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Old 2011-03-02, 12:26   Link #781
MrTerrorist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
If i had to be critical of one thing about the Krisna military i would have to say they need to bump up not only their intelligence but their recon skills as well. General Borcuse was able to cross the Border and get so deep into into Krisna that General True's unit was ambushed before they even got to where they were suppose to be. To me this lack of foresight that Athens could possibly move and infiltrate the country faster (given what they already faced with Zess) than anticipated lead to Generals True's death at the hand of Nike and when Narvi finds out shes going to go berserk.
There's an explanation for this. If you remember in the 2nd movie, we saw an Athens General and his army attacking a fortress held by Krisna. That fortress is located near the Athens/Krisna border and it's what's preventing the full force of the Athens army arriving unopposed. The Krisna military thought the Athenians would just focus on trying to take over the fortress which would allow both General True and General Baldr armies enough time to arrive and find a suitable defensive position. What they didn't expect was General Borcuse and his army ignored the fortress and immediately headed to Krisna.
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Old 2011-03-02, 13:00   Link #782
Sinestra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
There's an explanation for this. If you remember in the 2nd movie, we saw an Athens General and his army attacking a fortress held by Krisna. That fortress is located near the Athens/Krisna border and it's what's preventing the full force of the Athens army arriving unopposed. The Krisna military thought the Athenians would just focus on trying to take over the fortress which would allow both General True and General Baldr armies enough time to arrive and find a suitable defensive position. What they didn't expect was General Borcuse and his army ignored the fortress and immediately headed to Krisna.
Right thats what im saying its like they didnt even think of contingency plan. But also General True did rush into battle because hes hot headed so there's that aspect as well.

If it were me i knew that Borcuse was leading the army. I would immediately start to rethink my plans and deployments. Athens has already shown they can cover ground and move forces very fast. A small scouting force could have picked up that Athens had moved pass the fortress. I do see what you are saying now and it does make sense. It just seems that their intelligence gathering and recon are pretty terrible especially in desert kingdom where tracking is important because of the mountains
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Old 2011-03-02, 13:08   Link #783
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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
yeah i smell something fishy like an arranged marriage or Hodr married her so no one else could hoping Rygart would wake up one day. Its clear to everyone that they are no more husband and wife than i am the king of Arabia.
You're a king!? Come on, they may not act like husband and wife or anything, but on paper and in society, they are wed. So you cannot say that it is nothing.

And Hodr must be gay. It's the only explanation for him sleeping in a different room and different bed that I will accept.

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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
If it were me i knew that Borcuse was leading the army. I would immediately start to rethink my plans and deployments. Athens has already shown they can cover ground and move forces very fast. A small scouting force could have picked up that Athens had moved pass the fortress. I do see what you are saying now and it does make sense. It just seems that their intelligence gathering and recon are pretty terrible especially in desert kingdom where tracking is important because of the mountains
And if it were me, I wouldn't send 21 people to their deaths. That was so stupid.
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Old 2011-03-02, 13:18   Link #784
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Yeah, stupid alright. they already have terrain advantage and to send your own people to suicide is just too stupid. Baldr is supposed to be a very experienced general, isn't he?
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Old 2011-03-02, 14:14   Link #785
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
You're a king!? Come on, they may not act like husband and wife or anything, but on paper and in society, they are wed. So you cannot say that it is nothing.


And Hodr must be gay. It's the only explanation for him sleeping in a different room and different bed that I will accept.

And if it were me, I wouldn't send 21 people to their deaths. That was so stupid.
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Originally Posted by sgwc View Post
Yeah, stupid alright. they already have terrain advantage and to send your own people to suicide is just too stupid. Baldr is supposed to be a very experienced general, isn't he?
Well by that i meant in appearance not actually on paper. Oh i agree you have a beautiful intelligent wife how can any man stand sleeping in another room. Shed have to pry me off of her with a crowbar lol.


Yeah i dont know what the hell that was about it. Its standard in like every military since the beginning of time. You do not give up the high ground you hold your position and make the enemy attack you and make them pay dearly for every step they take.

Why did Baldr not call sharpshooters to be deployed and weaken the enemy from long range first before charging. That what you do in the high ground they dont have artillery to rain down on them but they were is such a sweet spot to start picking off Athens units it wasent even funny.

Any good commander would have been licking his lips with the ground Baldr had it was perfect. He had ground advantage, clear line of retreat if things went bad and he could have held out till Rygart the rest of the reinforcements arrived. That alone could have turned the tide of battle.
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Old 2011-03-02, 15:08   Link #786
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They all knew it was a trap, and when the enemy sets you up, you don't go right in his house. However, like Borcuse kept saying, Baldr's tactics are good but they're by-the-book to a fault, so maybe Baldr was trying to be unpredictable? Thats the only reason to send your second-in-command straight into a trap.
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Old 2011-03-02, 15:38   Link #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttdestroy View Post
They all knew it was a trap, and when the enemy sets you up, you don't go right in his house. However, like Borcuse kept saying, Baldr's tactics are good but they're by-the-book to a fault, so maybe Baldr was trying to be unpredictable? Thats the only reason to send your second-in-command straight into a trap.
Well the one thing i cant fault Baldr on was whom he chose to lead the assault. Shes specializes in close quarters combat and is a sound leader, if the attack had any chance of being successful someone competent had to go. But her loss and humiliation and the hands of Nike was still too much for the troops to take.

I guess the question we could ask is. Was is it too much of gamble? In my opinion yes it was. No matter what era you live in if its a ground war position on the ground take precedent. A small unit can hold out against a much stronger force if they have good ground. Having the high ground is as good as it gets and in this situation i can point another advantage Baldr had.

If you go back and look at the heights Baldr occupied there were several natural advantages.

1.Natural sniping spot

2.The hill was steep when the 20 units drop down to attack they slid down because of how steep it was. Now imagine the Athens units trying to attack in force up such steep ground. From what i saw there were no Artimis units there (they could have cleared them easily with their mobility but not with out taking long rage fire)

3.The area where the Athens troops would have had to assault was not big enough for a large group to attack in force. They would have been on top of each other trying to get up. Therefore rending their number advantage squat. Think of where Girghe attacked in a narrow canyon where they could not fully deploy and he inflicted heavy damage on Borucse own personal guard.

4. This is the most important from the position i saw them take up it was impossible for Baldr's units to be flanked nor attacked from behind. Which means they have held for days depending on supplies. Also with no way for the enemy to get behind them their retreat route would have remained opened.

I say this is the most important because Baldr could have sent a messenger stating he needed reinforcements. Tired or damaged units could have been pulled off the line replaced with fresh units. Bolstering his forces while holding Athens at bay and the retreat option was still there, just encase the main Athens force arrived. Worst case scenario is there is stalemate. From what i can tell from how the Athens forces are trained getting into a war of attrition with them is a bad idea these guys excel at this kind overwhelming and psychological warfare. Weaken their forces while holding and force them to pull back. I bet if Baldr would have done this Athens would have pulled back why? Because Borcuse would have become bored and he did have a mission objective he did not have infinite time to waste on that battle. Plus when Rygart showed up it would have thrown him off and he would still retreated.

I know im over-thinking it but it was as clear as day to me.
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Old 2011-03-02, 17:37   Link #788
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Originally Posted by ttdestroy View Post
They all knew it was a trap, and when the enemy sets you up, you don't go right in his house. However, like Borcuse kept saying, Baldr's tactics are good but they're by-the-book to a fault, so maybe Baldr was trying to be unpredictable? Thats the only reason to send your second-in-command straight into a trap.
Baldr was not trying to be unpredictable but trying to take advantage of a situation that presented itself. Baldr pretty much knew that there was a trap going on but he took a chance into trying to eliminate a key piece of the invading army. Borcus deliberately allowed himself to just have only five other golems with him in goading a response from Baldr, in which it worked since it had Ersa and her 10 units trying to take out the general. On paper, Ersa had the numbers but did not take into account that Borcus has the better quality of golem pilots and golems themselves. Also, when Ersa was killed and her unit annihilated it allowed for Borcus to use psychological warfare but stinging up Ersa's golem to demoralize Baldr troops. This cause Baldr to take the actions he did that almost costed him the battle had not Rygart and co arrived in time to disrupt the flow of the battle.
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Old 2011-03-02, 18:59   Link #789
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Old 2011-03-02, 19:40   Link #790
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I wouldn't call that "family friendly."
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Old 2011-03-02, 20:17   Link #791
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Which other kingdom has their queen running around with V split robe showing (hopefully nothing) underneath as...her uniform?

Tactics in BB is fairly basic/random so don't let it distract you from the plot developments. Oh and the series should be 'fantasy' rather than 'science fiction', just because it has giant robots when they are actually powered by mysterious quartz magic...
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Old 2011-03-02, 20:51   Link #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoLongerSane View Post
Baldr was not trying to be unpredictable but trying to take advantage of a situation that presented itself. Baldr pretty much knew that there was a trap going on but he took a chance into trying to eliminate a key piece of the invading army. Borcus deliberately allowed himself to just have only five other golems with him in goading a response from Baldr, in which it worked since it had Ersa and her 10 units trying to take out the general. On paper, Ersa had the numbers but did not take into account that Borcus has the better quality of golem pilots and golems themselves. Also, when Ersa was killed and her unit annihilated it allowed for Borcus to use psychological warfare but stinging up Ersa's golem to demoralize Baldr troops. This cause Baldr to take the actions he did that almost costed him the battle had not Rygart and co arrived in time to disrupt the flow of the battle.
I still don't see how it was taking advantage of the situation. I was more or less dumbfounded.

If it was me I would've just sent in more golems and do a divide and conquer, wiping out the separated athenian forces.
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Old 2011-03-03, 01:02   Link #793
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I still don't see how it was taking advantage of the situation. I was more or less dumbfounded.

If it was me I would've just sent in more golems and do a divide and conquer, wiping out the separated athenian forces.
Well, Baldr saw an opportunity to take the head of the invading army and after discussing it with Ersa, decided to allow her to attempt to kill Borcus early. But I agree with most on how horrid this strategy went since it ended up costing valuable pilots and golems, not to mention giving the enemy momentum and a psychological advantage. In truth, I would have waited for guys like Girge and Rygart to show up as back up before making any more attempts on attacking Borcus.

Also, I manage to watch the 4th picture drama. It was a very amusing thing to see.
Spoiler for 4th picture drama:


I also manage to find out what Sigyn type merchandise finally was.
Spoiler for NSFW Sigyn sports towel:
Yup, you read the spoiler tag correctly, it's a sports towel. Though I highy doubt drying off would be it's primary usage.
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Old 2011-03-03, 01:12   Link #794
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Spoiler for Sinestra's long post:


Spoiler for equally long post:
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Old 2011-03-03, 01:31   Link #795
SoldierOfDarkness
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Why are we putting these in spoilers?

Quote:
Well, Baldr saw an opportunity to take the head of the invading army and after discussing it with Ersa, decided to allow her to attempt to kill Borcus early. But I agree with most on how horrid this strategy went since it ended up costing valuable pilots and golems, not to mention giving the enemy momentum and a psychological advantage. In truth, I would have waited for guys like Girge and Rygart to show up as back up before making any more attempts on attacking Borcus.
I'd still say it was stupid. Borcus himself is an infamous and highly capable commander. Plus, he just wiped out 50 of True's troops I would be more cautious if they presented such an opportunity like that.

Quote:
Baldr may have the highground, but it is in the middle of nowhere. They did not meant to set up defense there to stop the invasion. They did it cause True's troops were ambushed and that significant amount of Athens troops are likely coming their way. They may be able to hold a few days with their current supply but they will be stuck there watching the enemies reinforce (depending on how far out the reinforcements are).

With no hope for immediate reinforcement (he doesn't know when Rygart and co. will arrive) and crumbling moral, he needed to make a decision fast. He can't really retreat because there are other units with him: scouts might be able to evade the pursuit but it is hard to imagine the supply units moving fast.

One might argue that going after one of the flanks before going after Borcus is better but Borcus and the other flank can come pouring out too and make the all vs all engagement on the open plain. If Baldr's troops, who are filled with rage, can charge fast enough and engage Borcus before the flanks closed in, they do have a shot. If they can force Borcus to retreat some distance (at the odd of 30-40 vs 6, Borcus might consider it) the other troops can use the rocks where Nikki and Lo were firing from as cover and hold the flanks back.

Of course, after seeing the result of charging down the middle its hard to argue that it is a better choice. However, I'd say that he made an acceptable choice, given the conditions. Heck, with the involvement of Rygart and co. it gave Baldr the upper hand in that the few of Lo's soldier can charge out of the cover to engage with the looming uncertainty of Rygart's golem or watch the flank get decimated.
Doesn't matter, reinforcements are coming in from both sides and high ground is high ground. In order to dislodge Baldr's troops from that ridge you'd need at least a 3:1 ratio to do it.

What I suggested was to send in the whole troop and then split into an "M" shape with one group taking on the left and the other taking on the right while leaving a rear guard to hold off Borcuse whose pretty much just standing there. With Rygart and the others coming they could've easily have decimated both sides.
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Old 2011-03-03, 01:53   Link #796
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^ I pretty much agree with what Baldr's actions being foolhardy, but the general took a chance in trying to end the invasion early by taking out the head. In truth, better tactics could have been utilized with time, but Baldr was baited successfully by Borcus and the chance to take the head was the option that was taken. Even though Baldr warned Ersa to fall back if the situation were to go awray, that action costed the life of the second in command and gave Borcus a tool to work with in his psychological warfare.
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Old 2011-03-03, 04:38   Link #797
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If you know you're being baited it's a bad strategy.
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Old 2011-03-03, 07:48   Link #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttdestroy View Post
If you know you're being baited it's a bad strategy.
I agree

Well a wise man did say "The first way to avoid a trap is learning of its existence" Baldr knew he still attacked it was gamble and a bad one and loss many men and units. Yes people have a point he wanted to try to end the invasion early. But you do not make fool hearty decisions against a General an like Borcus he will make you pay dearly for it. I would have even supported small skirmishes in order to by time for Rygart and co to arrive as back up. The fact remains Borcus had Baldr figured out baited him and nearly took the day but not without take both size taking heavy damage but thats only because Rygart showed up when he did.
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Old 2011-03-03, 11:25   Link #799
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On that moment Borcuse's golem is left wide open guarded only with 5 golems. Baldr knew it was a trap and Borcuse was basically the bait. Number wise he's sending 21 golems against a mere 6. Imo Baldr was thinking rationally where he thought 21 could simply wipe the floor of 6 golems, especially when Elsa's leading them. To Baldr and Elsa's surprise, those 6 basically pwned the 21 thrown at them really hard. This is where I think while Baldr thought he had numerical superiority, he failed to asses the huge piloting skills gap between the 6 and 21.

To put it simple Baldr made a gamble relying on superior numbers, and he lost.

Borcuse’s aim is to demoralize Krisna’s troops, and nothing does it better than seeing a small squad of 6 golems obliterating a sheer number of 21. This intention was made clear when Elsa realizing that the enemies from the left and right flank didn’t attack when her squad running straight to Borcuse and neither Elsa or Baldr could even realize it. Imo Borcuse also made a gamble with relying on 6 elite against 21, and basically won.
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Old 2011-03-03, 16:01   Link #800
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Boldr should have known it was not that simple because he knew who his opponent was. If Borcuse was some no-name new hot shot, than I'd consider it... but they should have known better.

And the deaths were pretty gruesome here. I am glad this wasn't a TV series. If it was, I would have gotten attached to the characters more, and it would have made them dying all that more worse.

But a TV series would mean more Sigyn... I wish it was a TV series.
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