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Old 2009-07-09, 13:00   Link #1
marvelB
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General Logia Discussion Thread (manga)

Widely considered to be the most powerful of the three types of Devil Fruit, and rightly so: Logias allow the user to control the power of nature itself. Along with the destructive powers they receive, Logias have the added benefit of being practically invulnerable to most forms of attack (with the exception of a certain black-bearded Shichibukai, that is ). Still, despite them having broken abilities, Logias definitely make interesting use of their powers. I'm thinking of how Eneru used his thunder powers to manipulate the gold in Maxim, or how Kizaru used mirrors to teleport around Sabaody. Hopefully, we'll see future Logias use their powers in more creative ways, as well.



Anyways, one particular Logia I'm expecting to see in the future is a stone-based power (I'm actually curious to see whether or not this fruit will also render the user vulnerable like with Blackbeard's fruit). I'm also hoping that we get a metal Logia in the series at some point, because I feel that would make for an extremely versatile power. Lastly, I'd also like to see some sort of plant-based Logia, specifically something like a tree tree fruit (I'd imagine it would be somewhat similar to Robin's power, but much more deadly since the user can sprout actual plants, rather than limbs....).



So, talk about anything Logia here!
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Old 2009-07-09, 14:52   Link #2
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Actually..
I think Logia's may be the weakest of the 3...
Giving its vulnerability to Haki...
Zoans and Paramecia's don't have their powers so easily canceled out like Logia's do when confronted with Haki...
This would explain why Blackbeard's ability makes him one of the strongest and rarest..
Because his power isn't really applied same as other Logia's

Last edited by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk; 2009-07-09 at 18:09.
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Old 2009-07-09, 15:15   Link #3
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
Zoans and Paramecia's don't have their powers so easily canceled out like Logia's do...
This would explain why Blackbeard's ability makes him one of the strongest and rarest..
Because his power isn't really applied same as other Logia's
thats one reason why luffy will ultimately be one of the strongest, a rubber user with haki, probably works out better then any logia...

blackbeards power has pretty much haki abilities built into it, with the ability to have attacks phase through him missing
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Old 2009-07-09, 15:34   Link #4
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It's true that some people can use haki to fight and damage people with logia fruits, but that doesn't guarantee that they will win.

Other than that, I'm still waiting to see if the common elemental powers of water and wind show up. I would also like to see a metal logia, which for some reason makes an image of T-1000 pop up in my head. And I would think a crystal/mineral logia would be interesting, since the person could, theoretically, make themselves immune to seastone.
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Old 2009-07-09, 16:56   Link #5
james0246
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Because Logias are so strong, I have never really cared for them. They are the abilities that contain the greatest amount of glitz and sparkle, but at the same time, they are the most simplistic (often resulting in the same basic attacks, just with different elements), and consequently the least interesting (at least for me).
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Old 2009-07-09, 18:55   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
Actually..
I think Logia's may be the weakest of the 3...
Giving its vulnerability to Haki...
Zoans and Paramecia's don't have their powers so easily canceled out like Logia's do when confronted with Haki...
This would explain why Blackbeard's ability makes him one of the strongest and rarest..
Because his power isn't really applied same as other Logia's
Actually Haki affects all of them the same.

Just look at how Luffy takes full damage from Haki attacks despite being rubber. Any attack with sufficient Haki can hit through any ability and not just Logia.

So Logia is still fundamentally stronger than Paramecia or Zoan.
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Old 2009-07-09, 21:11   Link #7
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^To add: Logia's are like starting a game with your stats already almost maxed, whereas Zoan up overall stats (especially physical) quite a bit, but nowhere near as much as a Logia, and Paramecia up a few specific stats a lot (sometimes even almost maxing a specific stat), but leave many other stats alone.
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Old 2009-07-10, 07:34   Link #8
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Actually Haki affects all of them the same.

Just look at how Luffy takes full damage from Haki attacks despite being rubber. Any attack with sufficient Haki can hit through any ability and not just Logia.

So Logia is still fundamentally stronger than Paramecia or Zoan.
Yeah. Thats True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^To add: Logia's are like starting a game with your stats already almost maxed, whereas Zoan up overall stats (especially physical) quite a bit, but nowhere near as much as a Logia, and Paramecia up a few specific stats a lot (sometimes even almost maxing a specific stat), but leave many other stats alone.
This is why I was thinking Logia's may be the weakest...
Because they automatically gained tremendous power..
And for it to be so easily countered from a little taste of Haki..
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Old 2009-07-10, 10:23   Link #9
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
This is why I was thinking Logia's may be the weakest...
Because they automatically gained tremendous power..
And for it to be so easily countered from a little taste of Haki..
There seems to be a misconception here that logia powers are canceled out through the use of Haki. It doesn't work that way. From what we've seen, all Haki does is allow one to actually be able to physically harm a logia user. Remember when Rayleigh kicked Kizaru's leg to divert his lazer away from Zoro? Rayleigh did make actual physical contact with Kizaru, but Kizaru's light powers were still active, which is why his lazer beam got shot off into the background.

Then there's also the part where Rayleigh cut Kizaru on the cheek. In doing so, he also managed to slice off Kizaru's arm (Chapter 512 - Page 7). If Haki really does shut off devil fruit powers (which it doesn't), Kizaru would've become a normal human right when his arm was cut off, and consequently he would've been bleeding profusely and lost his arm for good.

The only things known to completely shut off devil fruit powers, are Blackbeard's darkness fruit (when he grabs hold of them) and sea stone.

@marvelB - Kizaru doesn't need to use mirrors to teleport. He can bounce himself off of any surface it seems, as can be seen when he uses the mangrove tree itself in Chapter 512 - Page 7.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2009-07-10 at 11:07.
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Old 2009-07-10, 11:39   Link #10
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
There seems to be a misconception here that logia powers are canceled out through the use of Haki. It doesn't work that way. From what we've seen, all Haki does is allow one to actually be able to physically harm a logia user. Remember when Rayleigh kicked Kizaru's leg to divert his lazer away from Zoro? Rayleigh did make actual physical contact with Kizaru, but Kizaru's light powers were still active, which is why his lazer beam got shot off into the background.

Then there's also the part where Rayleigh cut Kizaru on the cheek. In doing so, he also managed to slice off Kizaru's arm (Chapter 512 - Page 7). If Haki really does shut off devil fruit powers (which it doesn't), Kizaru would've become a normal human right when his arm was cut off, and consequently he would've been bleeding profusely and lost his arm for good.

The only things known to completely shut off devil fruit powers, are Blackbeard's darkness fruit (when he grabs hold of them) and sea stone.
Yeah you right.
Wasn't thinking str8.
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Old 2009-07-10, 14:04   Link #11
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
Yeah you right.
Wasn't thinking str8.
Actually, I just realized that I made a slight error in my analysis. Disregard the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Then there's also the part where Rayleigh cut Kizaru on the cheek. In doing so, he also managed to slice off Kizaru's arm (Chapter 512 - Page 7). If Haki really does shut off devil fruit powers (which it doesn't), Kizaru would've become a normal human right when his arm was cut off, and consequently he would've been bleeding profusely and lost his arm for good.
Even though it really looks like it, Rayleigh couldn't have cut off Kizaru's arm. If Kizaru's cheek was cut, then how come his arm wasn't severed in that very same slash? Why was it that only one area was affected (his cheek) and not the other (his arm)? That being said, only his cheek was cut. My bad .

The point still stands though, that Haki can physically damage anyone regardless of what devil fruit they possess. It just doesn't disable powers.
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Old 2009-07-10, 14:15   Link #12
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Yes, the word 'disable' or 'cancel' is not really correct.

The characters who were hit with a Haki attack obviously still have their abilities activated, Kizaru's light saber for example, the ability isn't disabled or canceled.

I prefer to say that Haki ignores the abilities and makes their attacks go through and work.

I've always wondered though, if a Logia user gets amputated, maybe by a seastone weapon or by Haki, can his body part return to element form and regenerate himself?
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Old 2009-07-10, 14:33   Link #13
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Makes me wonder what happened to Crocodile's arm.
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Old 2009-07-10, 19:06   Link #14
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Yes, the word 'disable' or 'cancel' is not really correct.

The characters who were hit with a Haki attack obviously still have their abilities activated, Kizaru's light saber for example, the ability isn't disabled or canceled.

I prefer to say that Haki ignores the abilities and makes their attacks go through and work.
Well...
I believe Haki to be simply, a strong spirit and a strong will...
That manifest on a physical level..
Which makes their attack connect even though Logia's are supposed to be untouchable..

Quote:
I've always wondered though, if a Logia user gets amputated, maybe by a seastone weapon or by Haki, can his body part return to element form and regenerate himself?
That never really crossed my mind actually...
Thats something to think about.
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Old 2009-07-11, 01:54   Link #15
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I've always wondered though, if a Logia user gets amputated, maybe by a seastone weapon or by Haki, can his body part return to element form and regenerate himself?
That's an interesting question. I'm going to guess that initially with the seastone, the user won't be able to do anything because of immediate effects, but over a short period of time away from the seastone, the power does return and the limb would be replaced.
As for with Haki, it's already been said that it merely allows for one to get hurt by regular, physical attacks so my guess with this is that there would be no effect and the LDF user would be able to regenerate without a problem, as Haki doesn't cancel out the powers.

But this is just speculation on my part and if anything, I'm probably missing out on something because details just fly over my head, especially with a long running series like OP.

Edit:
Actually, after giving this some more thought, it's a bit more puzzling (especially at 3 AM):
My Haki guess wouldn't make as much sense if you apply some sort of nearly instant fatal wound such as impalement of the vital organs or in the head/neck or with decapitation.
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Old 2009-07-11, 04:46   Link #16
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Yea, either way, Seastone or Haki, it will do damage to the Logia user, so an amputation, impalement or a simple slash wound, would still be real damage.

Seeing that Enel can actually die and his Lightning ability still works, shocking himself back to life, I'm thinking that a dead body part may actually retain its Logia ability. Enel himself probably can never die from heart stopping or maybe even brain death. He can probably shock his heart into function all the time and reconnect dead brain cells.
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Old 2009-07-11, 05:23   Link #17
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Before we got to know Haki or even Kairoseki (seastones) all a person could do again Logia was finding their "weakness". Crocodile had water and ex-movie-marine had flour, Enel himself had Luffy as an weakness XD
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Old 2009-07-11, 05:26   Link #18
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So Kizaru pretty much brought the reputation of logias back to top with his lasers.There will be of course some other weirdly monsterous logia waiting ahead so that Luffy can finally cast his haki out.Here are some of my predictions about weird ones :

- Life, Death
- Blood
- Nuclear, atomic, molecules, disease, virus or other sci-fici stuff like black holes
- Time
- Earth,Wind,Water style
- Technopathy (well Kidd did that mostly.Still it would be more awesome if one can create metal cable whips out of his body, self destruction, recreating himself with other metal parts around and such)
- Matter/Reality altering, bending psychic devil fruits


Speaking of Logias and Kizaru, here is an alternate Kizaru final attack
Spoiler for ?:
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Old 2009-07-11, 06:01   Link #19
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Originally Posted by shankss View Post
So Kizaru pretty much brought the reputation of logias back to top with his lasers.There will be of course some other weirdly monsterous logia waiting ahead so that Luffy can finally cast his haki out.Here are some of my predictions about weird ones :

- Life, Death
- Blood
- Nuclear, atomic, molecules, disease, virus or other sci-fici stuff like black holes
- Time
- Earth,Wind,Water style
- Technopathy (well Kidd did that mostly.Still it would be more awesome if one can create metal cable whips out of his body, self destruction, recreating himself with other metal parts around and such)
- Matter/Reality altering, bending psychic devil fruits


Speaking of Logias and Kizaru, here is an alternate Kizaru final attack
Not all 'nature' falls under Logia.

Life/Death, we have Brook's ability which falls under Paramecia.

Blood, disease and viruses, we have Magellan's Poison and Ivanov's Hormones which both fall under Paramecia.

Blackholes is essentially Blackbeard's darkness ability.

For time, telepathy, matter/reality altering, psychic, besides Kidd that you mentioned, Foxy's Noro Photons, Kuma's Paws, were under Paramecia as well. Every reality bending ability will fall under Paramecia, because its a property more than nature. Actually if its an ability that bends reality, its already going against nature, so its not natural and not a Logia.

Even some more natural abilities like Basil Hawkin's Straw, Moria's Shadows are under Paramecia.

Oda's idea of natural elements are more likely 'RPG magical elements' and the fundamental elements in philosophical classic elements.

Light and Darkness, Lightning and Ice that are usually present in RPGs and other games.

In the West, Earth, Fire, Wind, Water and sometimes 'Aether', is recognised. In Asia and Japan, we have Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, Earth and sometimes 'Void/Sky/Heaven'. From these elements, Water, Earth, Wind, Aether, Metal, Wood and Void are still unused.

Anything more complex than these fundamental elements seem to fall into Paramecia.

Your idea of Kizaru's final attack has been taken by Enel already though

Enel's Al Thor is simply an electron particle beam. If Kizaru probably can do the same, with a photon laser. Enel is lightning fast, but still half as fast as Kizaru who has the absolute speed of the universe. Speed of light is 186000 mph, Lightning is estimated at half of that at 93000 mph.
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I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

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Old 2009-07-11, 06:32   Link #20
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Yea, either way, Seastone or Haki, it will do damage to the Logia user, so an amputation, impalement or a simple slash wound, would still be real damage.

Seeing that Enel can actually die and his Lightning ability still works, shocking himself back to life, I'm thinking that a dead body part may actually retain its Logia ability. Enel himself probably can never die from heart stopping or maybe even brain death. He can probably shock his heart into function all the time and reconnect dead brain cells.
What chapter was this???
I don't recall Enel shocking himself back to life...
That being said... Logia's might actually be more interesting than I initially thought..

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In the West, Earth, Fire, Wind, Water and sometimes 'Aether', is recognised. In Asia and Japan, we have Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, Earth and sometimes 'Void/Sky/Heaven'. From these elements, Water, Earth, Wind, Aether, Metal, Wood and Void are still unused.
Aether and Void are the same thing right???
I think Water is already covered by Aoijiki with his ice ability
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