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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 3 Rating
Perfect 10 38 20.99%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 61 33.70%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 41 22.65%
7 out of 10 : Good 23 12.71%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 4.97%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 7 3.87%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.55%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.55%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-17, 11:36   Link #141
Yami Sonozaki
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Well the only thing I kinda hated in this episode were Maria's face expressions (some of them that didn't really fit in). I know many people compared her to Rena from Higu, but come on... some of the faces she makes are really weird and don't fit in at all.

Other than that it was an ok episode. Thank god Eva's dead. Woo!
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Old 2009-07-17, 11:56   Link #142
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Thank god Eva's dead. Woo!
More haters. :(
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Old 2009-07-17, 11:59   Link #143
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Originally Posted by jdlkem View Post
the only big irk for me is takano...i mean eva's voice. Taka...i mean eva's voice should be a bit more soothing (aka during the hideyoshi x eva private time scene), especially to battler.

Spoiler for adsf:
I too also have many problems with Eva's voice, although I feel her voice should be more shrill, not smooth and "droopy" . She's supposed to be a crabby power-hungry mother, not a sulky seductress.

Regarding the BGMs, I think the main problem is that our hopes get up when we hear some of the songs from VN, but then the next scene has either very misplaced music, or no music at all (e.g. Nighteyes omission, with no replacement whatsoever). Again, I feel the show is being really half-hearted with its music. And in all honesty, I wish they didn't use any of the music of VN as it only makes it more jarring when some of it is missing. At least Higurashi had a common theme across its music, making it actually fit and flow throughout the episode.
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:02   Link #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Btw, didn't see anyone questioned about "why the murder of 2nd twilight happened before the dinner of the 1st.... like i did"
At this point I admit that I find the translation, even though that it wonderfully emulates the feeling of the epitaph, is a bit too free in it's translation.
The original reads 「第二の晩に、残されし者は寄り添う二人を引き裂け。」 which would translate more closely into "At the second evening/night, the remaining one/people is to tear up/split the two who are close to each other".
This of course is not a nice translation in any way and I admire The Witch Hunt for what they have done so far...but of course, everytime you translate something, you loose something.

晩 is a rather broad expression for the 'evening', which can mean everything from mostly 5 pm till 10 pm. 
者 is like most Japanese nouns not fixed in plural or singular, it can mean 1 person or people. 
引き裂け is one of the many plays on words that are found in the epitaph. It can mean both 'to split' in a broader sense, as 'to make them split up' and 'to tear apart' in a rather literal sense of 'tearing them into little pieces'.

So it is not really an inconstitency, but more a term of interpretation.

Quote:
Also how could the doctor tell a 9 years old kid that her mother was killed? I thought for sure that they will have to hide the fact from Maria till later
But isn't it strange for Maria to be so unconcerned about her mother's demise?
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:14   Link #145
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But isn't it strange for Maria to be so unconcerned about her mother's demise?
Well she's a little creep.

The other characters look fairly unconcerned as well. It's probably a combination of squeezing the story into so few episodes, and the producers wanting to focus on the mystery more than the drama.

No more Eva this scenario.
*patiently waits for her next reincarnation*
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:17   Link #146
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More haters.
Yep, I wish Natsuhi would have done it with the shotgun when she had the chance thou =P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chounokoe
But isn't it strange for Maria to be so unconcerned about her mother's demise?
After she got those slaps from her, maybe her caring mode went offline xd.
But yeah, it's weird, and there's probably more to it.
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:17   Link #147
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Originally Posted by chounokoe View Post
At this point I admit that I find the translation, even though that it wonderfully emulates the feeling of the epitaph, is a bit too free in it's translation.
The original reads 「第二の晩に、残されし者は寄り添う二人を引き裂け。」 which would translate more closely into "At the second evening/night, the remaining one/people is to tear up/split the two who are close to each other".
This of course is not a nice translation in any way and I admire The Witch Hunt for what they have done so far...but of course, everytime you translate something, you loose something.

晩 is a rather broad expression for the 'evening', which can mean everything from mostly 5 pm till 10 pm. 
者 is like most Japanese nouns not fixed in plural or singular, it can mean 1 person or people. 
引き裂け is one of the many plays on words that are found in the epitaph. It can mean both 'to split' in a broader sense, as 'to make them split up' and 'to tear apart' in a rather literal sense of 'tearing them into little pieces'.

So it is not really an inconstitency, but more a term of interpretation.



But isn't it strange for Maria to be so unconcerned about her mother's demise?
In this case, 者 seems to refer to multiple people, and since English has no way of referring to both plural and singular in a single word, the plural is by far the better one to use here. And yes, I think the best way to keep the play on words found in 引き裂け is 'tear apart', since it has both meanings in English too. If it weren't for the overall tone of the epitaph, you would probably assume it meant to separate them from each other.

It looks like the only thing you're taking issue with is the word 'twilight'. That may or may not be the best word to use in this case, but the truth is that no one will know until the meaning behind the epitaph is revealed.
It does have a much more mysterious feel behind it than 'evening', and at least so far, this word is not meant literally. Plus, 晩 is sometimes translated as 'twilight' or 'sunset' when it is used poetically.

By the way, I was not the person who wrote the translation for the epitaph, but I agree with it completely given the information we have now. Some changes might need to be made when the answer arcs of the game are released.
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Last edited by chronotrig; 2009-07-17 at 12:31.
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:32   Link #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
In this case, 者 seems to refer to multiple people, and since English has no way of referring to both plural and singular in a single word, the plural is by far the better one to use here. And yes, I think the best way to keep the play on words found in 引き裂け is 'tear apart', since it has both meanings in English too. If it weren't for the overall tone of the epitaph, you would probably assume it meant to separate them from each other.

It looks like the only thing you're taking issue with is the word 'twilight'. That may or may not be the best word to use in this case, but the truth is that no one will know until the meaning behind the epitaph is revealed.
It does have a much more mysterious feel behind it than 'evening', and at least so far, this word is not meant literally.

By the way, I was not the person who wrote the translation for the epitaph, but I agree with it completely given the information we have now. Some changes might need to be made when the answer arcs of the game are released.
Oh no, sorry if it sounded a bit more critic than I wanted it to sound.
I've always got the feeling I kinda miss out on context-sensitive behaviour when talking/writing English, because it's not my first language.
I'm on a translation job myself right now and I know how hard it is to squeeze meaning AND feeling into a sentence and at the same time keep the space that is offered by the original medium in mind.
I'm always in a clinch and want to include several optional sentences, but well you always have to sacrifice something for a translation.

That person did a really great job at translating this thing and (s)he's got my full admiration for what (s)he's done. Wordplays, puns and everything that deals with certain idiomatic phrases are always the hardest to translate.

Twilight really is the best word you can think of in such a context...the only other word could have been dusk, but somehow that sounds wrong in the context.

So yeah...I only wanted to point it out to some anime viewers, so they know there are some things that are just difficult to translate.
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:35   Link #149
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It's alright. I wasn't trying to disagree with you, just explaining for non-Japanese speakers why we used the translation we did. Everything you said is good to know and might be needed to solve the riddle.
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:37   Link #150
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More haters.
Seriously. Eva was to me the most entertaining member of the cast up till now with her constant "lol i troll u" voice and lines. And she was pretty MILF-ish too. So yeah, she'll be missed.
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Old 2009-07-17, 12:56   Link #151
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With all my respect, but i seriously hope that Umineko won't based so much on words and characters (which obviously it did since we have the very important epitaph).

I remember myself reading Conan back in junior high and almost do not understand a single thing about all of the clue and mysteries involving Japanese characters.

Obviously the translating groups for Umineko may do not knows the actual meaning yet as the answer may not even be official (my guess is it didn't). Still, even when you knows the actual meaning, you may not be able to find an equivalent term in English. Then even so, the term may contains spoiler for the final answer which would not be wise to throw around.
I understand the hardship since i did learn more than 1 language, therefore instead of hoping a better term could be used, i hope it will not play a big role instead
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Old 2009-07-17, 13:16   Link #152
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more deaths....suspicious
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Old 2009-07-17, 13:44   Link #153
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Words play is always important in mystery genre (*looking at The Murder of Roger Ackroyd in my hand). It's not surprise if Umineko would have a lot of words play in it too. However, it is not necessary that the words,phrases or sentences would not be fully translated with fully intact meaning.
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Old 2009-07-17, 13:46   Link #154
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more deaths....suspicious
It's almost like there's a crime going on...
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Old 2009-07-17, 13:52   Link #155
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Speaking of the servants... Um, I feel uncomfortable calling them that.
You are supposed to call them furniture
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Old 2009-07-17, 17:52   Link #156
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The dishwasher is broken, tho (and so is the oven).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercurius View Post
I too also have many problems with Eva's voice, although I feel her voice should be more shrill, not smooth and "droopy" . She's supposed to be a crabby power-hungry mother, not a sulky seductress.
You don't know about her sins

Personally I love her voice.

I can't really think of anyways to make the anime better without spending more money/time on the chapters. For teh guy asking what should he do I think watching the aniem first, then reading the novel afterwards works better.
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Old 2009-07-17, 20:06   Link #157
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You are supposed to call them furniture
I always get confused as to which one is the armchair, the couch, the... credenza...
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Old 2009-07-17, 21:48   Link #158
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Do any of these characters find it strange that Maria gets these sudden personality batshit insane changes? Srsly. Also, Kinzo under the table was lol.
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Old 2009-07-17, 21:51   Link #159
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Do any of these characters find it strange that Maria gets these sudden personality batshit insane changes? Srsly. Also, Kinzo under the table was lol.
Battler seems to get freaked out enough :P
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Old 2009-07-17, 22:01   Link #160
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I enjoyed this episode quite a bit.

Battler's Great Detective Chessmastering was pretty sweet, and Eva's reactions to what he said were priceless.

Also sad about Eva. Not happy that she's gone either; I loved her voice and how much of a horrible bitch she was.

Very pleased to see that the proverbial acorn has not fallen far from the oak--Ax Crazy loli Maria got some good screen time, but came along with the unfortunate presence of Studio DEEN's typically Off-Model artwork. The facial expressions were quite frankly ridiculous in Higurashi--they aren't any better (and might be considered worse) in Umineko.

Maria's rapidly shaping up to be my favorite character, which if you know me, you could have seen this coming a mile away. I certainly do love the psycho lolis, DEEN's Off Model tendencies notwithstanding.

Though, to be fair, I'm really digging Battler as the protagonist--much more than I ever liked Keiichi (even if K1 was a Fake Protagonist for Rika). His character design is better (I dig redheads, plus I am one) and he's showing himself to be a bit of a Lelouch-in-training, though obviously not quite so bastardly. ^^;

Eagerly awaiting more--I'm following this series more arduously than any of the others now--especially since Haruhi has wound up so maddening with Endless Eights, and Sora wo Kakeru Shoujo #26 remains unsubbed.

Well, I'm pretty fixated on Canaan as well.
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