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Old 2010-08-11, 20:16   Link #15821
Renall
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With the somewhat problematic issue that in addition to the reader, the disguise would still have to work on Battler, who has no reason whatsoever to be "used" to Kanon since he's never seen him before.
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Old 2010-08-11, 20:20   Link #15822
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With the somewhat problematic issue that in addition to the reader, the disguise would still have to work on Battler, who has no reason whatsoever to be "used" to Kanon since he's never seen him before.
True, but maybe the disguise wasn't made to fool Battler.
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Old 2010-08-11, 20:35   Link #15823
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No, but Battler ought to be the first person to find a discrepancy of some sort.
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Old 2010-08-11, 20:36   Link #15824
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Wait,so how is that exactly an issue?

If Battler doesn't know about Kannon,seeing him act weird wont bring any suspicious on him.
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Old 2010-08-11, 20:39   Link #15825
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
With the somewhat problematic issue that in addition to the reader, the disguise would still have to work on Battler, who has no reason whatsoever to be "used" to Kanon since he's never seen him before.
I don't think so, actually. While Battler may not be used to seeing them, he only catches quick glances of them in nearly all episodes. On the first day, he only sees Kanon twice, and the second time is when it's already dark outside. On the second day, one of the two is almost always dead close to the start, and that death is always confirmed by at least one person Battler thinks he can trust. I should add that since Battler doesn't want to suspect anyone of the murders, as evidenced by his defense of Kanon in EP2, it would be unlikely for him to support a theory of disguise, since, in his mind, it would seem to be directly linked to the murders.

What Battler sees is glimpses of two people who are dressed up very differently and who behave in very different ways. Even more importantly, every single person in the mansion treats them as different people, and it's very hard to accept something that seems ridiculous when all the people who should know much better seem sure of the contrary. Subconsciously, people tend to go with the flow without even realizing it.

On top of all that, George mentions that they're siblings, and though Shannon immediately says "well, we're not exactly siblings", it would be easy for that thought to get stuck in Battler's mind if he wasn't paying too much attention to it. He did have plenty of other things to occupy his attention, after all
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Old 2010-08-11, 20:56   Link #15826
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Then the question becomes what happens if he has any particular length of time with Kanon. In truth, he hasn't generally made it to the end with any regularity with anyone but Maria.
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Old 2010-08-11, 21:25   Link #15827
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Then the question becomes what happens if he has any particular length of time with Kanon. In truth, he hasn't generally made it to the end with any regularity with anyone but Maria.
Answer: Nothing. The real question would be how much time Erika needs. Multiply that number by infinity and you get the amount of time Battler would need. And it was said, "Battler is incompetent."
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Old 2010-08-11, 21:50   Link #15828
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Right now my main problem with Shkanon is actually evading red death. Especially in arc 3's case. A theory that involves arc 3 having a different culprit would satisfy me a lot more then deathproof Shkanon.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:01   Link #15829
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Honestly,using Shkannon to solve episode 3 is very shaky at best.

I mean,something OBVIOUSLY went VERY wrong in EP3,and saying that everything went normal and everything meta wise went wrong is just stupid.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:09   Link #15830
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Shkanon doesn't work in episode 3, unless you believe that all of the adults are completely lying about finding the corpses.

Kanon was found locked in the chapel. It would be impossible for Shannon to get up and go to the chapel and have it be locked because she wouldn't have the key. You can't lock doors without keys.

Episodes 2 and 3 hint the most strongly that it is possible to be dead, but not really dead. I would actually be amazingly surprised if it wasn't possible to be declared dead in red but still be alive.

Episode 3 is actually super hard to figure out why people are doing what they are doing. If anyone can come up with good motivations for the characters, I would like to hear it. I think it's clear that the adults all did something sketchy since they stayed up all night. And the magic scenes strongly suggest shannon, kanon, and possibly Genji are all fake dead.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:19   Link #15831
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I think we should try to solve EP3 before we tackle 5-6.That episode is the only one that has confused me,and EP5 seemed to go by so fast I do not remember much of it but the end.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:23   Link #15832
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I think we should try to solve EP3 before we tackle 5-6.That episode is the only one that has confused me,and EP5 seemed to go by so fast I do not remember much of it but the end.
Battler's theory is mostly used here. Most of those people weren't declared dead until EVA progressed the game to where they discovered Nanjo was dead and Jessica was missing.

The people who had already been declared dead at the time were the first and second twilights.

So someone who wasn't declared dead before that faked, killed Nanjo and died for some reason later. We even have a reason to kill the doctor if you've read and then there were none.

As for the second twilight the most common culprits used here are Eva, and ironically Rudolf.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:30   Link #15833
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Battler's theory is mostly used here. Most of those people weren't declared dead until EVA progressed the game to where they discovered Nanjo was dead and Jessica was missing.

The people who had already been declared dead at the time were the first and second twilights.

So someone who wasn't declared dead before that faked, killed Nanjo and died for some reason later.
Ehhh...

I don't think that theory would work if that's the result,and there are no clues for anyone suddenly dying unless the dead goldsmith was really alive and killing everyone and dies of his problems. :<
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:31   Link #15834
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While that satisfies the "A human did it", I don't really call that a solution. There's also no good reason for the person who killed Nanjo to suddenly die.

I think we should think more about why the 5 people who are in the first twilight are in the first twilight, and why the adults do what they did.

The best I can come up with is that the adults questioned Kumasawa/Gohda and got some information out of them, and then the other 3 servants killed them and faked their own deaths, with Nanjo's help.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:35   Link #15835
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Ehhh...

I don't think that theory would work if that's the result,and there are no clues for anyone suddenly dying unless the dead goldsmith was really alive and killing everyone and dies of his problems. :<
There don't need to be. Whoever it was declared dead so they have to be dead just after Nanjo died.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:37   Link #15836
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You can't say they're dead just because the red said so. You have to come up with a valid reason.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:37   Link #15837
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But..but my favorite knox..!

Knox's 8th

It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:40   Link #15838
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The red truth is simply truth, and there is no need to provide evidence, proof, or room for a counter-argument!!

You think we haven't discussed this already? The most likely people used here are Kyrie and Hideyoshi who would have already been wounded at the time. For them dying just after isn't strange at all.

For any other person if Eva killed this culprit after he entered the room they were in while the game was progressing Battler has a realistic reason to call Eva the culprit at the end. Solving two problems instead of one.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:49   Link #15839
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You do not need to provide them but the clues still need to be shown in the game.

I made that myself,since Battler hasn't seem to have said it.

What it means is that during a discussion,the red truth does not need to provide evidence,but they still need to be shown in the game.

I didn't see any evidence that one of them could randomly die.
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Old 2010-08-11, 22:51   Link #15840
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Nobody is denying the red truth. We're saying there should be a reason for it. There is a reason it is the truth, and that is the important part.

Kyrie and Hideyoshi get up after being shot and inspected by Battler? And then they stumble upon Nanjo and kill him? I find that one pretty hard to believe.

I don't remember exactly how the end of episode 3 goes down. I should go look at the scene just before she kills him. Was it a very abrupt cut to her saying she was the culprit and shooting him?
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