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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 05 Rating
Perfect 10 54 14.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 5.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 5.97%
7 out of 10 : Good 25 6.49%
6 out of 10 : Average 27 7.01%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 16 4.16%
4 out of 10 : Poor 10 2.60%
3 out of 10 : Bad 8 2.08%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 7 1.82%
1 out of 10 : Painful 195 50.65%
Voters: 385. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-14, 23:13   Link #1001
Sackett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish eric View Post
wonder why in only one episode they did justice to Mikuru's chest.
My understanding is that usually the yukata belt covers (and thus binds) the chest. (I know there was a joke in Lucky Star about a yukata making a flat chested woman look better).

In episode 2 the joke was that it was improperly tied- probably because Haruhi wanted some Mikuru fanservice (which is why Mikuru was particularly embarrassed that iteration).
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Old 2009-07-14, 23:53   Link #1002
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Wow. 1000+ posts already. I wonder if this Haruhi season will have an episode to surpass Code Geass R2 ep 25's post count.

Also, I'm curious to see how the next episode is handled. It'll be extremely amusing if it is animated "Lucky Star style", "Clannad style", or even outsourced to SHAFT.
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Last edited by Tempester; 2009-07-15 at 00:31.
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Old 2009-07-15, 00:22   Link #1003
Ithekro
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The thing is, we still can't predict what they are going to throw at us next. It will likely be "just the same thing" again. But if things are different, they will surprise us. Either they will end the looping, or they could do one of the obvious not ending loops that is different than the others...but then we'd know it wasn't the end...wouldn't we? They've already surprised us by making this story loop so many times.
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Old 2009-07-15, 00:26   Link #1004
panzerfan
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Well, think of it this way. KyoAni has already made the call 4 weeks ago perhaps regarding what's to have happened, so we pretty much have a pre-determined event that is only a crossroad because we're not given enough information about what's to come. The irony is, just when you think that "maybe there's the possibility of say more endless Eight", KyoAni, who has more information has already decided and has done the work... so you thinking of this possibility has no sway to what actually shall happen.

So, the chance of looping or not is subjective, but the reality that KyoAni has already animated the episode is an objective result, and the two don't really have to tie together at all~

let us all cheer at a case of KyoAni's waveform collapse, done before the viewers know of anything. So.. "What is observed certainly exists; about what is not observed we are still free to make suitable assumptions. We use that freedom to avoid paradoxes." (von Weizsäcker)
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Old 2009-07-15, 01:01   Link #1005
aegisofrime
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Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
your math is a little off likely~! The running joke is that Nagato is 597 years old for some time, making her one of the oldest Saimoe contestant ever.

@likely: 15,498 cycles x 14 days in a cycle / 365.25 days in a year == 594.036961 years spent. At 15,513 cycles, it's 594.61191 years. You made Nagato look some 19-20 years younger there.
And of course, the other half of the joke is that before Endless Eight, Nagato is one of the youngest Saimoe contestants ever ^_^
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Old 2009-07-15, 01:23   Link #1006
risingstar3110
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Well the effect of Endless Eight is..... one week ago 90% of me believe it will end the coming week. Now it's 50-50
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Old 2009-07-15, 01:59   Link #1007
ac195
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I believe the light novel readers are more annoyed by this. If you haven't read them, you don't know how good Disappearance is, you can't really say "Get on with it already" or be disappointed that it won't come at all. You'll just focus on what is presented.
Dunno about that... I thought most of the light novel readers would be more understanding of what's been going on. I mean, those fans have had more exposure to the crazy Haruhi world and it's antics.

I mean come on, can't take a little more Endless Eight? How long has it been since the first time the 10th volume was delayed? Well, it could be worse... at least the author hasn't died (other book series have had it worse...).

So rage/chill... do w/e you want... but I'm just gonna wait for the season to end and then make my own call
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:05   Link #1008
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Dunno about that... I thought most of the light novel readers would be more understanding of what's been going on. I mean, those fans have had more exposure to the crazy Haruhi world and it's antics.

I mean come on, can't take a little more Endless Eight? How long has it been since the first time the 10th volume was delayed? Well, it could be worse... at least the author hasn't died (other book series have had it worse...).

So rage/chill... do w/e you want... but I'm just gonna wait for the season to end and then make my own call
I agree with you. I read the novel and thought that E8 was a fun but relatively weak short story in the series. The fact that length was a factor in the novel and it gets resolved right away took away the emotional impact of the time loop.

For KyoAni to make it this infamous and meaningful makes me think they're putting some extra energy into the series. It's frustrating for some people and I understand that, but I praise them for developing the feel of the series. Now of course I'll stand corrected if they really do drop the ball like some people think they will, but I'm optimistic that they appreciate how well loved this series is and will do a good job with the next stories.
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:25   Link #1009
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in which chapter does endless eight occur in the novels? for those who havent read?
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:34   Link #1010
ac195
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Volume 5: The Rampage of Suzumiya Haruhi

I think it's the first short story in that book.
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Old 2009-07-15, 02:51   Link #1011
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Originally Posted by Airman8 View Post
I agree with you. I read the novel and thought that E8 was a fun but relatively weak short story in the series. The fact that length was a factor in the novel and it gets resolved right away took away the emotional impact of the time loop.

For KyoAni to make it this infamous and meaningful makes me think they're putting some extra energy into the series. It's frustrating for some people and I understand that, but I praise them for developing the feel of the series. Now of course I'll stand corrected if they really do drop the ball like some people think they will, but I'm optimistic that they appreciate how well loved this series is and will do a good job with the next stories.
The problem is that our main character and narrator in both the anime and light novels is Kyon. We are seeing everything through his perspective, so if we are to adjust our perspectives to match up with his, it would be impossible unless we saw this the first time...

What I mean is that the characters themselves, besides Yuki, feel like they are living life normally and are relatively unaware of all the same tasks they did in previous cycles. They get the deja vu feelings, but that is about it.

So like I said, we can only feel exactly the way Kyon feels, in the episode of these cycles. Otherwise our perspectives become more in line with Yuki (Who is relatively unconcerned about ever fixing the loop in the first place and thus already makes it impossible to feel like she does unless you want to just observe Haruhi and Kyon over and over and over again).
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Old 2009-07-15, 03:02   Link #1012
ac195
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
The problem is that our main character and narrator in both the anime and light novels is Kyon. We are seeing everything through his perspective, so if we are to adjust our perspectives to match up with his, it would be impossible unless we saw this the first time...

What I mean is that the characters themselves, besides Yuki, feel like they are living life normally and are relatively unaware of all the same tasks they did in previous cycles. They get the deja vu feelings, but that is about it.

So like I said, we can only feel exactly the way Kyon feels, in the episode of these cycles. Otherwise our perspectives become more in line with Yuki (Who is relatively unconcerned about ever fixing the loop in the first place and thus already makes it impossible to feel like she does unless you want to just observe Haruhi and Kyon over and over and over again).
I've read this post a bunch of times and still don't really understand what you're trying to say... If you're saying that it was impossible for the light novel to produce the same impact that these consecutive loops are producing... then, I'd agree with you on that point...

If you're saying that we can only understand the way Kyon's feels because that is the perspective from which the story is told, regardless of it being the anime or light novel... then I'd have to disagree.
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Old 2009-07-15, 03:09   Link #1013
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
I've read this post a bunch of times and still don't really understand what you're trying to say... If you're saying that it was impossible for the light novel to produce the same impact that these consecutive loops are producing... then, I'd agree with you on that point...

If you're saying that we can only understand the way Kyon's feels because that is the perspective from which the story is told, regardless of it being the anime or light novel... then I'd have to disagree.
I was responding to his comment about it being resolved too quickly. He is implying that animating more loops serves this short story in Haruhi much better by adding more feel to it.

Well I disagree, because you can't really grasp what is going through Kyon's head exactly if we look at all these loops animated over and over again since
Kyon himself feels like he is living life like he always does (Except for the deja vu feeling). If we see multiple loops, we have already put distance between Kyon's perspective and our perspective.
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Old 2009-07-15, 03:46   Link #1014
Ithekro
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Perhaps this isn't to see Kyon's perspective for once, but to suffer the pain of the loops. This could be seen as a dare situation and Kyon just doesn't have the perspective to see it all, but he can imagine it I think. In the end, this could be Kyon's mental image of what it must have been like, repeating the same events, over and over, and over again. That might (in story) be why we haven't seen any event changes, because the final Kyon didn't experiance any of the really different worlds.

However that could all change this week...or the next....or the next....
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Old 2009-07-15, 04:14   Link #1015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aulzon View Post


Spoiler for what she is really saying:
Strange goals these companies apparently have now.

Anyway speaking of which if there's an emotional impact that's supposed to be a part of this arc (and it doesn't really strike me as there is but for one character) that is so all important then I don't feel like they've accomplished it at all. The fact that it's just the exact same events happening over and over in the episode and that none of it ever gets reflected on in the characters because they never have the time to really react before the loop resets, so there really is no room for the emotional impact in the first place doesn't help either. Maybe they could have just once shown the characters reacting as things lead up to the inevitability and maybe a hint of panic or despair instead of just Kyon giving his wishy washy line about not doing homework it could have given it that emotional oomph, but I bet they don't ever do anything like that and it's just a blunt abrupt end to the reset this week so that they can have their whole people feeling relieved that it's finally over gimmick while having drawn attention to the show. In any case it's amazing that they've gone over this for four episodes now and yet haven't been able to pull much of anything new out of it in the process of each reset. That was something that Higurashi actually managed to do real well, but it feels like Kyoani has done absolutely nothing new with the majority of this arc repetition. What a waste, that's really what it feels like. I mean I could completely imagine that there's some high genius meta referential level kick in all of this like Kyoani is supposed to always deliver something like that every time (as if), but based on what I actually do know and what I've seen I think I've finally arrived at a conclusion of just what is really going on.

I can't believe I didn't realize this before, but it's as simple as executive production level choice that they wanted to use as a gimmick to draw attention back to the show now that it's airing (after all they didn't have much of an advertising run), but other than at least doing a great job at that (we're talking from a purely commercial publicity standpoint which admitedly Kyoani and Kadokawa actually are geniuses at when they work together if that's to be celebrated highly in these circles, which it seems it is at least in their case. Not so much others), they clearly haven't really thought out all that well how it would be received from a quality and Haruhi fan standpoint looking for more experiences and stories with the characters and getting to know them even more. Obviously they know that their are those fanboys that will defend them no matter what and so it's okay, but what about the other group that is actually just looking for a good show with the same flair and character auspicion that the first season had going on pretty damn well. It had it's own style, but it never felt like it was just about the gimmicks because it brought intrigue to the characters and how they reacted to the situations and people that they interacted with. Thing is this season it's not working well on that front and I don't see how it ever could given just how far Kadokawa seems to have reached into the franchise with a purely commerical interest now (it's been proven as successful and a good cash cow). See that's the problem when you mix commercialism in that heavily with your products like Kadokawa/Kyoani does, it's practical from a business standpoint, but it causes quality to go down on the entertainment and overall artistic standpoint because it places them second behind what draws commercial attention to the product and the brand. In some cases though it even just flat out ignores the idea of solid storytelling and character progession and just goes straight for the commercial gimmick. That's what's happening here in my opinion and I kind of hope it's just this arc otherwise we will be in for a strange ride this season IMO.

And okay sure these episodes still are animated well and feature new footage each time, but from a character progression standpoint it's a miserable failure. It's wasteful. If I just wanted to play spot the difference then I'd get the menu at my local restaurant and do it. I came for a bit more here (and I never asked for much from this franchise) and yet it's still managing to disappoint. Really hope they change it or can at least do one iteration that actually adds something new to the whole experience. And I mean before it ends so as to at least partially vindicate the idea that they apparently needed to use this many episodes to theoretically accomplish one little thing with one specific character.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2009-07-15 at 04:57.
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Old 2009-07-15, 05:17   Link #1016
ac195
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Man, I really feel like listening to Gorillaz for some reason... Circles would be perfect right around now...
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Old 2009-07-15, 05:53   Link #1017
mokuseimaru
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Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
Well, think of it this way. KyoAni has already made the call 4 weeks ago perhaps regarding what's to have happened, so we pretty much have a pre-determined event that is only a crossroad because we're not given enough information about what's to come. The irony is, just when you think that "maybe there's the possibility of say more endless Eight", KyoAni, who has more information has already decided and has done the work... so you thinking of this possibility has no sway to what actually shall happen.

So, the chance of looping or not is subjective, but the reality that KyoAni has already animated the episode is an objective result, and the two don't really have to tie together at all~

let us all cheer at a case of KyoAni's waveform collapse, done before the viewers know of anything. So.. "What is observed certainly exists; about what is not observed we are still free to make suitable assumptions. We use that freedom to avoid paradoxes." (von Weizsäcker)
This is not entirely the case. Let us suppose there is an episode 5 that doesn't end the cycle (which, unfortunately, is what many of us are expecting), that episode has an objective existence in the real world. It has been put on magnetic tape or reduced to the electrons on some digital storage device, but it either case it has an objective existence. Now, whether or not such an episode, should it exist, will in fact be aired and made publicly known is a different matter. If this episode exists, the good people at Kyoani and their sponsors could, in response to the overwhelmingly negative response to their stunt, relent and simply skip to the final iteration. And, though such an occurrence is perhaps a bit far fetched because of the amount of money both parties would have put into such an episode, there is also a chance that some random, decent hearted person at Kyoani might take it upon himself to destroy such an episode for the greater good of all humankind. Again, fairly unlikely, but one can only hope there is at least one person at Kyoani with a shred of decency.
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Old 2009-07-15, 06:00   Link #1018
Takamura Mamoru
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I mean come on, can't take a little more Endless Eight?
I can, I don't want to.
I barely care about this new airing anymore. Call me when they get on with the story.
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Old 2009-07-15, 06:03   Link #1019
panzerfan
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Unfortunately, what mokuseimaru and I have said here are all subjective observations based on the information available in our hands. I have a set of wave function, just as mokuseimaru does, and both holds truth given the different subset of information that we are working with and considering in our own 'localized' view. The interesting thing is, the moment that the episode is aired, we would have waveform collapse according to Copenhagen view as we'd be shown what is to rightfully exist...

The sad thing is, our knowledge of the system only permits us to say that state (|loop>) and state (|termination>) are the choices in the hands of the animators and that the outcome will be relayed to us by broadcast. The probability of (|loop>)+(|termination>)== 1. Whether or not if a NICE BOAT comes along to delay the transmission of the result is of no consequence to the decided outcome...

By the way, you cannot have (|loop>) && (|termination>), it is (|loop>) XOR (|termination>) when we see it as TV broadcast schedule has not allowed for (|loop>) && (|termination>) to be shown after all.

so... let nature run its course, ok...?
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2009-07-15 at 06:26.
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Old 2009-07-15, 06:14   Link #1020
Sheba
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Man, I really feel like listening to Gorillaz for some reason... Circles would be perfect right around now...
Tell me if someone have a song about poor horses turned into thin bone powder and tartar steak.
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