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Old 2010-12-18, 17:51   Link #19901
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
You should say that to Studio Deen.
And Alchemist as well. In both, the anime and the PS3 game, he looks rather bland, whilst, truly, he's a well-rounded character.
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Old 2010-12-18, 18:01   Link #19902
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I never really liked Bernkastel, to be honest I've had nightmares about her, but now it's official...she belongs in hell.

Anyways, I have no idea what episode 8 will about. You guys have any ideas?
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Old 2010-12-18, 18:11   Link #19903
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Svelte George is regrettably now canon if we go by the PS3 version.
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This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2010-12-18, 18:19   Link #19904
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Anyways, I have no idea what episode 8 will about. You guys have any ideas?
George vs. Gohda cage match. Gohda's badass pose in the OP foreshadowed it.

I think it will probably be similar to episode 4 in that Ange will do some more investigation. There was that EP8 screenshot of the witch hunt guy after all. Maybe, Ange will get her final answers from a certain survivor... who knows right?
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Old 2010-12-18, 18:29   Link #19905
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It seems that "Ange finding the truth" will be at least a main part of EP8.

At any rate her story arc from 1998 needs a closure, Ryuukishi can't just abandon it like this.
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Old 2010-12-18, 18:46   Link #19906
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Like the others, I'm sure it will have more 1998. All episodes parallel prior episodes, so we can look to ep4 to see some vague idea of what ep8 might be like.

Of course comparing ep3 and ep7 is tricky, but the parallels are there.
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Old 2010-12-18, 19:18   Link #19907
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Well, everything in the story (well, most of it) needs closure. They may get Ange get to the bottom of it and then it goes all meta or something, personally I have no clue ._.
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Old 2010-12-18, 19:22   Link #19908
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By the way, from the "red guts" scene...
Spoiler for Gee, I don't remember THIS part from Kinzo's story...:
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Old 2010-12-18, 19:25   Link #19909
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Has anybody bothered analyzing the fight between Will and Claire? I understood many of his answers, but some seemed to go over my head.
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Old 2010-12-18, 20:02   Link #19910
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Somebody will do it eventually, but one thing's clear, I'll never trust the narration of something written by Ryukishi ever again, I should have learned this lesson in Higurashi.....

Last edited by Teapot; 2010-12-18 at 20:23.
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Old 2010-12-18, 20:36   Link #19911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
By the way, from the "red guts" scene...
Spoiler for Gee, I don't remember THIS part from Kinzo's story...:
Yeah... you didn't know it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanguy654 View Post
Has anybody bothered analyzing the fight between Will and Claire? I understood many of his answers, but some seemed to go over my head.
Oh I will do that! I wanted to do it anyway. Here we go:


EP1 1st twilight (the 6 corpses in the shed)
Illusions to illusions. ......The corpse that cannot return to earth returns to illusions

This is pretty straight forward in my opinion. The corpse that cannot return to earth is a fake corpse, therefore one of the six just faked his death. Since it's been speculated for a long while that Shannon wasn't actually there, and she's the only one that wasn't actually seen by Battler it seems logical that this is what Will is talking about.


EP1 2nd twilight (Eva and Hideyoshi in the guestroom)
Illusions to illusions. ......A chain of illusions can only hold back illusions.

This is also very simple. The chain wasn't set to begin with. This of course assumes that Kanon and Genji are lying, but well it seems that Will is implying that a whole lot of persons is lying later, so be prepared.


EP1 4th twilight (Kinzo in the boiler room)
Illusions to illusions. ......Let the man of illusions go to where he belongs.

This isn't so easy to understand, but it seems that Will is suggesting that the corpse they saw isn't even Kinzo's. At any rate there isn't really a mystery here, so I don't get what else there would be to solve.
Maybe this simply means that Kinzo's corpse was burned to hide the fact that he was dead since a long time. At any rate it isn't really that important imo.


EP1 5th twilight (Kanon in the boiler room)
Illusions to illusions. ......The witch and stake of illusions can pierce naught but illusions.

Another easy one. Kanon didn't die, or maybe he died but just as the illusion that he is. The stake wasn't actually plunged in his body. Of course this means that Nanjo and Jessica are lying.


EP1 6th 7th and 8th twilight (Nanjo, Kumasawa and Genji in the parlor with Maria singing.)
Illusions to illusions. ......Illusions are the blind girl's song. Illusion of a closed room.

This seems to suggest that Maria wasn't aware of what really happened. She was told to sing and to turn around so that she couldn't see or listen anything.
Since Illusions are mentioned so often it is probable that Genji and the rest didn't really die. This also explains how the closed room is an illusion.


EP1 9th twilight (Natsuhi and the witch)
Mysteriously left unaddressed.


EP2 1st twilight (The adults in the chapel)
Illusions to illusions. ......The gold truth locks the lock of illusions

Another self-explanatory one. It appears that a "gold truth" is a lie. Will uses it many other times in conjunction with "illusion". Basically, as many already imagined, the chapel wasn't locked to begin with. This assumes that Rosa was lying alongside the usual servant group.


EP2 2nd twilight (Jessica in her room, Kanon is missing)
Illusions to illusions. ......Illusions who have fulfilled their role do not leave a corpse

Again it's hard to see how Will isn't talking about Kanon here and again he refers to him calling him an illusion. This doesn't really address the problem of the closed room, but we can imagine that Shannon and Genji simply used their master keys.


EP2 4th 5th 6th twilight (Gohda, George and Shannon inside Natsuhi's room)
Earth to earth. ......No one would dispute that a coffin is a closed room

This one is hard. The meaning of "Earth to earth" isn't as clear as "Illusions to Illusions", it probably means that this is a fact. But how exactly this solves the mystery? There can be many speculations. I think someone pointed out that this seems to quote a famous murder case. However that path was non conclusive, it is still unclear what Will exactly meant to say.


EP2 7th and 8th twilight (Nanjo and Kumasawa killed by zombie Kanon)
Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. ......No illusion can create a corpse.

Very unclear. Is he talking about Kanon killing them or the dead themselves?
In the first case he's simply reiterating that Kanon didn't really die to begin with and so the culprit is obviously Shannon. In the second case it means that Nanjo and Kumasawa simply faked their own death.
This still doesn't explain what kind of role Gohda had with this. I personally would find it disappointing if the whole stuff was made up.


EP3 1st twilight (the closed room chain)
Illusions to illusions. ......In a closed room ring, the end and the beginning overlap.

This seems to support the theory that I and Chrono postulated. Basically the chapel's door was already opened. Shannon's room was obviously the first one they'd check. That would leave time for Shannon to dress as Kanon enter the chapel and close it from inside. This way the first and the last overlap.
This assumes that the adults weren't able to understand that Shannon and Kanon weren't actually dead. But what can surprise us at this point?


EP3 2nd twilight (Maria and Rosa in the rose garden)
Earth to earth. ......No falsehoods in their final moments as told.

This doesn't tell us much. Unfortunately from this point onward Will just decides to be a bitch. Well of course you could say that this means that Maria and Rosa were actually killed. Maybe this also means that they were actually killed by Eva.
But the way they were killed certainly can't be the truth! So wtf Will? Whatever...


EP3 4th 5th 6th twilight (Kyrie, Rudolf and Hideyoshi in the mansion)
Earth to earth. ......No falsehoods in their final moments as told

Yeah they totally fought against demon stakes only to die by the hands of some bunny girl, go to hell Will!!
Well... yet again it seems that Eva killed them all, maybe she tried with the stakes first and then with the guns...
The mystery of Kyrie wanting to go there using food as an excuse isn't explained.
So basically Will is telling us: "they were killed". THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!


EP3 7th and 8th twilight (Natsuhi and Krauss in the arbor)
Earth to earth. ......The obvious culprit wields a mutable blade

The obvious culprit can't be anyone else but Eva. But what does it mean that she wields a mutable blade? How she lured both of them there? How she managed to kill them? This is anyone's guess...


EP3 9th twilight (George's death in the parlor, Nanjo's death near the servan room)
Mysteriously left unaddressed.


EP4 1st twilight (the massacre in the dining room)
Illusions to illusions. ......Tales woven by the gold truth return to illusions

Okay I get it that it was all lie... but then they really died, no? Or not?


EP4 2nd twilight (Jessica in her room and George in the arbor)
Illusions to illusions. ......Tales woven by the gold truth return to illusions

Yeah I get it, it's all a lie, but how it was done?


Ep4 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th twilight (Nanjo, Kanon, Shannon, Krauss and Kyrie dying all along the way from the well to the Mansion)
Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. ......Silent corpses, adorned by fiction.

Again, they were killed, but they lied about how they died. THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!


EP4 9th twilight (Kumasawa and Gohda in the shed, Maria in the parlor)
mysteriously left unaddressed


EP4 9th twilight (final riddle)
Earth to earth. Illusions to illusions. ......When fiction is shut up inside a cat box, it becomes truth.

This is a long shot, but I think Will is basically saying that the very reason of this cat box is the final explosion that will kill everyone. That alone should explain Beatrice's last riddle.


Apparently Will and Clair do not deem necessary to explain anything that happened after the 8th twilight (with the exception of EP4's last riddle), even though some of those crimes were pretty important in their respective stories.
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Old 2010-12-18, 20:44   Link #19912
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About 07151129...
I think that's the pin number of the card Yasu gives to Eva in EP7 tea party, right?
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Old 2010-12-18, 20:48   Link #19913
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About 07151129...
I think that's the pin number of the card Yasu gives to Eva in EP7 tea party, right?
Yeah it's probably the same pin number of the various bank accounts.

Also. 11 29 = November 29, which is the day when Yasu solved the epitaph and Kinzo died.

The whole thing could be seen as Battler's birth date + Beatrice's birth date
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Old 2010-12-18, 20:57   Link #19914
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A "mutable blade" probably refers to a wire or rope, something that can be used to strangle someone. Since Krauss and Natsuhi were apparently strangled with something, that's not really surprising. I'm assuming Will just means "they were strangled, just as it looks like they were."
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Old 2010-12-18, 21:24   Link #19915
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Much thanks for the analysis. Now the only one that really bothers me is Earth to earth. ......No one would dispute that a coffin is a closed room
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Old 2010-12-18, 21:33   Link #19916
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I think it means is that everybody in that room is dead.
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Old 2010-12-18, 21:36   Link #19917
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What a twist.

We are lucky that Will is so kind to gift us with his awesome insight.
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Old 2010-12-18, 21:44   Link #19918
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*snip*
Don't forget the final one regarding Beatrice's heart:

EP4 Who...aaam I......?
Illusions... to illusions. ......The promised reaper lowers the curtains on the tale regardless of the witch's will.

And yeah, we may never know the true answers to some of these riddles due to ambiguity.
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Old 2010-12-18, 21:48   Link #19919
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That one also seems to refer to the final explosion.

But I don't think that's the kind of answer Beatrice was expecting in EP4....
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Old 2010-12-18, 21:50   Link #19920
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I think it means is that everybody in that room is dead.
Is that so? Then thanks for the confirmation, Will, disregarding the fact that it doesn't prove how the closed room was set. What was the point of him answering in riddles, again?
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