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Old 2009-07-08, 21:13   Link #61
Gin
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Actually he appeared in the manga too, at the end of chp 314. Then he literally disappeared. I don't know if he was featured in a few more scenes in the anime but in the manga he seemed to be forgotten. I wouldn't be that perplexed at him suddenly arriving on the battlefield like Momo. But apparently he's been there somewhere, the entire time!
maybe he was taking a bathroom break
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Old 2009-07-08, 21:34   Link #62
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The chapter summary so far has made me very happy. I'm so relieved to see the Vizards did exactly what I expected them too by not initiating a two-front war. Even if they don't want to consider those from the Gotei 13 allies, at the very least, they don't necessarily consider them enemies either. They know that Aizen is the bigger threat so they've proven mature enough to look beyond old grudges for the sake of defeating him. For that, they still have my respect.
Mature is not really the word, more like they want to get Aizen more than they want revenge on the Goti 13.

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And who knows? Maybe Yama-jii will see fit to correct the wrongs imposed by the old C46 once all this is over (since I think he's taken over for them). Knowing the Vizards, they probably still wouldn't go back to the Gotei 13, but at the very least, they might be willing to forgive even if they don't necessarily want to forget.
I don't really see how Yama-Ji can correct anything, the truth is that the Vizards are a different species of spirit. Even if Yama-Ji would welcome them back into the Goti 13, I don't think the inhabitants of the SS would ever accept them. Plus you have the question of where they belong, I mean they are just as or more powerful than the current captains. What would you do? Demote current captains? I guess they could make them a separate division or something, but when central 46 is put back together they will not be welcome. Unless maybe the king says so. Either way I don't think they even want to go back to the SS. If anything they could go the rout of turning everyone in the SS into a vizard or maybe trying to take over the SS themselves, then Ichigo would have to try to stop them. So many possibilities ley with the Vizards, I don't know where KT will go with them, but whatever he does it better be good!


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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Of course, KT could take the cheap way out by somehow letting Aizen escape throughout the midst of all the conflict. But where would be the fun in that?
Unfortunately I think that's exactly whats going to happen.
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Old 2009-07-08, 21:54   Link #63
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I mean they are just as or more powerful than the current captains. What would you do? Demote current captains? I guess they could make them a separate division or something, but when central 46 is put back together they will not be welcome. Unless maybe the king says so. Either way I don't think they even want to go back to the SS.
well there are 3 empty captains spots right now and i think hachi could go back to the kidou corps, so i guess the other 4 vizards could join the re-built central 46, start a new division, join the royal guard or just be killed off
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Old 2009-07-08, 22:11   Link #64
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If I were the Vizards, maybe I'd want to take over HM and rule over the hollows? The old bad hollows, and good pluses thing that SS tries to advertise is thrown out the window with arrancars, so you kinda have to wonder whats going to happen to them once the war with Aizen is won and over (and we know the good guys WILL win, we just don't know what the cost to winning will be yet). I think all of us know that quite a few of the Espadas would work really well side by side with the Vizard if they didn't have such a hard-on for Aizen at the moment. We even have Nel who doesn't seem evil at all and would be perfectly fine with defecting.

So I guess to understand the future of the Vizards, we first have to figure out the future of the Arrancars. If SS goes on a witchhunt with the Arrancars after Aizen is gone, then we know the Vizards are screwed.
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Old 2009-07-08, 22:14   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Kayin View Post
If I were the Vizards, maybe I'd want to take over HM and rule over the hollows? The old bad hollows, and good pluses thing that SS tries to advertise is thrown out the window with arrancars, so you kinda have to wonder whats going to happen to them once the war with Aizen is won and over (and we know the good guys WILL win, we just don't know what the cost to winning will be yet). I think all of us know that quite a few of the Espadas would work really well side by side with the Vizard if they didn't have such a hard-on for Aizen at the moment. We even have Nel who doesn't seem evil at all and would be perfectly fine with defecting.

So I guess to understand the future of the Vizards, we first have to figure out the future of the Arrancars. If SS goes on a witchhunt with the Arrancars after Aizen is gone, then we know the Vizards are screwed.
i agree...im pretty sure stark, halibel and nel would be great with the vizards. i reallly really wish i could say the same for barragan but i can't
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Old 2009-07-08, 22:21   Link #66
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Old 2009-07-08, 22:47   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Well it's true that you don't want to make the big villain look weak, but at the same time keeping him god-like until the very end and then exposing sudden weakness will make his defeat seem like a deus ex. It's about time he started showing a few chinks in his plot armor. And the vizard are powerful enough that them giving Aizen some trouble wouldn't make him seem too weak.
You've got a point.

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Originally Posted by MAQI View Post
I don't really see how Yama-Ji can correct anything, the truth is that the Vizards are a different species of spirit.
ehh...sort of. In the same way Ichigo still regards himself as a Shinigami and the Arrancar still regard themselves as hollow, I see no reason why the Vizard themselves and the rest of the Gotei 13 can't view them as shinigami as oppose to a "different species" altogether.

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Even if Yama-Ji would welcome them back into the Goti 13, I don't think the inhabitants of the SS would ever accept them.
Agree to disagree then. Because I definitely don't think so. Especially if the Vizards end up playing a critical role in saving the day.

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Plus you have the question of where they belong, I mean they are just as or more powerful than the current captains. What would you do? Demote current captains?
Gin answered this pretty well. So I won't bother. Besides, that probably wouldn't be something they'd even have to worry about anyways since we both seem to agree that they most likely wouldn't go back to SS in the first place.

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I guess they could make them a separate division or something, but when central 46 is put back together they will not be welcome.
You're assuming the new people who will compose C46 will be exactly the same as those who ran it before--which doesn't have to necessarily happen. The new C46 might very well be composed of some relatively liberal minded people.

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Either way I don't think they even want to go back to the SS.
I agree. I believe I stated this in my previous post.

Last edited by sayde; 2009-07-08 at 23:38.
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Old 2009-07-08, 23:22   Link #68
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Haha im glad it wasnt just me that thought about that
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Old 2009-07-08, 23:46   Link #69
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ehh...sort of. In the same way Ichigo still regards himself as a Shinigami and the Arrancar still regard themselves as hollow, I see no reason why the Vizard themselves and the rest of the Gotei 13 can't view them as shinigami as oppose to a "different species" altogether.
Ichigo's position is different from Shinji's team, because Ichigo is still a substitute shinigami and not directly enlisted in Gotei13, while Shinji's team were all high-ranking officers who seemingly defected...the elite can't accept failure, I think it said that in the pendulum arc, so Shinji's team being recognized as Shinigami is the same as admitting the fact that Gotei13 has fallen from its previous glory (whatever that may be).
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Old 2009-07-09, 01:15   Link #70
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the elite can't accept failure, I think it said that in the pendulum arc,
But that was back in the pendulum arc. They may not like to admit, but it seems like the elite have been forced to face their failures a lot ever since the end of the SS arc 100 years later. Times have changed.

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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Shinji's team being recognized as Shinigami is the same as admitting the fact that Gotei13 has fallen from its previous glory (whatever that may be).
I can't quite support this view. First off, the Gotei 13 would have to be crazy not to admit that they've already fallen from their previous glory upon the betrayal of 3 of their captains. So from the way I see it, Shinji's team being recognized as Shinigami is the same as admitting to the fact that what to happened to them was not their fault, but Aizen's -- just like everything else. They shouldn't have a problem doing that by now. Especially now that C46 is gone.

Besides, when Ichigo and co. broke into the Seireitei, they were branded as criminals and many immediately assumed they were murderers. But once the truth was finally revealed, the elite among the Gotei 13 weren't too proud and stubborn to admit they were wrong. They accepted their failures, and pardoned them. They were even widely regarded as heroes afterwards. So I don't see why they can't do the same for the Vizards.

The upcoming battles are bound to shed a lot more insight on to the general opinions and views of how some of the captains & vice captains feel about the Vizards. Maybe a debate like this should continue then.

Last edited by sayde; 2009-07-09 at 01:30.
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Old 2009-07-09, 01:56   Link #71
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Quote:

* Shinji addresses Aizen and says its been a long time . Yamaji is surprised by there presence and asks Shinji were they hiding in the real world . Shinji ignores Yamaji and turns his attention to the Vizard group .


* Shinji inquires, is there anyone from Gotei 13 they would like to greet . Hiyori replies negatively which irritates Shinji and he retorts saying he was asking all not Hiyori alone . Hiyori loses her temper and snarls saying she is included in everybody. Love Hacchi Rose and Kensei reply negatively too . Lisa leaves the group and heads away to Hiyori's surprise . Mashiro wants to meet Berry Tan ( Ichigo) and Shinji goes to greet Yamaji .


* Scene changes to Lisa who is talking to a semi conscious Shunshui. She proceeds to abuse Shunshui. Kyoraku snaps and pleads her to stop as it hurts .Shunshui complements Risa's beauty, observing that she has become prettier than before . Risa chides and tells him to go back to sleep as she is stronger than before . Shunshui says he is glad that Risa has been alright.

A more detailed summary from the spoiler pictures released so far : )
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Old 2009-07-09, 02:29   Link #72
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A more detailed summary from the spoiler pictures released so far : )

Thank You Mr. Spoiler-SAMA

Looking Forward To This Chapter Come out [ I Wannted Read It NOW ]
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Old 2009-07-09, 02:43   Link #73
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^Well there is very good chance that the chapter may be out in a few hours going by last week . As we get spoiler pictures usually late Thursday .
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Old 2009-07-09, 03:07   Link #74
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Risa chides and tells him to go back to sleep as she is stronger than before . Shunshui says he is glad that Risa has been alright.
Something about that just made me feel all giddy inside
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Old 2009-07-09, 04:29   Link #75
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Old 2009-07-09, 10:07   Link #76
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Ichigo's position is different from Shinji's team, because Ichigo is still a substitute shinigami and not directly enlisted in Gotei13, while Shinji's team were all high-ranking officers who seemingly defected...the elite can't accept failure, I think it said that in the pendulum arc, so Shinji's team being recognized as Shinigami is the same as admitting the fact that Gotei13 has fallen from its previous glory (whatever that may be).
The Gotei 13 hasnt been glorious ever since Aizen was enlisted

Honestly though... Kyouraku and Ukitake, can you honestly say they take a big interest in glory? They're just all around good guys who do the right thing for the most part. The ONLY people that I could see opposing The Vaizards returning would be the more prideful and rule constricting people ex. Byakuya and Soifon.

Could you see kenpachi, unohana, komamura, or hitsugaya getting mad about it?

Yamamoto would probably only object by an order, and Mayuri wouldnt really care.


And at the same time, As shinji says in the spoiler, they arent allies, they're only ichigo's allies.
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Old 2009-07-09, 10:10   Link #77
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Eeehhh? Are vizards going to fight simple Menos or something?
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Old 2009-07-09, 10:12   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Jun Kikade View Post
The Gotei 13 hasnt been glorious ever since Aizen was enlisted

Honestly though... Kyouraku and Ukitake, can you honestly say they take a big interest in glory? They're just all around good guys who do the right thing for the most part. The ONLY people that I could see opposing The Vaizards returning would be the more prideful and rule constricting people ex. Byakuya and Soifon.

Could you see kenpachi, unohana, komamura, or hitsugaya getting mad about it?

Yamamoto would probably only object by an order, and Mayuri wouldnt really care.


And at the same time, As shinji says in the spoiler, they arent allies, they're only ichigo's allies.
Actually I can see Komamura complaining sinse he also is law obessed.
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Old 2009-07-09, 10:16   Link #79
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Eeehhh? Are vizards going to fight simple Menos or something?
Who knows what else will come out of superchunky

Probably the gillians are only a warmup though, guessing once they have finished these up there will be coming out more powerful hollows, if not, they will face of against the espadas and perhaps even gin, tousen etc ?
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Old 2009-07-09, 11:15   Link #80
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Yamamoto would probably only object by an order, and Mayuri wouldnt really care.
Speaking of which, Yamamoto's reaction to the Vizards appearance intrigued me to a degree. The fact that he asked Shinji whether or not he could consider them allies is pretty significant IMO. Because this shows that Yamamoto (being as stubborn as he is) is already open to the possibility of working alongside them. Otherwise, he wouldn't have needed to ask Shinji anything. He would've automatically assumed the Vizards to be enemies, despite their intentions. And he probably would've treated them as such.

To sum it up, I think that Yamamoto's willingness to accept aid from the Vizards provides us with a little bit of insight as to where he may possibly stand on the issue.
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