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Old 2009-07-28, 08:21   Link #201
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk View Post
I would like to think Garp took Ace in because he has a heart, not blackmail.
If it wasn’t because Garp cared, the only options left is because Rogers has a strong ass Haki.

If Garp wouldn’t had been such loveable character, my guess would had been Rogers using Haki, as Rogers word to garp suggest that. or better, Garp was doubtful, but Rogers Haki helped that doubt to be cleared.

I also wonder if Luffy Haki influenced both Zoro and Sanji to join the strawhats.
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Old 2009-07-28, 08:26   Link #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
If it wasn’t because Garp cared, the only options left is because Rogers has a strong ass Haki.

If Garp wouldn’t had been such loveable character, my guess would had been Rogers using Haki, as Rogers word to garp suggest that. or better, Garp was doubtful, but Rogers Haki helped that doubt to be cleared.

I also wonder if Luffy Haki influenced both Zoro and Sanji to join the strawhats.
I wouldn't use the word 'use' in this case.

Zoro felt Luffy's fighting spirit and ambition, in other words, his Haki, so he decided to follow him for a similar dream. Same for Sanji who saw that Luffy has an ambition like his and probably much bigger than his. They felt a strong sense of determination from him that's why they followed Luffy.

You can say after much of their rivalry, Garp began to respect Roger and felt him like how Zoro and Sanji felt Luffy. Garp accepted Roger's request through respect.
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Old 2009-07-28, 08:38   Link #203
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
I wouldn't use the word 'use' in this case.
Meaning?


Quote:
You can say after much of their rivalry, Garp began to respect Roger and felt him like how Zoro and Sanji felt Luffy. Garp accepted Roger's request through respect.
And it is a possibility Haki helped in this case.
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Old 2009-07-28, 08:44   Link #204
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Meaning?

And it is a possibility Haki helped in this case.
Haki is not 'used' on people, Haki is felt.

Just like you don't think someone is brave because he 'used' courage on you, you felt that he was courageous through his actions.

And yes of course Haki can be a factor in this case. What I meant was that Garp respected Roger because of his Haki and accepted his request.
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Old 2009-07-28, 09:03   Link #205
Rurik
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Haki is not 'used' on people, Haki is felt.

I know what you are referring to but the terms use can be used when you a talking from the perspective of the one who is influencing. If Haki is something that can be controlled by this person, then it can be used, because it has this properties and has the magical property to influence others., while Haki resembles things from the real world, here Oda has given the magical touch to this, to the highest of even been able to influence inert objects.
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Old 2009-07-28, 09:21   Link #206
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I won't change your opinion, but if you're having such a perspective, its cheapening Oda's already nerfed effects of Haki/Ki in Shounen manga.

Oda is using Haki in a very down to earth and realistic sense compared to how Ki is shown in Dragonball, Street Fighter and Fist of the North Star for example. Those 3 has Ki that can be used outright as fireballs, shockwaves and projectiles. But Oda is keeping it low, in order to do ranged Ki attacks, you have to put your intention into your shot and shoot it, you can't just shoot out your will and spirit.

And even in those 3, Haki has never been able to do mind control, because Haki is not magical in this sense, even if it has been made 'magical'.

When I say it bends the wills of others, its that the others either fear you and decide to do what you say, or they respect you and decide to agree with you.

Garp simply respected the pride and power of the greatest pirate ever, that pride and power he achieved through his ambition, his Haki. Garp's respect for his Haki eventually made him agree with his request.

Its a case of rivals respecting each other and becoming friends.
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I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

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Old 2009-07-28, 09:23   Link #207
AddiKtioNn-BlaCk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
If it wasn’t because Garp cared, the only options left is because Rogers has a strong ass Haki.

If Garp wouldn’t had been such loveable character, my guess would had been Rogers using Haki, as Rogers word to garp suggest that. or better, Garp was doubtful, but Rogers Haki helped that doubt to be cleared.
I doubt Garp would be intimidated by Roger's Haki.
Being as though Garp chased him (Roger) and fought to death on numerious occasions.
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Old 2009-07-28, 09:30   Link #208
d' airscapez
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Spoiler for One Piece Chapter 552:
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Old 2009-07-28, 09:39   Link #209
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
I won't change your opinion, but if you're having such a perspective, its cheapening Oda's already nerfed effects of Haki/Ki in Shounen manga.
I don’t think my perspective its Chepaining Oda’s version of Haki, because, A) We have seen Arrows that can destroy rocks, B) And It has the magical touch of concing other, or even putting unconcius an entire crowd.

Quote:
Oda is using Haki in a very down to earth and realistic sense compared to how Ki is shown in Dragonball, Street Fighter and Fist of the North Star for example. Those 3 has Ki that can be used outright as fireballs, shockwaves and projectiles. But Oda is keeping it low, in order to do ranged Ki attacks, you have to put your intention into your shot and shoot it, you can't just shoot out your will and spirit.

And even in those 3, Haki has never been able to do mind control, because Haki is not magical in this sense, even if it has been made 'magical'.

When I say it bends the wills of others, its that the others either fear you and decide to do what you say, or they respect you and decide to agree with you.

Garp simply respected the pride and power of the greatest pirate ever, that pride and power he achieved through his ambition, his Haki. Garp's respect for his Haki eventually made him agree with his request.

Its a case of rivals respecting each other and becoming friends.
Don’t get me wrong, Im aware that this Haki, compared to others is different and more down to earth than other Mangas used of ‘Ki, including how I have seen the use of Saki (which this is what I use in comparison to Haki). However, and going back at My original point and stop a Haki debate, While There were respect between Garp and Rogers, And Garp has shown that he is not as cold as other Marines, it could had been plausible that Garp still had doubt on what to do, based on this, Roger, used hi Haki (and when I say use is not like If he activated something) to convince Garp into helping him.

I think the confusion here is with the word use, when I say Use, is not really referring to “hahahah, Let me use My Haki Attack on Garp”, is more like, Just indicating in my sentence that Haki was at work here.

----


Spoiler:
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Old 2009-07-28, 09:44   Link #210
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Okay guys, new chapter thread's up!
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Old 2009-07-28, 09:49   Link #211
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That's why I said its a perspective, a perspective is something extremely hard to change and I'm not going to try and change yours.

People just haven't seen enough of what Ki can do in other manga. I've use that example of the homing phoenix arrows for many times. Intimidating people so much that they can become unconscious can even be done in real life. I'm sure people know that you can faint from fear, people faint upon seeing snakes, spiders. When they find themselves in a dangerous situation, like terrorists hijacking a plane, people can faint from the fear. In manga, the fear from intimidation is just amplified like Luffy's strength, speed and determination.

If you think people fainting from Haki is magical, in other manga, people can die just from someone's Sakki, the killing intention is so strong that people die instantly.

People have this habit to think that something is big when they see it for the first few times, but after seeing it often, they'll think its normal.
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Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

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Old 2009-07-28, 10:10   Link #212
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
That's why I said its a perspective, a perspective is something extremely hard to change and I'm not going to try and change yours.

People just haven't seen enough of what Ki can do in other manga. I've use that example of the homing phoenix arrows for many times. Intimidating people so much that they can become unconscious can even be done in real life. I'm sure people know that you can faint from fear, people faint upon seeing snakes, spiders. When they find themselves in a dangerous situation, like terrorists hijacking a plane, people can faint from the fear. In manga, the fear from intimidation is just amplified like Luffy's strength, speed and determination.

If you think people fainting from Haki is magical, in other manga, people can die just from someone's Sakki, the killing intention is so strong that people die instantly.

People have this habit to think that something is big when they see it for the first few times, but after seeing it often, they'll think its normal.
Sorry C.A., but you can use your “I have seen more about it than others” card with other posters, but don’t play it with me, as I have seen my share of similar things than this.

Like I said in my post if you read it, compared to other series, yes this use is more toned down (at least for now), however, I don’t think massive Fainting from Haki is magical, it is magical given this is not realistic, (this is not the same as people fainitng in a moment of Panic in real life) Yes, I have seen mangas where Sakki have can Kill others, heck I have seen people using Sakki as an Attack, using for example the Killer intent to stop another person speech, Because that what he wanted with his Sakki. But What the Haki has done so far, in the little moments it has been shown; it has come with fictional tone.

And The example of real life you gave are a bit different from what Haki is, One thing is someone fainting from fear, People fear others and even faint because of what they can do to them and not because their strong will; it because these people or animal, or even objects hold something that are threatening their life, or because of a childhood trauma or even because there is phobia (which sometimes are because a Childhood trauma). \
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Old 2009-07-28, 10:19   Link #213
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
Sorry C.A., but you can use your “I have seen more about it than others” card with other posters, but don’t play it with me, as I have seen my share of similar tings than this.

Like I said in my post if you read it, compared to other series, yes this used is more toned down (at least for know), however, I don’t think massive Fainting from Haki is magical, it is magical given this is not realistic, Yes, I have seen mangas where Sakki that can Kill others, heck I have seen people using Sakki as an Attack, using for example the Killer intent to stop other people speech, Because that what he want. But What the Haki has done so far, in the little moments it has been shown; it has come with fictional tone.

And The example of real life you gave are a bit different from what Haki is, One thing is someone fainting from fear, People fear others and even faint because of them not because others strong will, it because these people or animal, or even objects hold something that are threatening their life, or it just because of a childhood trauma or even because of phobia (which sometimes are because a Childhood trauma). This is not perspective, this is scientific FACT.
And you should know that Oda is using the emotional form of Ki, not the magical type.

It is not the will that direct knocks people out, the will is expressed through the action, the action knocks people out. Rayleigh gave an extremely intimidating stare, sending fear into the people, still quite abstract. But Luffy gave a loud yell of rage along with the intimidating facial expression, it shocked the Amazons and sending a terrorising fear into them. It works especially well because they didn't expect he is such a terrifying person.

Fainting from fear: http://changingminds.org/explanations/emotions/fear.htm

Scientific fact: You can faint from any form of fear as long as the fear is strong enough and your brain resorts to switching your body off to protect you from more fear. It does not have to be childhood trauma or phobia.
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Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
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Old 2009-07-28, 10:34   Link #214
Rurik
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
And you should know that Oda is using the emotional form of Ki, not the magical type.
Even if its emotional, it has magical properties, like I said, the will of a person has not been shown in real life to put an entire crowd unconscious.

Quote:
It is not the will that direct knocks people out, the will is expressed through the action, the action knocks people out. Rayleigh gave an extremely intimidating stare, sending fear into the people, still quite abstract. But Luffy gave a loud yell of rage along with the intimidating facial expression, it shocked the Amazons and sending a terrorising fear into them. It works especially well because they didn't expect he is such a terrifying person.
Even like that, This type of reaction has not happened in real life instances, hence it is a magical reaction.

I’m very aware of What Fear is, more that what you can imagine.

Quote:
Scientific fact: You can faint from any form of fear as long as the fear is strong enough and your brain resorts to switching your body off to protect you from more fear. It does not have to be childhood trauma or phobia.
Yes, But you have fear of something based on diverse things based on Psychological reasons, and not because it was the will on others been imposed on you, this is not realistic, if you fear someone or something, as I said before, it because you either have a Childhood trauma associated with this, you have a Phobia, or this Something you fear, is in someway threatening your self-preservation (self preservation can vary depending of the person perception of the self).
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Old 2009-07-28, 10:42   Link #215
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I don't call it magical, I call it fictional, its a fictional amplified effect.

No one has ever punched through walls, lift houses or jump 20 stories up. Such strength can kill any normal human being in one hit.

And intimidation in fiction has also been amplified, so much that it can threaten any normal person's limit of self-preservation instantly. Only those who are stronger willed can carry through that fear.

In other words, anything that can happen in real life is amplified by fiction and made stronger and more effective.
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I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
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Old 2009-07-28, 10:45   Link #216
Rurik
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
I don't call it magical, I call it fictional, its a fictional amplified effect.

No one has ever punched through walls, lift houses or jump 20 stories up. Such strength can kill any normal human being in one hit.

And intimidation in fiction has also been amplified, so much that it can threaten any normal person's limit of self-preservation instantly. Only those who are stronger willed can carry through that fear.

In other words, anything that can happen in real life is amplified by fiction and made stronger and more effective.

You Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaka

I call it Magical because Im used to call everything that happens in fiction "Magical" When it is not Technology related.....I was suspecting that this debate was going on because of the use of word and not because a real disagreeement.
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Old 2009-07-28, 10:49   Link #217
C.A.
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Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
You Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaka

I call it Magical because Im used to call everything that happens in fiction "Magical". I was suspecting that this debate was going on because of the use of word and not because a real disagreeement.
lol I had this argument over at the Haki thread which requires precise use of terms, so I've become particular with how terms are used.

But magical is really not quite a good word to use though, I associate magic circles, hand movements, big poses and magic wands to 'magic'. Any special effect that's not magic will be 'fictional effects'.

Anyway I guess we can carry on to chapter 552 then.
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No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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Old 2009-08-02, 17:22   Link #218
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
There is something I wonder: Are those seastone handcuffs, Gold Roger is wearing in the flashback with Garp?


I'd think that the marines would use seastone cuffs for ANY dangerous criminal, whether they're a DF user or not. After all, we ARE talking about a material that's as hard as diamond.....



And for the record, the prison cells should be made of seastone, too. Smoker even said in the Alabasta storyline that all marine prisons had seastone jail cells, so the same probably held true back during Roger's era, as well.....
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