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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 05 Rating
Perfect 10 54 14.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 5.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 5.97%
7 out of 10 : Good 25 6.49%
6 out of 10 : Average 27 7.01%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 16 4.16%
4 out of 10 : Poor 10 2.60%
3 out of 10 : Bad 8 2.08%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 7 1.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 195 50.65%
Voters: 385. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-09, 23:09   Link #421
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animexcel View Post
I think Yuki was about to cry.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
Also, Kodokawa has been upsetting me with their antics for the past couple of years, so this is no surprise. If there is someone to blame, it is Kodokawa. They really need new leadership, or at least get their heads examined.
And we've been thinking this for, what, the good part of two years now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
Besides that, I'm in despair as every episode, Haruhi gets further and further off model. She's slowly transformed into a K-On character and the transformation is almost complete.
Well, relentlessflame already pointed out that the staff that did this episode contributed to K-On episodes 5 and 11, plus the Don't Be Lazy ED. It gives people something to think about, in that there might be something to the idea that KyoAni is going through their Directors and staff pool for each Endless Eight iteration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The lack of previews is becoming a bother actually. Despite it being useless, it just is one less thing to allow for hope.
HOPE IS THE FIRST STEP ON THE ROAD TO DISAPPOINTMENT. (Yes, Warhammer 40k is a treasure trove of quotes for situations like this).
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:14   Link #422
Ithekro
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The lack of previews is becoming a bother actually. Despite it being useless, it just is one less thing to allow for hope.

Oh and was it the fansubbers, or were there actual Macross Frontier references in this episode (around the frog suit section).
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:15   Link #423
Ashlotte
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Oh god that gave me a good laugh...Amirite?
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:22   Link #424
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With due respect to the opinions expressed in this forum, it would be nothing short of astounding if anything other than financial considerations played a role in the decision by the animation studio to run doppelganger versions of the same episode over and over again. The most likely explanation for the decision is that the studio and/or merchandisers are simply making a shameless attempt to artificially extend a series in order to reap increased profits over an extended period of time. Clearly, this has been the modus operandi for such entities, be it in the past, present, and, very likely, the future.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:23   Link #425
Ithekro
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If there are "just" six version of this...there are two left....will they make one very different before giving us an ending? Some of those different versions Yuki started to talk about? Or the more radical versions (Higurashi/Umineko style days....genderbent warping...Kyon/Itsuki hug Haruhi and tell her "I love you")?

Or just another one of more or less the same, just with a different art director, new clothes, slightly different mood and such.

I wonder if the final version will be more fluid...no still scenes, making it a more complete looking story rather than a quick repeat of one of the earlier versions. Enough so it could stand by itself without the others at all?
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:25   Link #426
Ashlotte
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I don't see how that theory holds any water considering their reanimating this everytime and its going to be nigh impossible to market a collection of what is essentially the same episode at anywhere near the amount of money that episodes with different stories would...Hell I don't even know if they'd sell at all even if you GAVE them away at this point...

Ah either way I find this really funny honestly...Its really gone beyond just a stunt and we are defiantly into EPIC territory here.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:29   Link #427
suguru
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Wow...it looks like Kyoani and Kadokawa have miscalculated very, very badly. It's like they were sitting around a conference room table trying to figure out how to utterly destroy a popular franchise - first the 10th novel going on indefinite, eternal hold, then dragging out when the second season would finally start, and now springing a second season out of nowhere and making it consist of the same episode over and over again.

I'm sure this is one of those things that sounded great in a team meeting, how repeating the episode will make the viewers feel Nagato's pain, etc., but in real life it's going over like a lead balloon. No one wants to watch the same thing happen four times in a row, even if it's Haruhi, even if they change the camera angles and the characters' wardrobes. It's like they believed their own hype a little too much - Haruhi's so popular we can do whatever we want and fans will still eat it up! Let's push the envelope! Well, good luck with that...

It wouldn't surprise me if the rumor on 2ch that one of the sponsors got pissed and the producer's head has rolled already is true, because this is not going to help ratings or DVD sales. I think the franchise is strong enough, and the material after Endless Eight strong enough, that Haruhi will bounce back in popularity anyway, but the cost, time, and effort that went into this, for a bunch of Endless Eight episodes no one will want to buy on DVD unless they give them away, has been pretty much wasted.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:32   Link #428
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Kyon and Itsuki hug each other and tell each other "I love you")?
Fixed that for you, sir.

Four episodes down. Two episodes to go. Bring it on Kadokawa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suguru View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if the rumor on 2ch that one of the sponsors got pissed and the producer's head has rolled already is true, because this is not going to help ratings or DVD sales.
Staff have been fired for less. Remember the Yamakan debacle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
I think, perhaps, that the focus on DVD sales and ratings is misplaced. I was under the impression that they reap most of their profits from trinkets, dolls, etc.
DVD sales account for a good-sized chunk of income for any franchise, and they're nominally used as a barometer for the productions of, oh, sequels for example. Ratings aren't taken into consideration as much, as a series can critically pan in the ratings (like Code Geass R2 and Macross Frontier) but still earn back their worth in DVD sales. In the case of the two aforementioned series, one would be surprised that they were WAY back in the pack compared to... Sanae-san and Shin-chan. Strange but true.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:33   Link #429
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I think, perhaps, that the focus on DVD sales and ratings is misplaced. I was under the impression that they reap most of their profits from trinkets, dolls, etc. In so far as that is concerned, it appears more prudent on their part to maintain continual exposure to the series over a longer period of time (i.e., keep it it in the public conscious, regardless of quality).
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:37   Link #430
Daniel E.
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Haven't watched the episode yet, but lol, I just couldn't resist checking the whole thread!

Looking forward to see how all this will end.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:38   Link #431
Ikonomi
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Okay, after watching the episode, you know what? I'm not upset at all. I'm surprised. This episode was actually a lot more than a Nice plane -- it was really well done. Yeah, it was the same storyline yet again, but the exposition was almost entirely different.

I'm beginning to think the previous episode was the odd one out in terms of overall quality. This one was imminently more interesting. It raises the questions of how they decided to air the Endless Eight episodes in this order and what were the differences between the teams who worked on each one.

I'll put my observations in a spoiler tag to save anyone who plans to watch the episode or who just doesn't want to read my thoughts.

Spoiler for observations:


And a few more random thoughts about individual scenes:

Spoiler for randomness:


Taken as part of the whole, I thought this episode was really interesting and sufficiently different to be genuinely entertaining. As a stand-alone, I think we all would have complained about the animation -- it's pretty different from any Haruhi episode so far. If I had to rank the Endless Eight episodes...

Endless Eight II > Endless Eight IV > Endless Eight III

With Endless Eight I left out because it's the archetype and isn't exactly the same as the others.

My internet connection is pretty poor lately, so I'm going to avoid a Nanako Kuroi and ctrl-A ctrl-C before I gamble on submitting this reply.

Last edited by Ikonomi; 2009-07-10 at 01:03.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:39   Link #432
mokuseimaru
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If anyone cares to know, Kyoani's "Contact Us" email is sr@kyotoanimation.co.jp . I took that from their English site, so who knows, maybe someone who can read English will see it.

Kadokawa's site has a form at https://wwws.kadokawa.co.jp/shop/sup...gi?ref_pat=web ---this may be more for their shop, but it was listed under the "feedback" section of their faq. They also have an email customer@kadokawa.co.jp , though again this may be more for customers at their shops.

In either case, it will probably do nothing in the long run, but for me there was a somewhat cathartic effect in telling either company that they won't be receiving my custom when the DVD's eventually come out in English, and furthermore I won't be watching anything Haruhi-related on YouTube, as Kadokawa makes had made over 10 million dollars from adds appended to various Haruhi-related videos on their account and others.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:39   Link #433
Ashlotte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
I think, perhaps, that the focus on DVD sales and ratings is misplaced. I was under the impression that they reap most of their profits from trinkets, dolls, etc. In so far as that is concerned, it appears more prudent on their part to maintain continual exposure to the series over a longer period of time (i.e., keep it it in the public conscious, regardless of quality).
Meh if their going that route I'd think their pissing off their hardcore audience that buys any and all merchandise more then anything else here, but thats just me...

Also I can only speak for the figure aspect of it, but their really scraping the bottom of the creative barrel at this point. They long ago exhausted any anime renditions and have pretty much run out of non-anime ones aswell...You'd think they'd want to make new episodes with new looks so they could market those no?
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:41   Link #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Perhaps, but I felt that pause before she mentioned how many cycles have past.


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Old 2009-07-09, 23:41   Link #435
suguru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
I think, perhaps, that the focus on DVD sales and ratings is misplaced. I was under the impression that they reap most of their profits from trinkets, dolls, etc. In so far as that is concerned, it appears more prudent on their part to maintain continual exposure to the series over a longer period of time (i.e., keep it it in the public conscious, regardless of quality).
I'm sure that's true that the merch is also a big part of the equation, but if the goal is to prolong the series, I'd argue there are much better ways to do it. They could have gone with anime original material as filler, like many other series do, and while I'm sure some rage would ensue among novel purists, I doubt it'd be anywhere near the nuclear-level hatred pouring out over all the Endless Eight iterations we're getting. I can see why in a conference room what they're doing could sound like a good idea, but I think they badly misjudged fan reaction, and in this case the bottom line is going to take a hit (DVD sales dropping, not to mention turning off a subset of fans who may say "screw Kyoani, I'm done" even if the episodes after Endless Eight are brilliant).
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:43   Link #436
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im amazed....it just aired today, and there are already almost as many posts as last episode's thread
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:44   Link #437
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Lol watching this episode it almost makes you seem like even that plane is important. Im pretty sure novel readers can figure out what Kyon has to do to end it, it is mentioned in every episode. Art style is terrible, like actually worse than K-on's simplistic style. I gave it 1/10 because endless 8 should have been a 2 parter max, not 6. 2 More weeks, or 594 more years!!!
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:46   Link #438
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
*snips*
Thank you, I can now properly give Kadokawa a piece of my mind. In three different languages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rice_slayer View Post
2 more weeks, or 594 more years!!!
The running bet in the Pool right now is 6 episodes for Endless Eight, so we're looking at a possible two more episodes before Kyon gets off his arse and does something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suguru View Post
I can see why in a conference room what they're doing could sound like a good idea, but I think they badly misjudged fan reaction, and in this case the bottom line is going to take a hit.
Trying to make sense of the decisions Kadokawa's Marketing Department makes is like trying to figure out what's going on in Anno's head post-depression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikonomi View Post
I'm not so sure that's the case. The repeat episodes still take man-hours to produce, and the latest episode was obviously storyboarded independently of the previous two. It seems like it would cost them to same to run episodes of Endless Eight as it would to do new stuff, and six weeks (or two weeks, or one, or however many Endless Eight repetitions one wants to consider) aren't significant in terms of Haruhi's merchandising lifespan. I really think there's something else at play here; I just don't know for sure what it is.
It would take a small production company like pre-KANON KyoAni anywhere from two to three weeks before the scheduled air date to produce an episode, and with the costs running into the hundreds of thousands of yen. It's no joke, which makes the decision to make variations on a single episode absolutely mind-boggling for people, given the sheer cost involved.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:50   Link #439
Ikonomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
With due respect to the opinions expressed in this forum, it would be nothing short of astounding if anything other than financial considerations played a role in the decision by the animation studio to run doppelganger versions of the same episode over and over again. The most likely explanation for the decision is that the studio and/or merchandisers are simply making a shameless attempt to artificially extend a series in order to reap increased profits over an extended period of time. Clearly, this has been the modus operandi for such entities, be it in the past, present, and, very likely, the future.
I'm not so sure that's the case. The repeat episodes still take man-hours to produce, and the latest episode was obviously storyboarded independently of the previous two. It seems like it would cost them to same to run episodes of Endless Eight as it would to do new stuff, and six weeks (or two weeks, or one, or however many Endless Eight repetitions one wants to consider) aren't significant in terms of Haruhi's merchandising lifespan. I really think there's something else at play here; I just don't know for sure what it is.
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Old 2009-07-09, 23:53   Link #440
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I haven't even paid attention to the voice work from episode to episode, are they actually using the same audio track over and over again with different animation? And if not, how frustrating it must have been for the voice actors to record the same dialogue so many times over.
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