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Old 2010-10-13, 20:24   Link #18101
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Wright View Post
->Throw turkey up in the air
->Punch George's chin while he gets distracted by the turkey
->Step on his stomach
->Proclaim the stomach's independence from Japan and start a new game where Battler plays Lelouch.

Best route possible.
I'm sorry, but you missed:

-> Blow off the cousins to hang out with Gohda.
-> A mystery? Gohda can help!
-> I knew you were the culprit! Gohda's incompetence made everything clear somehow!
-> Have Gohda punch the culprit until they give up.
-> Fist bump.

Ultimate Battler/Gohda Bromance End is clearly the intended canon resolution.
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Old 2010-10-13, 20:44   Link #18102
~Ayane~
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Quote:
->Proclaim the stomach's independence from Japan and start a new game where Battler plays Lelouch.
omg, just what the hell are you smoking bro?


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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Ultimate Battler/Gohda Bromance End is clearly the intended canon resolution.
hmmm...not sure if want
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Old 2010-10-13, 20:45   Link #18103
Will Wright
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I'm sorry, but you missed:

-> Blow off the cousins to hang out with Gohda.
-> A mystery? Gohda can help!
-> I knew you were the culprit! Gohda's incompetence made everything clear somehow!
-> Have Gohda punch the culprit until they give up.
-> Fist bump.

Ultimate Battler/Gohda Bromance End is clearly the intended canon resolution.
I didn't miss them, I just thought those were so well foreshadowed by now that they were common knowledge.

Quote:
omg, just what the hell are you smoking bro?
Nothing. It's clearly foreshadowed in episode 7's third tea party.
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Old 2010-10-13, 20:56   Link #18104
TehChron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Wright View Post
->Throw turkey up in the air
->Punch George's chin while he gets distracted by the turkey
->Step on his stomach
->Proclaim the stomach's independence from Japan and start a new game where Battler plays Lelouch.

Best route possible.
And that's how R2 was really supposed to start until Sunrise realized it couldnt afford to have Ryukishi make it's in-house writing staff look even more incompetent than they usually do.

They almost made up for this sin in the finale, though:

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Although Zero does come to mind as the one existence capable of being Battler's love rival for Beato's affections. Damn the possibilities that will now only ever be related by shoddy fan fiction.

Quote:
Quote:
I'm sorry, but you missed:

-> Blow off the cousins to hang out with Gohda.
-> A mystery? Gohda can help!
-> I knew you were the culprit! Gohda's incompetence made everything clear somehow!
-> Have Gohda punch the culprit until they give up.
-> Fist bump.

Ultimate Battler/Gohda Bromance End is clearly the intended canon resolution.
I didn't miss them, I just thought those were so well foreshadowed by now that they were common knowledge.
Amen to that.
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Old 2010-10-14, 08:19   Link #18105
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Originally Posted by TehChron View Post

Although Zero does come to mind as the one existence capable of being Battler's love rival for Beato's affections. Damn the possibilities that will now only ever be related by shoddy fan fiction.

Amen to that.
Uhh

Spoiler for kanon:


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Old 2010-10-14, 08:44   Link #18106
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Originally Posted by TehChron View Post
Although Zero does come to mind as the one existence capable of being Battler's love rival for Beato's affections.
Well, there's the possibility Beato may be a man. So, that may work perfectly for Lelouch.
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Old 2010-10-14, 08:48   Link #18107
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Originally Posted by Will Wright View Post
It's an interesting point, it doesn't say that the story is over as much as it says that we have "all the clues" needed to solve it. Something like "the mystery is done. Solve it." which would make sense with everything he said so far.
The として means something like 'as' or 'in the role of', so yes it just says that EP8 will no longer present Umineko as a mystery.
Therefore I think the battle between Clair and Will in EP7 was something like a final resumé of all the crimes and clues we have so far. You already mentioned once that things like that were often done during the Golden Age and I can testify that it happens in modern Japanese detective fiction a lot too.
Just before the resolution chapter starts, either the I-narrator or (if there is none) the general narrator sums up all the mysteries that we came upon and formulates it as a challenge for the reader to try and solve them now, before the detective does.

I would find it pretty funny if the choice-system in EP8 (if there really is one and Ryûkishi wasn't just toying with us) was based on our understanding of Umineko and how we put together clues from the prior Episodes.
Like 1) Return to the guesthouse 2) Ask Rudolph again 3) Go hide and wait for something to happen ... well okay, just more elaborate of course.

And I'm still pretty psyched to learn who that とあるキャラクタ (certain character) is, from whose perspective we are going to make choices.
Will it be a detective or a murderer?
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Old 2010-10-14, 09:15   Link #18108
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Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
And I'm still pretty psyched to learn who that とあるキャラクタ (certain character) is, from whose perspective we are going to make choices.
Will it be a detective or a murderer?
The problem with とある is that, whilst you can literally translate it as "a certain," when it comes down to its use, it does not necessarily refers to some particular object, but simply to an object (not any in particular).
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Old 2010-10-14, 11:15   Link #18109
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Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
The problem with とある is that, whilst you can literally translate it as "a certain," when it comes down to its use, it does not necessarily refers to some particular object, but simply to an object (not any in particular).
Of course it does not necessarily have to be 'a certain character' we know, but especially in this context it does refer to a character with a certain trait.
If that will be the trait of being a certain character we know or some other is o course not certain, but とある does not denote something without particular traits.

Using that you always have a certain image in your mind like 'とある夏の夜'. Of course that can be translated as 'a summernight', but it refers to a particular summernight in the mind of the person uttering it.
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Old 2010-10-14, 14:35   Link #18110
Will Wright
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Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
The として means something like 'as' or 'in the role of', so yes it just says that EP8 will no longer present Umineko as a mystery.
Therefore I think the battle between Clair and Will in EP7 was something like a final resumé of all the crimes and clues we have so far. You already mentioned once that things like that were often done during the Golden Age and I can testify that it happens in modern Japanese detective fiction a lot too.
Just before the resolution chapter starts, either the I-narrator or (if there is none) the general narrator sums up all the mysteries that we came upon and formulates it as a challenge for the reader to try and solve them now, before the detective does.

I would find it pretty funny if the choice-system in EP8 (if there really is one and Ryûkishi wasn't just toying with us) was based on our understanding of Umineko and how we put together clues from the prior Episodes.
Like 1) Return to the guesthouse 2) Ask Rudolph again 3) Go hide and wait for something to happen ... well okay, just more elaborate of course.

And I'm still pretty psyched to learn who that とあるキャラクタ (certain character) is, from whose perspective we are going to make choices.
Will it be a detective or a murderer?
I am hoping the system will be like you described it, it sounds like the perfect final episode. I would hope that the character are using is the detective, but being the culprit would be interesting too.

Maybe even an Ackroydish ending where we think we are playing as the detective, but it turns out to be the culprit.

I don't know about the past mysteries though, I have a feeling that episode 7 is about as much of an answer as we are going to get for episodes 1-4. Well, the battle did still serve to remind us of the greater mystery though, so it definitely counts as a summation.

My biggest hope is that we get to find the culprit in a classical "detective points at the criminal" kind of way, but I am not expecting it will end that way.
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Old 2010-10-14, 17:41   Link #18111
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Originally Posted by Will Wright View Post
I am hoping the system will be like you described it, it sounds like the perfect final episode. I would hope that the character are using is the detective, but being the culprit would be interesting too.

Maybe even an Ackroydish ending where we think we are playing as the detective, but it turns out to be the culprit.

I don't know about the past mysteries though, I have a feeling that episode 7 is about as much of an answer as we are going to get for episodes 1-4. Well, the battle did still serve to remind us of the greater mystery though, so it definitely counts as a summation.

My biggest hope is that we get to find the culprit in a classical "detective points at the criminal" kind of way, but I am not expecting it will end that way.
It may very well might, as the final point at the end of the correct route in Episode 8.

That being said, the described system is more or less how I imagined it when it was first brought up, any other way would seem incredibly underwhelming.
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Old 2010-10-15, 04:00   Link #18112
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The Gohda/Batora was nice
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Old 2010-10-15, 08:11   Link #18113
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Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
Of course it does not necessarily have to be 'a certain character' we know, but especially in this context it does refer to a character with a certain trait.
If that will be the trait of being a certain character we know or some other is o course not certain, but とある does not denote something without particular traits.

Using that you always have a certain image in your mind like 'とある夏の夜'. Of course that can be translated as 'a summernight', but it refers to a particular summernight in the mind of the person uttering it.
Yes, it is used as you say, for example, let's say you tell someone there's a party tomorrow, and this person asks you how do you know, to which you can reply とある友人から聞いたんだ - I heard it from a friend. Of course, in this instance, you know who this friend is. Thus, this is one particular person - i.e. a certain friend.

However, depending on the context, とある can also be rather vague without it necessarily pointing out anything specific. This is the case for "とあるキャラクターになりきって、主観で選択肢を選ぶ". It can either mean:

1. You'll become a (certain) character (as in, R07 knows which character, but he won't tell you), and you'll make choices from his point of view.
2. You'll become a character (none in particular - it can be any of them), and you'll make choices from his point of view.

This is why I'm saying there's also the chance than in EP8 we will not play the role of one character alone, but maybe several of them. Thus, we can see the same situation from several perspectives. Of course, it is also possible we'll also play the game from the perspective of only one character. But, until we get more information, we cannot tell exactly whether we'll only play from the perspective of one particular character, or from the perspective of different characters (one at a time, of course).
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Old 2010-10-16, 00:20   Link #18114
alviam099
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This is why I'm saying there's also the chance than in EP8 we will not play the role of one character alone, but maybe several of them. Thus, we can see the same situation from several perspectives. Of course, it is also possible we'll also play the game from the perspective of only one character. But, until we get more information, we cannot tell exactly whether we'll only play from the perspective of one particular character, or from the perspective of different characters (one at a time, of course).
This is entirely possible considering R07's personality
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Old 2010-10-16, 00:33   Link #18115
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I wonder if we will even know for sure who we are playing as. I have a terrible feeling we will see things from character X's point of view and have no idea who X is.
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Old 2010-10-16, 00:36   Link #18116
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That would make things interesting.

Up to a point. But playing the entire episode in such a way would get old real fast, especially if presented, story-wise, as an "epilogue".
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Old 2010-10-16, 00:38   Link #18117
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I wonder if we will even know for sure who we are playing as. I have a terrible feeling we will see things from character X's point of view and have no idea who X is.
We technically already had that happen in EP 6, with the first scenes of the closed room. Only later did we find out that the person inside was Battler.
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Old 2010-10-16, 00:55   Link #18118
Will Wright
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We technically already had that happen in EP 6, with the first scenes of the closed room. Only later did we find out that the person inside was Battler.
That was just a stylish use of the device though, and didn't interfere with our deductions. But if it was used in episode 8, it would screw with the entire thing.
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Old 2010-10-16, 01:03   Link #18119
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That was just a stylish use of the device though, and didn't interfere with our deductions. But if it was used in episode 8, it would screw with the entire thing.
As far as screwing with the deductions, Ryukishi has already explained the majority of all the mysteries in EP 7. There's nothing to screw with anymore really.
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Old 2010-10-16, 01:15   Link #18120
Will Wright
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As far as screwing with the deductions, Ryukishi has already explained the majority of all the mysteries in EP 7. There's nothing to screw with anymore really.
Didn't we just address how it's possible that the 'conclusion of the mystery' simply meant that all clues were now presented?
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