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Old 2010-10-12, 13:10   Link #18061
TehChron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
That really bothers me, yeah. If he's gonna do it, it has to be the only way he could have done it. If he's going for an ambitious, sweeping end, then by all means. But if it aspires to that, it's gotta live up to it, or else there doesn't seem to be a particularly good reason to do it.
Yeah, you seem to have misread what I was saying.

That was in regards to the character we're playing being the culprit. It would limit the overall experience and possibilities. For example, if we play as the culprit, we'd never really get to see just what difference Battler's Sin makes, it would wind up just being a reaction to it.

And even if the culprit were there to see it, it would just be as a stand-in, and wouldn't flow naturally. Youd think such an event would be a private moment between Battler and Yasu/Shannon.
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Old 2010-10-12, 14:31   Link #18062
Renall
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Originally Posted by TehChron View Post
Yeah, you seem to have misread what I was saying.
I understand exactly what you're saying, I chose to generalize it to any "gimmick" perspective or other implementation of a choice feature. Any such execution runs the risk of looking gimmicky, so if he wants to make it work, he's aspiring to a very high standard.
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Old 2010-10-12, 14:32   Link #18063
TehChron
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I understand exactly what you're saying, I chose to generalize it to any "gimmick" perspective or other implementation of a choice feature. Any such execution runs the risk of looking gimmicky, so if he wants to make it work, he's aspiring to a very high standard.
I see. But I think it's a safe bet to assume that Ryukishi really is trying to meet a certain high standard in this episode 8.
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Old 2010-10-12, 14:38   Link #18064
Will Wright
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Originally Posted by TehChron View Post
I see. But I think it's a safe bet to assume that Ryukishi really is trying to meet a certain high standard in this episode 8.
Well, all writers try to do that in the end of their series. Whether they achieve that standard or not though...That's what makes all the difference.
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Old 2010-10-12, 14:46   Link #18065
musouka
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The reactions everyone is having to the idea of there being choices is really interesting (and bewildering) to me. I also tend to prefer kinetic novels, but I think the idea of having choices for the final Umineko makes a ton of sense and I'm really excited.

To me, that means the last game is going to be more of a prism. Rather than choosing your own end, I think the point is that finally the game is going to be "fully three dimensional" (remember how Ryukishi described Beato in those terms in an earlier interview?)

Umineko has been defined as having to see more than one side in order to grasp a concept. So I think what's he's going for is that you have to see all the sides he presents in order to grasp the entire picture. It's not a "pick the answer you like best", it's "you can decide how much of something you're willing to explore, and how far you're willing to go." Furthermore, it will be decided by your own actions. It's a way of turning the mirror back on the readers. Me, deep down, I want a happy ending, but I'm also not sure a happy ending is what the story can really have. What choices will I make? Can I stay firm, or will I go for broke?

Umineko isn't a ren'ai game. There are plenty of ways that branches and choices can be put in to enhance the overall experience of uncovering the final things we all want to know.
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Old 2010-10-12, 15:01   Link #18066
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Originally Posted by Will Wright View Post
Well, all writers try to do that in the end of their series. Whether they achieve that standard or not though...That's what makes all the difference.
Do we believe that he can? He has sort of done so before. Not necessarily in quite the way we're thinking though.

Granted, we don't actually know if we're even thinking about the implementation the way he is. Given the context of the remark, it's possible what he said is incomplete or accidentally misleading. I'd certainly like him to blog a bit more about it, at least.
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Old 2010-10-12, 16:22   Link #18067
Uberzaki
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Trial of the golden witch?
hmmm...
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Old 2010-10-12, 16:24   Link #18068
Mikachiru
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Originally Posted by Uberzaki View Post
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Trial of the golden witch?
hmmm...
Moar like Verdict of the Golden Witch, amirite? Sounds better for the last chapter of the story, anyway.
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Old 2010-10-12, 17:01   Link #18069
Will Wright
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Do we believe that he can? He has sort of done so before. Not necessarily in quite the way we're thinking though.

Granted, we don't actually know if we're even thinking about the implementation the way he is. Given the context of the remark, it's possible what he said is incomplete or accidentally misleading. I'd certainly like him to blog a bit more about it, at least.
I don't think anything. I'm just gonna wait and see.

Also, I kinda want episode 8 to end like this:

Beatrice:"PROVE I'M NOT A WITCH. YOU CAN'T, CAN YOU? DEVIL'S PROOOOOF"
Batter:"...Fine! I'LL PROVE IT!"
Beatrice:"What? HOW?"
[Gets a duck]
Battler:"If you weight differently from a duck...THEN YOU ARE NOT A WITCH!"
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Old 2010-10-12, 17:03   Link #18070
Leafsnail
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Exoneration of the Golden Witch?
Truth of the Golden Witch?
Heart of the Golden Witch?
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Old 2010-10-12, 17:30   Link #18071
Judoh
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
I vote for 'Hunt of the golden Witch'.
Hey, a man can dream, can't he?
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
If I wanted it to be a title to end it all I'd go with 'Memoirs of the Golden Witch'. Just because.
I still stand by these titles.
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Old 2010-10-12, 17:40   Link #18072
LyricalAura
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I'll vote for one of:

Legacy of the Golden Witch
Revelation of the Golden Witch
Resurrection of the Golden Witch
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Old 2010-10-12, 18:04   Link #18073
Marion
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Umineko might go into a choice base system? If that actually does happen I really hope there's a Tiger Dojo-esque corner for omakes.

The different perspective thing doesn't really strike me as surprising. There have been plenty of scenes given through different perspectives, when Battler wasn't around.
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Old 2010-10-12, 18:21   Link #18074
~Ayane~
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i love how the reactions are "choices? what fu*king choices? nonononono, son im dissapoint.... No, wait! even if there are choices there is only ONE truth and all other possible endings will be fakes! yes thats right and if its not Ryukishii is a failure of a writer!!!!111111elevenone"
anyway, i would want Ryukishi to elaborate more on this...
i dont want to get myself excited over that idea yet though, but i must admit, in opposition to those few people that fear their precious theories may end up not being the only valid ones, i feel that its extremely awesome concept.
but i just have one question, what about possible adaptations of Ep8 then...

also

Quote:
Resurrection of the Golden Witch
oh god yes!
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Old 2010-10-12, 18:47   Link #18075
navitaro
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Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
Exoneration of the Golden Witch?
Truth of the Golden Witch?
Heart of the Golden Witch?
I had alredy think too in Truth of the Golden Witch.

Truth of the Golden Witch: 2 votes (but who counts them).
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Old 2010-10-12, 19:53   Link #18076
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Ayane~ View Post
i love how the reactions are "choices? what fu*king choices? nonononono, son im dissapoint.... No, wait! even if there are choices there is only ONE truth and all other possible endings will be fakes! yes thats right and if its not Ryukishii is a failure of a writer!!!!111111elevenone"
anyway, i would want Ryukishi to elaborate more on this...
i dont want to get myself excited over that idea yet though, but i must admit, in opposition to those few people that fear their precious theories may end up not being the only valid ones, i feel that its extremely awesome concept.
but i just have one question, what about possible adaptations of Ep8 then...
That's because Umineko is a game before being a story. Ryuukishi never failed to remind it in his interviews. If it was a story that could pass, but that's not forgivable in a game.

When people play a certain game for several years and the creator suddenly changes the rule of the game people start raging. If you don't believe it, just check what happened with "Star Wars Galaxies".
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Old 2010-10-12, 20:32   Link #18077
Judoh
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
When people play a certain game for several years and the creator suddenly changes the rule of the game people start raging. If you don't believe it, just check what happened with "Star Wars Galaxies".
Your right, but it's not just with Umineko or Starwars or even just games. Almost every fanbase with a huge following has people like that. I'll give Dragonball Z as an example. In the original manga there was lots of Foreshadowing that once somone would turn into a super Saiyan that person would die after it happened. So Akira Toriyama had planned to kill Goku off for a long time. But the fans kept screaming to bring him back and he was like "What? Do you want to see more Super Saiyan forms or something?" "Yeah that would be cool". "DAMMIT!" So he brought Goku back...

That's probably a significant reason for why Akira Toriyama didn't work on GT. At that point he just got tired of working on it and his fans.

Or as a mystery example see how Conan Doyle had to revive Sherlock Holmes.

In short fans can be a lot of the reasons why things turn out bad, and I think that's mostly because most of them don't know what they really want. Or they want too much.

oh and watch this video for a laugh.
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Old 2010-10-12, 20:41   Link #18078
Kite22
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What? their was no foreshadowing that turning Super Saiyan would kill the person, I've got no idea where you got that from.
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Old 2010-10-12, 21:01   Link #18079
Judoh
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What? their was no foreshadowing that turning Super Saiyan would kill the person, I've got no idea where you got that from.
Well even if it's wrong that's not the point of what I was saying anyway. It's not about Dragonaball Z it's about the japanese fans of dragon ball Z and how they wanted to bring a character back and it affected the director's creativity and interest in his own show. It's an example.

But to answer your question I got that bit of trivia from a friend. You can question how reliable that information is , but he's reliable most of the time. And I did say the foreshadowing was in the manga I don't think it was adapted into the anime.
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Old 2010-10-12, 21:31   Link #18080
~Ayane~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
That's because Umineko is a game before being a story. Ryuukishi never failed to remind it in his interviews. If it was a story that could pass, but that's not forgivable in a game.

When people play a certain game for several years and the creator suddenly changes the rule of the game people start raging. If you don't believe it, just check what happened with "Star Wars Galaxies".
huuuuh...but you know...maybe it IS a game...but its not like the rules of this game were ever truly stated right?
anyway. i dont know what happened with Star Wars Galaxies. What happened?
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