if you believe "furniture" to represent something else (a character, a separate personality, a particular worldview), anyone Battler would have sinned against is still a human being. I see nothing especially sinful in Battler's flashbacks or even in those of Beatrice's creator. Regretful, yes. Remembering sadly but fondly, yes. But neither of them thinks it's wrong.

I suppose you can turn the "not between Battler and Beatrice" on its ear and suggest that the person sinned against was a witness to the "sinful" relationship. Problem is the best setups for that don't work very well; even if Kanon is real, he wasn't around six years ago, so he's not the one feeling indignant and wronged over furniture-love. And I don't think it works for Kinzo because, ultimately, Kinzo is the one who treats furniture most normally, if we buy his interactions with Kanon, Genji, and 1967-Beatrice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
The culprit suggests to Krauss that they start up an exciting new business creating fake murder mystery puzzles. He goes along with it, and unfortunately...
I wouldn't put it past... Krauss.
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I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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