AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-07-30, 23:23   Link #14921
Judoh
Mystery buff
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
That's interesting. It'd be nice to note down when he's most nervous about the diagnosis he's announcing.
Funny thing is that Kyrie, Hideyoshi and Rudolf's deaths in episode 3 are some of the only deaths he really seems to be confident in.
Judoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-30, 23:32   Link #14922
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
As for motives for George, I think coming up with some are rather easy. For example, he may want the money to start his own business, and make it a big thing.
If that was his plan he would have come up with something better. For instance he could have just made himself unavailable for the family meeting and Shannon as well. Then everyone would just die in an explosion and he'd get practically all the money.

Either way if he didn't know of the explosion then mass murdering everyone and make himself and Shannon the only survivors would have been one of the worst conceived murder plan.

It goes without saying that if you want to get the money of your parents ahead of time, you can't pretend you died yourself, because in that case you'd get nothing.


There is then the fact that Shannon most probably knows where the gold is. She just needed to tell George where the gold is located then he'd pretend he solved the riddle, and he would have become the new family head. At that point he'd have the power to command her mother using is higher rank (that would be karma, considering that's what Eva did on Natsuhi).


Additionally the amount of money in the bank accounts is a lot more than the three siblings tried to extort from their big brother, that was more than enough for George to start his own empire.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-30, 23:48   Link #14923
LyricalAura
Dea ex Kakera
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
As for motives for George, I think coming up with some are rather easy. For example, he may want the money to start his own business, and make it a big thing. He's always said he wants to do something like that. He also seems to be a person with many complexes. So, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually hates his immediate family, due to all the pressure they put on him. I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't give a fuck about the rest of the Ushiromiyas.

As for Shannon, he may love her, but if Shannontrice is true, and if he somehow managed to find out about her feelings for Battler, then I wouldn't be surprised if he also wanted to off Shannon out of scorn.
If money is on the table as a motive, why not go for maximum sociopathy? Maybe he found out a while back that Shannon solved the epitaph, and now he's stringing her along so she'll show him where the gold is. She's a young girl in love, and we almost always see the relationship through her rose-colored glasses.

Which would explain how Battler's sin caused the murders, actually. If he'd stayed around and hooked up with Shannon, she never would have fallen in love with George.
__________________
"Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."
LyricalAura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-30, 23:57   Link #14924
UsagiTenpura
Echo of Noise
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
Send a message via Skype™ to UsagiTenpura
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Funny thing is that Kyrie, Hideyoshi and Rudolf's deaths in episode 3 are some of the only deaths he really seems to be confident in.
I'm seriously going to have to replay arc 3, it seems it's main theme in a way is fake death + fake culprit.
UsagiTenpura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 01:01   Link #14925
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Either way if he didn't know of the explosion then mass murdering everyone and make himself and Shannon the only survivors would have been one of the worst conceived murder plan.
Not necessarily so. Remember Eva survived, and even if her life was pretty much shit, she still lived freely, so to speak. Since the whole thing was made look as an accident, they could have got away with it.

The problem is, he seems to have been betrayed.

Either way, I think this can somehow work.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 01:05   Link #14926
Renall
BUY MY BOOK!!!
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Bring in Battler now. He wasn't supposed to come back. Maybe he's the one who messed up the plan?
__________________
Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
Renall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 01:09   Link #14927
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Well, of course, if we go by the Shannon is really unstable theory, by the time Battler returned, she decided not to follow George's plan anymore, and decided to see if Battler remembered his promise. If you go through the DID theory, then the Beatrice personality took over, and well, the same thing happened.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 01:49   Link #14928
Judoh
Mystery buff
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.kun View Post
I'm not sure, but this is what I make out from the screenshots. From left to right

Spoiler for EP7 BC:
Can someone translate this please?
Judoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 07:04   Link #14929
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
Not necessarily so. Remember Eva survived, and even if her life was pretty much shit, she still lived freely, so to speak. Since the whole thing was made look as an accident, they could have got away with it.

The problem is, he seems to have been betrayed.

Either way, I think this can somehow work.
That's because of the explosion. If it wasn't for that Eva would have never got away with it. I said it quite clearly:

If George knew about the explosion then he would just let it do its job. Or at least that's what an intelligent person would do.

If he didn't know about it, then that means he planned to perform a mass murder that could never be covered up completely.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 07:51   Link #14930
Oliver
Back off, I'm a scientist
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
If he didn't know about it, then that means he planned to perform a mass murder that could never be covered up completely.
...unless he has an off-island alibi that he can make use of by arranging independent transport off the island secretly.
__________________
"The only principle that does not inhibit progress is: anything goes."
Paul K. Feyerabend, "Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge"

This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 07:57   Link #14931
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
If George knew about the explosion then he would just let it do its job. Or at least that's what an intelligent person would do.
Yes, if we follow the idea of George as a culprit, then I'd assume he knew about it. However, he was betrayed at some point, and that's why he dies.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 09:11   Link #14932
ErenselTheJester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Can someone translate this please?
1 "* Ku island ... to ... me!" "To flee ... ... ... ... ...

2 for" camphor giggled .... ... Gurakasunoha criminal matter, I

3 "... Battler incompetent, it pulled

04 times frustrated me, "our. I * woman Customer and Beatrice in mind we thought. Mashita Soshi ○ ○ humans. Now we should talk knows whether or when the

05 "** that is. ... Both go through the decades since then. ... There is no **** that."

I'll try to make sense of it later, I'm not exactly good with Japanese though.
ErenselTheJester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 09:12   Link #14933
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Can someone translate this please?
i think the screenshot block prevents that well enough note how most of the text is cut in half.

the third one starts with "Battler is incompetent, " and that's the best i can understand. but i'm totally incompetent too so yeah.


Quote:
2 for" camphor giggled .... ... Gurakasunoha criminal matter, I
that camphor stuff is "giggle giggle"

IMO it would be something like this:
"giggle giggle *block*
*something* doesn't matter *block*
culprit *block*"

looks like you just pasted it from google translate eh




Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
...unless he has an off-island alibi that he can make use of by arranging independent transport off the island secretly.
sounds waaay too risky to me.

Last edited by desirebluesky; 2010-07-31 at 09:28. Reason: checked how WH tranlates the lauging sounds
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 09:46   Link #14934
Misuzu
Dribble.....SHOOTOH!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
...unless he has an off-island alibi that he can make use of by arranging independent transport off the island secretly.
George was seen at the airport with the rest of the family, so there'd be evidence that he did go to the island.

I could see a combination of something planned and an accident being the truth. For a little while, I was playing around with a theory where all the bodies were moved into the mansion, and the mansion was set on fire by the culprit(s). The plan would've been for them to make the fire look like an accident and as though they were the only one(s) able to escape, but the fire triggered something else that caused a massive explosion. I was mostly working off the idea of explosives around the foundation when I came up with this.

Unfortunately, this line of thinking doesn't work on some of the boards at all, especially 4, so it's probably not a train of thought worth pursuing further.
Misuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 09:51   Link #14935
Matrim
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I am very suspicious of George. For some reason I also have a feeling that his romance with Shannon is a sham.
__________________
'The world we live in is always in darkness.'
'Yes, and that is why we seek light.'

Matrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 10:04   Link #14936
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
another point to consider:

the thing that makes most sense to me is that the explosion is set to happen after everyone leaves the island, but the typhoon prevents them from leaving before it happens.
so, let's assume the Midnight Bomber didn't plan on escaping/hiding when the timer sets off. wouldn't he just stop the bomb/whatever when he learns about the typhoon? if he doesn't do that, assuming he's one of the 18, wouldn't he/she be one of the guys that always die early? who the hell? Rudolf?
(now that i think of it, Kinzo always dies the earliest XD)


(sorry if it was discussed here before, i'm totally out of the loop when it comes to your theories guys)
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 10:18   Link #14937
ErenselTheJester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desirebluesky View Post
i think the screenshot block prevents that well enough note how most of the text is cut in half.

the third one starts with "Battler is incompetent, " and that's the best i can understand. but i'm totally incompetent too so yeah.


that camphor stuff is "giggle giggle"

IMO it would be something like this:
"giggle giggle *block*
*something* doesn't matter *block*
culprit *block*"

looks like you just pasted it from google translate eh




sounds waaay too risky to me.
Actually it was Dictionary.com. Like I said, I was going to make sense of it later, but thanks. If I'm sure, the fourth line would say: "We thought the female customer was Beatrice", or something like that. I'm not exactly sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrim View Post
I am very suspicious of George. For some reason I also have a feeling that his romance with Shannon is a sham.
He was actually in love with Battler, and created Beatrice in hopes to reflect that love.
ErenselTheJester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 10:27   Link #14938
desirebluesky
* ahaha.wav *
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: カケラの海
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to desirebluesky
...i wouldn't put it past George.
desirebluesky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 11:25   Link #14939
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
However apparently it wasn't so unexpected that the typhoon would keep them on the island one day more than necessary. George thought there was a fairly high chance that would happen.

The culprit must be quite careless if the explosion wasn't supposed to kill everyone. But then again Krauss and his family plus the servants would still be there.
__________________

Jan-Poo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-07-31, 13:00   Link #14940
UsagiTenpura
Echo of Noise
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
Send a message via Skype™ to UsagiTenpura
Even if there was no typhoon, arc 4 showed us that it wouldn't be a problem doesn't it?
Basically the second day is optional from Beato's pov.

To me it feels more likely then not right now that multiple opportunistic killers end up turning a bad joke into a tragedy based on that rule that counts on people using their imagination to link together things that aren't linked. Obvious example would be how in arc 1 Battler is trying to connect Kinzo's dissapearance and later "death" to the current murders, while we know by now these might be linked events, but not the result of a single will/plan.
UsagiTenpura is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.