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Old 2010-01-13, 07:45   Link #161
Nemuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnights View Post
If you remove Aki Sora u should remove kiss x sis, gantz, hellsing 7 too or u are a hypocrite. Aki sora is NOT hentai. Imo.
Its not constructive just to sprout a few series then define it as not hentai.. We're not even arguing or debating about using sex in anime. But simply the underlining value this anime is offering.

With the same definition you seem to be throwing out you could even pass off shoujo sect as a non hentai if they just edit a few scene. And what exactly does Hellsing and Gantz have in common with Aki sora? Have you read the manga? or are you just basing your arguement on the uses of sex in anime. My view here is the relationship, the physical relationship is the selling point and not a supporting factor to the characters development.
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Old 2010-01-13, 07:50   Link #162
DragoZERO
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This doesn't compare to Kiss x Sis. This has an actual sex scene - movements and all. Kiss x Sis is innocent stuff by comparison, they just show more than is conventionally shown.

I've never seen Hellsing or Gantz so I can't say much on the subject. Are they aired on television or are they too, direct to video?
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Old 2010-01-13, 13:08   Link #163
Forbin
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Originally Posted by Fnights View Post
Speaking in general if you remove Aki Sora with the actual policy u should remove kiss x sis, gantz, hellsing 7 too. Aki Sora is NOT hentai, is ecchi romance anime. Imo.
Aki sora shows the sex and the completion of the act.
Gantz does not.

If they follow the manga then Aki Sora will have sex in EVERY episode
Gantz has it in 1 episode.

Kiss x Sis does not have any sex.

Does hellsing 7? I dunno, never saw it. I HAVE seen all episodes of the TV hellsing and I don't remember any sex in it.

The CLOSEST anime that has sex in it every episode and is NOT a hentai is Futari Ecchi (Step up Love Story). And that is more of a documentary of sex then sex. They don't have
Spoiler for For Aki sora manga:

Aki sora will have all of those.
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Old 2010-01-14, 03:15   Link #164
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Originally Posted by Nemuru View Post
Read the manga but even so let’s make a hentai but we won’t call it hentai because it can sell more that way. This boggles me a lot, but it’s more along the line of plot and story. So if I create a story just with different couples having sex each episode and clearly avoiding showing the censored bit you can accept it as not hentai.
Exactly so. Here the definition of hentai is almost axiomatic, like how we define a right angle to be 90 deg.. not sometimes 95, 92, 87 degs etc.

Quote:
Does off screen tentacle rape fits into your definition too?
Its probably my subjective view but hentai are aim to arouse the audience with sex scene and build a shallow story around that theme. The main issue here is asking yourself what is this series trying to sell.

I wouldn't mind if the series was more Nana like protrayled the characters in an adult relationship but you must be deluding yourself to think otherwise so clearly
Quite simply, "what is this series trying to sell" is not how you define hentai, or even the ratings most american movies for that matter. Because when you drill down, every single ecchi anime is trying to sell the same thing wrapped around in some story, some are just more explicit than others. Trying to delist an anime based on what you think it's point is or whatever subjective issues are involved is very slippery slope.

Quote:
Spoiler for spoilers:
You know Basic Instinct had an even more raunchy scene during intercourse involving that exact same act between two people. It was rated R, not X. Now you might argue that it was because it's a more serious show about relationships. Well, what about American Pie, which btw popularized the term MILF? Even in the unrated version, which is more raunchy with exactly the same content, story, etc as the R-rated version but with less edited parts in certains scenes is stil not rated X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin View Post
Aki sora shows the sex and the completion of the act.
Gantz does not.

If they follow the manga then Aki Sora will have sex in EVERY episode
Gantz has it in 1 episode.

Kiss x Sis does not have any sex.

Does hellsing 7? I dunno, never saw it. I HAVE seen all episodes of the TV hellsing and I don't remember any sex in it.

The CLOSEST anime that has sex in it every episode and is NOT a hentai is Futari Ecchi (Step up Love Story). And that is more of a documentary of sex then sex. They don't have
Spoiler for For Aki sora manga:

Aki sora will have all of those.
.. and how does that make it hentai? Again it's like the difference between an X-rated show and an R-rated or even uncut unrated show not mandated to be sold as adult (see American Pie 1,2 example above). But more importantly it's not sold as such because it doesn't meet the criteria for hentai. animesuki is a site dedicated to all animation released as anime minus hentai, not anime-as-filtered-through-subjective-values.

(and if I recall Gantz does show the complete act just hiding the genitalia)
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Old 2010-01-14, 05:33   Link #165
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how i wish to have an older sister like aki, letting me bang her everyday
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Old 2010-01-14, 10:13   Link #166
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Originally Posted by npcomplete View Post
Exactly so. Here the definition of hentai is almost axiomatic, like how we define a right angle to be 90 deg.. not sometimes 95, 92, 87 degs etc.

Quite simply, "what is this series trying to sell" is not how you define hentai, or even the ratings most american movies for that matter. Because when you drill down, every single ecchi anime is trying to sell the same thing wrapped around in some story, some are just more explicit than others. Trying to delist an anime based on what you think it's point is or whatever subjective issues are involved is very slippery slope.
What a series is selling is a focal distinction or tag that a series genre belongs too. We can clearly identify whats shounen, ecchi, yuri, yaoi or shoujo based on content only. With hentai itís not a brainer to conclude its main theme is sex. My general argument is Aki Sora is no different from other hentai but clearly censoring something is a logical method of defining what hentai here. Analogy can be terrible sometimes but from my view there isnít much difference with speeding over a 50km zone going 100km or 60km. presumable Aki sora may have created a loophole in the system and I wouldnít be surprised if more hard core ecchi material will use the same method to promote themselves as anime.

In essence hentai are not X rated at least according to the American and Australian system of Rating. Both countries counted hentai as adult series with and R+ 18 rated attached to each hentai series published, so any argument over X or R rated is superficial. Even without further discussion I can see you agree that Aki Sora is at least an adult series. Was the simple focus of delisting hentai show based on content or taking in precaution considering the demographic involve with animesuki. Maybe Iím out of line but I donít think there is a warning message within AS citing the follow content are requiring you to be above 18 years or older or maybe thatís ignored as all material is allowed aslong as it doesnít have a hentai label. Unless you can somehow persuade me that a 15+ viewing tag is acceptable using Aki Sora content. I, myself have a hard time even mustering any courage to recommend this series to anyone not over 18. At least in my view itís an 18+ series.
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Old 2010-01-14, 11:24   Link #167
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Originally Posted by DummyInc View Post
how i wish to have an older sister like aki, letting me bang her everyday
You meant how I wish I have such a sexy lovely older sister...

Cuz I can just imagine having an ugly fat sister trying to ...... ukes:
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Old 2010-01-14, 12:40   Link #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
You meant how I wish I have such a sexy lovely older sister...

Cuz I can just imagine having an ugly fat sister trying to ...... ukes:
Maybe that's what he likes. One can't know someone's taste.
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Old 2010-01-14, 13:39   Link #169
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by Forever View Post
You meant how I wish I have such a sexy lovely older sister...

Cuz I can just imagine having an ugly fat sister trying to ...... ukes:
He said "like Aki" thus inferring the physical attractiveness of said sister.
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Old 2010-01-14, 19:13   Link #170
billborden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemuru View Post
What a series is selling is a focal distinction or tag that a series genre belongs too. We can clearly identify whats shounen, ecchi, yuri, yaoi or shoujo based on content only. With hentai itís not a brainer to conclude its main theme is sex. My general argument is Aki Sora is no different from other hentai but clearly censoring something is a logical method of defining what hentai here. Analogy can be terrible sometimes but from my view there isnít much difference with speeding over a 50km zone going 100km or 60km. presumable Aki sora may have created a loophole in the system and I wouldnít be surprised if more hard core ecchi material will use the same method to promote themselves as anime.

In essence hentai are not X rated at least according to the American and Australian system of Rating. Both countries counted hentai as adult series with and R+ 18 rated attached to each hentai series published, so any argument over X or R rated is superficial. Even without further discussion I can see you agree that Aki Sora is at least an adult series. Was the simple focus of delisting hentai show based on content or taking in precaution considering the demographic involve with animesuki. Maybe Iím out of line but I donít think there is a warning message within AS citing the follow content are requiring you to be above 18 years or older or maybe thatís ignored as all material is allowed aslong as it doesnít have a hentai label. Unless you can somehow persuade me that a 15+ viewing tag is acceptable using Aki Sora content. I, myself have a hard time even mustering any courage to recommend this series to anyone not over 18. At least in my view itís an 18+ series.
Exactly. Part of the problem is that, in America, the meaning of X-rated (not an actual rating, just an indication that the MPAA would not give a rating to a show) changed drastically after the release of "Deep Throat", then again after the creation of the NC17 rating. Correct or not, we associate Hentai with X-rated, without realizing that modern X-rated content is not what was intended by the original rating. Yes, "Aki Sora" is not "Bible Black", but neither is "Emmanuelle" "Red-hot Cheerleader Sluts 3"; yet neither "Emmanuelle" nor "Aki Sora" is appropriate for an audience under 18. Compromise, keep the discussion forum and skip the torrent. That way, you won't make anyone happy, but you will keep most people satisfied.
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Old 2010-01-15, 00:18   Link #171
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Originally Posted by billborden View Post
yet neither "Emmanuelle" nor "Aki Sora" is appropriate for an audience under 18. Compromise, keep the discussion forum and skip the torrent. That way, you won't make anyone happy, but you will keep most people satisfied.
It is interesting how sex and sexuality always comes under fire from people but violence generally does not. There are plenty of anime listed here and elsewhere that are definitely not for children because they are extremely violent, and yet you'll see few cries of "don't list this" because hey...it's just a guys head being chopped off with blood flowing everywhere, who cares right? Everyone loves a good beheading!

Compare this to "there's nipples, ban it!" or "she/he looks too young, pedo!" and I scratch my head at the double standard. Certainly Aki Sora shouldn't be viewed by children but our policy regarding hentai is with graphic depictions of sex. As was pointed out, it's not Bible Black. Is it uncomfortable subject matter for some, certainly. But once you start splitting hairs about what is appropriate everything is fair game and it's easy to fall prey to censorship.

We judged that while borderline, it does not cross it. So it's listed, we gave a warning, and that's that. Keep in mind that it's not classified as Hentai anywhere else, and while some might be uncomfortable with the themes or the depiction of them it is also ultimately up to them if they wish to view it or not. For children who happen upon it, I would hope there are good parents willing to discuss with their child before giving them permission to view it.
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Old 2010-01-15, 00:52   Link #172
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It is interesting how sex and sexuality always comes under fire from people but violence generally does not. There are plenty of anime listed here and elsewhere that are definitely not for children because they are extremely violent, and yet you'll see few cries of "don't list this" because hey...it's just a guys head being chopped off with blood flowing everywhere, who cares right? Everyone loves a good beheading!

Compare this to "there's nipples, ban it!" or "she/he looks too young, pedo!" and I scratch my head at the double standard. Certainly Aki Sora shouldn't be viewed by children but our policy regarding hentai is with graphic depictions of sex. As was pointed out, it's not Bible Black. Is it uncomfortable subject matter for some, certainly. But once you start splitting hairs about what is appropriate everything is fair game and it's easy to fall prey to censorship.

We judged that while borderline, it does not cross it. So it's listed, we gave a warning, and that's that. Keep in mind that it's not classified as Hentai anywhere else, and while some might be uncomfortable with the themes or the depiction of them it is also ultimately up to them if they wish to view it or not. For children who happen upon it, I would hope there are good parents willing to discuss with their child before giving them permission to view it.
You made the call, as is you job; so no one should argue with you. As it happens, I agree with you when it comes to sex vs violence, but those that consider themselves "protectors of our cultural mores" by means of law suits, cease and desist orders and legal chicanery are obsessively focused on sex. Remember, a compound fracture gets re-played 100 times, but one nipple nearly re-writes how we broadcast Football games. And moral crusaders make anti-piracy watchdogs look like a poodle on a short leash. With luck, no one will sniff this out and begin to howl.
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Old 2010-01-15, 01:59   Link #173
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Well for me I think this falls under that thing like, I understand what its technically supposed to be but I'll label it something else cause its so borderline it might as well be it.
I mean to be honest who's any one kidding this is hentai, guess you could say its a series thats not sure what it wants to be, so is kinda in limbo about it.
It should have just gone that extra step and given us the full show and be done with.
Only reason I see why this gets the attention it does is cause of what it's labelled as, considering its content.

Well whatever anyone wants to think it should be, its nothing great and IMO should be watched for the kicks

I would have much prefered a My Balls or Yuria 100 anime, they are simply epic
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Old 2010-01-15, 14:38   Link #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It is interesting how sex and sexuality always comes under fire from people but violence generally does not. There are plenty of anime listed here and elsewhere that are definitely not for children because they are extremely violent, and yet you'll see few cries of "don't list this" because hey...it's just a guys head being chopped off with blood flowing everywhere, who cares right? Everyone loves a good beheading!

Compare this to "there's nipples, ban it!" or "she/he looks too young, pedo!" and I scratch my head at the double standard. Certainly Aki Sora shouldn't be viewed by children but our policy regarding hentai is with graphic depictions of sex. As was pointed out, it's not Bible Black. Is it uncomfortable subject matter for some, certainly. But once you start splitting hairs about what is appropriate everything is fair game and it's easy to fall prey to censorship.
No objection to your decision but concerning the double-standard.

Blood and gore is under completely other concerns and limits compared to sex. Things like realism to the level where some people might get stressed watching it (for children the issue being trauma; even if only as far as nightmares) is the consideration, not the volume. The candy-coded sugar rich blood/gore they use in hollywood and anime is harmless regardless of how much you use (has even been used for comic relief). There's another more important consideration. I'll give you a simple example: in Claymore limbs fly off, blood spills out everywhere and yet at best people will find it interesting. Compare that to say a prisoner of war being decapitated in cold blood while very much conscious and calling for help, complete with voice getting drowned down by the blood flowing down from the severing of the neck; as well as ther details, face first, no instant death, pain, suffering (not to mention there's no hero moral, dignity or reason to have them die). As they say "ignorance is bless", its better if people aren't "trained" into finding it acceptable or easy, even if only a little.

When it comes to sex subjects its no longer how they show it (that is not gonna kill people) but rather what the show/movie is trying to make out as reality. For example: all girls are sluts, all guys are abusers of sluts. You then have masturbating, incest and other sex related activities (not even mentioning things like rape) as the norm or common. It may be just ideas, but ideas with wide spread have great influence; just take the ever changing opinion of the internet each year, depending on content. These subjects are also obscured in society, to be blunt: people are too uninformed to realize whats a far fetched fantasy (plot device) and what is really based on reality. Take into consideration what happens to stupid teenagers who's personality is largely watch-and-copy what the majority they see around them is doing and you have a potential brainwashing problem.
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Old 2010-01-15, 16:55   Link #175
Forbin
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
We judged that while borderline, it does not cross it. So it's listed, we gave a warning, and that's that. Keep in mind that it's not classified as Hentai anywhere else, and while some might be uncomfortable with the themes or the depiction of them it is also ultimately up to them if they wish to view it or not. For children who happen upon it, I would hope there are good parents willing to discuss with their child before giving them permission to view it.
Thanks Solace.

I just wish you posted that POLICY in this thread.
Here's the last official post regarding it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From GDPro
This anime, like the manga, isn't "officially" classified as hentai. But contents wise, it comes awfully close.
The problem I have is that as AnimeSuki doesn't list hentai (see Listing policy), Aki Sora's dubious status makes it difficult to decide whether we should list torrents for it on the main site or not.

This may not be the best place to ask, but has anyone got an opinion on whether or not we should list torrents for it (and why)?
Hence why the discussion continued, you didn't tell us it was ok to list, you left the question open for the discussion.
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Old 2010-01-15, 20:55   Link #176
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Originally Posted by Forbin View Post
Hence why the discussion continued, you didn't tell us it was ok to list, you left the question open for the discussion.
It's not a problem to continue the discussion. I saw that there wasn't an update and decided to clarify our decision. It is absolutely questionable content, and we're still uneasy about listing it to be honest. However all we can base our decision on is the first episode, public opinion, and our own feelings on the matter. If future episodes go further, I can confidently say we'll have to make another decision about if it's in our interest to continue to list torrents for the series.

I saw Queen's Blade mentioned earlier as an example of going too far. We were debating that among the staff when it aired actually, but before we really had to decide to list it we received notice that it was licensed. It resolved that problem but Aki Sora did not share the same fate.

In any case, there's nothing wrong with discussing the content of Aki Sora, either the plot or the social implications of the themes in the plot, or even just the decision to create such borderline material in the first place. Those can be rather healthy discussion points and we don't wish to discourage that, so don't take my previous post as an attempt to squash the topic.

Our decision to list it, however infamous, was taken under consideration from this thread and the opinions of the staff. So I hope no one feels we're not simply polling the community without actually listening to them. Our opinions privately were just as split as the ones in this thread, amusingly enough.

As for Cats post, I can't find much to disagree with, but I will point out cultures have widely varying opinions and attitudes about sex and violence. In America, we're especially hypocritical about it...sexuality is everywhere but the subject itself is difficult to approach because there are very rabid moralists who use children as a shield to hide their unwillingness to handle sex, gender, and sexuality maturely. Violence however, seems to get a pass until it is linked to a shocking event. Perhaps this discussion would be better suited for a General Discussion topic though, since it might derail the thread a bit too much.
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Old 2010-01-17, 02:02   Link #177
billborden
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Originally Posted by Cats View Post
No objection to your decision but concerning the double-standard.

Blood and gore is under completely other concerns and limits compared to sex. Things like realism to the level where some people might get stressed watching it (for children the issue being trauma; even if only as far as nightmares) is the consideration, not the volume. The candy-coded sugar rich blood/gore they use in hollywood and anime is harmless regardless of how much you use (has even been used for comic relief). There's another more important consideration. I'll give you a simple example: in Claymore limbs fly off, blood spills out everywhere and yet at best people will find it interesting. Compare that to say a prisoner of war being decapitated in cold blood while very much conscious and calling for help, complete with voice getting drowned down by the blood flowing down from the severing of the neck; as well as ther details, face first, no instant death, pain, suffering (not to mention there's no hero moral, dignity or reason to have them die). As they say "ignorance is bless", its better if people aren't "trained" into finding it acceptable or easy, even if only a little.

When it comes to sex subjects its no longer how they show it (that is not gonna kill people) but rather what the show/movie is trying to make out as reality. For example: all girls are sluts, all guys are abusers of sluts. You then have masturbating, incest and other sex related activities (not even mentioning things like rape) as the norm or common. It may be just ideas, but ideas with wide spread have great influence; just take the ever changing opinion of the internet each year, depending on content. These subjects are also obscured in society, to be blunt: people are too uninformed to realize whats a far fetched fantasy (plot device) and what is really based on reality. Take into consideration what happens to stupid teenagers who's personality is largely watch-and-copy what the majority they see around them is doing and you have a potential brainwashing problem.
Solace is correct, we have wandered far from the show, but I want to add one more note (fat in the fire??? ). Several years ago I worked in a video rental store. A lady came in one night, and asked for help in choosing a film for her son's sleep over/guys night. I don't remember their exact ages, but they were in junior high so 7-9th grade. Her son had asked for "The Whole Nine Yards", and she wanted to know what I thought and why it was rated R (this is before they had codes explaining ratings). I explained that it really depended on how mature her son was; what she thought he could deal with. I pointed out that the plot revolved around a professional hit-man who was good at his work. Several people were killed in the film and that the film's resolution involved taking two dead bodies, altering their dental work and then burning the bodies beyond recognition. Up to here, her response was "Humm, OK, I see.., uh huh" and the film remained on the check-out counter.
At this point, I added something like "Oh yeah, and there 30-60 seconds of Amanda Peet topless leaning out a window, then another few of her distracting a couple hit men the same way." At this point, the lady straightened up, took the video off the counter and said "Oh, well, maybe I should get something else then." Just to be clear, she had no problem with hit-men, murder, torching bodies or helping a hit man escape the law, but a naked girls breasts might twist his young mind.
This country has a problem with sex, and those that have the biggest problem with it will always be the ones shouting the loudest and suing the fastest. Beware or be prepared.
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Old 2010-01-18, 11:14   Link #178
Key Board
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Aki Sora is a limited special edition OAV that came with the manga

You will probably never hear official word of it being licensed in the US. Not to mention that incest is still a touchy subject. I know for fact that even with a target audience that is intolerant of censorship, some adult manga are still"sanitized" when it comes to incest themes.

You are still on a very slippery slope since you're essentially providing pay per view for free, though.

But then again, I have a problem with sites that host torrents for OAVs and and DVD/BR rips so just feel free to ignore me.

Last edited by Key Board; 2010-01-18 at 11:26.
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Old 2010-02-05, 10:16   Link #179
lightl
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found this on animenewsnetwork , guess its getting another OVA
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...taff-confirmed
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Old 2010-06-06, 01:28   Link #180
MrTerrorist
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NicoDou Rejects Aki Sora OVA

Well duh!
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