AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Haruhi Suzumiya

Notices

View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 05 Rating
Perfect 10 54 14.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 5.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 5.97%
7 out of 10 : Good 25 6.49%
6 out of 10 : Average 27 7.01%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 16 4.16%
4 out of 10 : Poor 10 2.60%
3 out of 10 : Bad 8 2.08%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 7 1.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 195 50.65%
Voters: 385. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-07-13, 09:04   Link #881
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
nanika ga okashii... nantonaku so na kigashita...

Anyone else feel that way? Seriously, this thread is giving me a serious sense of deja vu?
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 09:17   Link #882
HotLed
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
And I thought you would at least reconsider whether you thought it was bad or not, in light of what I said. You still think it's bad? More power to you!

A person has to be thoroughly invested in the characters in order for it to work like you say. It's why Endless Eight was a fascinating read, since I was reading the chapters as fast as baka-tsuki could pump 'em out. But looking back, I don't remember really relating to the story at all. It was just more proof of the evolving character of Nagato, and another story to remind us that Haruhi has the freaky power to throw the gang into another ole' sci-fi standby. I know it didn't have nearly the emotional impact that reading Disappearance, Intrigues, or Disassociation had on me. I guess it just could not reach it's maximum impact with me. After all, it was just one chapter. A building block for the real stories. Now it's become something completely different. Take the Boredom episode for example. What would've been better, reading the chapter or watching the episode first? We can't do that with Endless Eight now can we?

Would you rather just watch all the episodes aired as they were written like in Season 1, but with all the minor tweaks and in-jokes on Japanese culture? That's been done, and might be satisfying, but it also might not be. The Haruhi franchise has a reputation for being completely unpredictable, even when they rehash all the old story plots. Come on, there's really nothing original at all in the overall story. Even the characters that drive the story are not original in and of themselves, heck they're even a parody of the old anime standbys. What's been great about it is how the story has been told.

And now they're trying to bring that back that insane storytelling that made season 1 so great. A ton of people hated "Asahina Mikuru's Adventures". A ton of people were frustrated with the asynchronous ordering of the episodes. But those of us who understood it enjoyed it for what it was, a fun series told in an interesting manner. Now, sorry to say, you're the one on the outside looking in, wondering why the hell all the screaming fanboys/girls are freaking out over this show. Too bad.
HotLed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 09:20   Link #883
Ice Block
less qq; more pewpew
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
2. A number of authors and scriptwriters need just one chapter/episode/story to create the feelings they want the audience to feel. I don't see how someone who needs more than that is anything close to genius, otherwise the others who can pull it with fewer material have to be gods.

2b. Kyoani in that aspect feels like a writer who, accepting inability to describe how something smells, has supplied you with a scent sample. Sure the experience is more pronounced and people may 1. see it as an interesting marketing plan or/and 2. marvel at the genius of the move, while in the end it's just Kyoani being an incompetent writer.
Incompetent my ass. Boldly risky, bordering mad[ness], would be more suitable.

Has it never occurred to you, that all this rage and frustration is exactly what the producers wanted from the watchers? IMO this was never meant to entertain the masses -- making those (me included) who are [still] enjoying this fiasco lucky for having a high amount of tolerance to repetition, and giving those who love statistics (panzerfan's ilk ) actual samples to work on instead of just mere numbers.

Now then, Mr. Scriptwriter, please, shower us with your proness and unmatched wit and intellect by giving us a one-episode-long (24 minutes at most) script that is able to convey invoke, rather, the exact same frustration the majority of the fanbase is feeling now (don't spread the 24 minutes across several weeks however -- that's cheating ). Pretty please!
__________________

Last edited by Ice Block; 2009-07-13 at 09:47.
Ice Block is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 09:35   Link #884
OkamiNoKaze
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Yeap, I think when it's all said and done, this will go down as the longest loop story ever televised,

I think time loop stories, are meant to be frustrating to the watcher, often times there's either no one knows or sometimes maybe one person knows in the story. I know I always felt frustration watching characters run around trying to figure it out, but in the end it made the getting out of it moment, which almost always a trivial thing, not sure in this case, but I have my guesses, all the more satisfying

Just like Kyon said, Haruhi (as series in this case) has again blown something too galactic proportions.
__________________
OkamiNoKaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 09:54   Link #885
HotLed
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Has it never occurred to you, that all this rage and frustration is exactly what the producers wanted from the watchers? IMO this was never meant to entertain the masses -- making those (me included) who are [still] enjoying this fiasco lucky for having a high amount of tolerance to repetition
Here's a thought. What kind of masochist do you need to be, to be in the SOS Brigade? The one's who're willing to take as much of a beating as they have, and still stay on, I think that's the target audience for this show. Everyone else reminds me of those poor, poor freshmen who stepped into the Literature club room that fine spring day, curious to see if it'll be something fun and interesting, but had absolutely no idea what they were getting into.
----
Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
Some questions though.

Was the original novel author able to invoke these feelings?
Was the intent of the original material to do so?

Depending on the answers, you can pinpoint both the good scriptwriter and the incompetent one, as well as what was indeed essential and what was not.
For Endless Eight?

No to the first question. Like I said earlier, like Fumoffu for Full Metal Panic, it doesn't really drive the story forward, it just shows some character growth in one character in particular, Yuki.

And No the the second question. It wasn't meant to, it was probably a cooldown since Tanigawa just finished writing Disappearance, and to explore some side stories, most important one being the last one.

But let's turn your test on it's head and apply it to Live A Live.

No, to the first question. The original chapter probably gave us a sense of Haruhi's maturity in doing something selfless right off the cuff. No consideration, she just did it. Any advantages she got from her performance were after the fact. Also showing us that she had a VERY wide range of talents. The anime on the other hand did more. It completely wowed the audience to the point of speechlessness. First episode I showed to a friend and she literally could not speak since the level of animation and singing was just so high. It's one of those moments that made you realize you were watching something special.

No to the second, like I stated above, primary goal was to just show that their home made video was a cult success, a bit of slice of life at a school festival, then make Haruhi shine through an enormous performance we can only imagine. The anime on the other hand was shock and awe from the moment she walked on stage to the moment they faded out into the rain.

So, by your conclusion, since it did not match the original intent and/or convey the original feelings, the Live A Live failed to live up to the original, which is not true since the goal of the anime was very different.

My proposition is that both Endless Eight and Live A Live are telling the same story as the one in the novels, but going about them with different goals and using a different path in the anime, which is unique to the series and which drew me to it in the first place. The author intends to tell a good and fascinating story in his books, the scriptwriters are trying to draw out the rawest emotions and in a way dropping you right into the seat of Kyon himself.

Last edited by HotLed; 2009-07-13 at 10:43. Reason: replying to npal's post below
HotLed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 10:09   Link #886
npal
I desire Tomorrow!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sixth Layer of Celestia
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post

Now then, Mr. Scriptwriter, please, shower us with your proness and unmatched wit and intellect by giving us a one-episode-long (24 minutes at most) script that is able to convey invoke, rather, the exact same frustration the majority of the fanbase is feeling now (don't spread the 24 minutes across several weeks however -- that's cheating ). Pretty please!
Give me an animation studio and I'll come up with something

Joke aside, I don't remember advertising myself as the great scriptwriter missing from Kyoani, so I don't exactly see the point there.

Some questions though.

Was the original novel author able to invoke these feelings?
Was the intent of the original material to do so?

Depending on the answers, you can pinpoint both the good scriptwriter and the incompetent one, as well as what was indeed essential and what was not.
npal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 10:13   Link #887
MihawkXGP
Master of The Sword
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
I think i'm gonna be computerless if this endless loop doesn't end. This is like torture and yet I keep watching for some reason. I love it, yet it drives me mad.
MihawkXGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 10:33   Link #888
aegisofrime
Yuki Nagato Worshipper
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hot, Very Hot Singapore
Quote:
Originally Posted by MihawkXGP View Post
I think i'm gonna be computerless if this endless loop doesn't end. This is like torture and yet I keep watching for some reason. I love it, yet it drives me mad.
In that case, KyoAni has succeeded. I feel the same way as you
aegisofrime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 11:02   Link #889
Slick_rick
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
Some questions though.

Was the original novel author able to invoke these feelings?
Was the intent of the original material to do so?

Depending on the answers, you can pinpoint both the good scriptwriter and the incompetent one, as well as what was indeed essential and what was not.
I don't know what the intent of the original has to do with the anime. Anime is a different medium and can be used to convey things that the novel can not and vice versa. The anime is in no way limited to just the scope of the novel but can add in their own touches. This is fairly essential to what the anime wants to present whether it is the intent of the novel is completely irrelevant. I don't know why you have to be incompetent if you add it you own twist/message into a story that the original didn't have or didn't expand on. Nothing is truly essential as you can change around many details and events and still get the point across. This is how KyoAni wishes to get its point across. You can love it or hate it.

I personally think this is much more interesting than ending it earlier. I have no problem with you or anyone else disliking it but certainly I think your views here are narrowminded. Anime adaptations are not beholden to the original to be exactly the same in presentation and vision.
__________________
Slick_rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 12:17   Link #890
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
If you guys have some weird masochistic empowerment that allows you to actually enjoy these episodes... I don't have much to say.

But trying to continually explain that these animated loops add meaning to the story is silly because it doesn't. Especially considering the fact that the novels don't do this and create the same feeling (And better than the anime honestly).

The focus of this arc is on Kyon, and Haruhi. We're trying to figure out what Haruhi wanted to do so bad and Kyon has to try and figure it out... Yeah, why doesn't Yuki stop the time loop, I know.

I have read the novels by the way... So I know how this all ends...
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 12:53   Link #891
OverMaster
Zok, Biff, Pow, Wham.
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Valencia, Venezuela
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBlanc View Post
Other than the 'fans', who is talking about Kadokawa putting out an overpriced DVD run of Endless Eight? Heck, the most I see them doing is putting out a special edition of the series collection with Endless Eight as an extra disc.

And hey, if you feel that strongly about it, don't buy the merchandising or DVDs.
Ah, the old and classic 'if you don't like it, don't complain, just don't buy it' strawman. And here I thought the purpose of a discussion was to include views from all sides of fandom.

The most annoying part of this, I think, is not so much the loop itself, which you just can skip by not watching the boring thing, but the knowledge they wasted perfectly good budget and effort that could have been put into more diverse episodes into basically reanimating and revoicing the same scenes again and again. It's just a waste of resources that could have been put to much better use, and now if the fanbase drops the show in an amount that is large enough, they won't get those chances again in the future.

Think of it: by now, the only way this can be somewhat salvaged is by having a truly mindblowing conclusion, and the sooner the better. And even so, it's doubtful it'll be worth more than it costed both to fandom and to the studios. A truly bad move no matter how you look at it.
OverMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 13:39   Link #892
fish eric
like to talk to fish?
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Does anyone want to talk about the episode? Im bored with the whole like/dislike that its still a loop. Its been 45 pages now. Some like it some hate it.


I wonder why Kyon doesn't say something, anything. It doesn't really matter. He could ask her to take a walk with him. He kissed her in S1 why is he being all shy now?


Also since Mikuru is from the future does she already know about the loop? Is this a predetermined event? Or right now does the time loop exist outside of the normal time plane.

How come no one ever asks Yuki "Yuki, would you mind telling me all this as soon as the next time loop starts so I can get a head start? Thanks" Yuki always does what Kyon tells her.

My favorite part of each of these episodes is Mikuru's voice when she calls Kyon in the middle of the night.

"k k kyoon kun.."

I know she is crying but she sounds so cute.
fish eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 13:48   Link #893
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I have read the novels by the way... So I know how this all ends...
No you don't. In all likelihood this is going to be totally different.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 13:57   Link #894
Dakota
disregard that (″°-°)ﺩ-
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mountains
Send a message via AIM to Dakota Send a message via MSN to Dakota
I'm bored at work okayyyy

Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
I wonder why Kyon doesn't say something, anything. It doesn't really matter. He could ask her to take a walk with him. He kissed her in S1 why is he being all shy now?


Also since Mikuru is from the future does she already know about the loop? Is this a predetermined event? Or right now does the time loop exist outside of the normal time plane.
1. Haruhi's common sense tell her that whole trip to closed space was a dream. She wishes (or possibly believes it) that it was true, and hence that chain of events happened. Also, in that same episode at the end, Kyon states that he plans on telling her everything, and that'll be the happily ever after part and they'll get all lovely dovey.

2. The Future Mikuru probably knew about the time loop. Think of the forth dimension as a line of events. Then it hits Aug. 31, and starts anew at Aug. 17. We all know that. Koizumi's statement that the future doesn't exist is somewhat inaccurate. It exists, but the fourth dimensional line of events hits (what we computer programmers like to call) a recursive function. Since Mikuru can (only) travel on this dimensional line (with TPDD), she cannot pass through that recursive function now that Haruhi has created it.

tl;dr Aug. 31st at midnight is a brick wall in time that reads "Back To Start!!!1"
__________________
Dakota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 13:58   Link #895
OkamiNoKaze
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
You have to give the translators of these subs props, especially for Mikuru's crying scenes, I don't know Japanese, but some times it just sounds like crying, can't make out any words, yet somehow the translators do and can translate it.
__________________
OkamiNoKaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 14:03   Link #896
Dakota
disregard that (″°-°)ﺩ-
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mountains
Send a message via AIM to Dakota Send a message via MSN to Dakota
Quote:
Originally Posted by OkamiNoKaze View Post
You have to give the translators of these subs props, especially for Mikuru's crying scenes, I don't know Japanese, but some times it just sounds like crying, can't make out any words, yet somehow the translators do and can translate it.
God bless a.f.k. and Mazui because they get it up in 6 hours

and nobody else
__________________
Dakota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 14:10   Link #897
-Sho-
~Omedetô~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
I don't watch K-on , but with your comments it seems that its a shitty anime ? or the design are shitty ?
Well , the current design are quite good in my opinion but yeah S1 is way better in the moment .
-Sho- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 14:11   Link #898
OceanBlue
Not an expert on things
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
Does anyone want to talk about the episode?
We already have. For 3 weeks.
OceanBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 14:19   Link #899
Mushi
Hopeless Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On bended knee asking Belldandy to marry me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
If you guys have some weird masochistic empowerment that allows you to actually enjoy these episodes... I don't have much to say.
It doesn't require any masochistic empowerment to enjoy, just a genuine appreciation for something out of the ordinary.
__________________
Mushi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-07-13, 14:21   Link #900
fish eric
like to talk to fish?
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
We already have. For 3 weeks.
hehe, you got me there
fish eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.