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Old 2009-07-23, 08:03   Link #1
yaluckyboy
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Recently, in Chapter 456, the Five Kages are gathering in the Land of Iron to discuss the threat of Akatsuki. The Tsuchikage has mentioned that the Land of Iron is Neutral Territory and that Ninjas are forbidden for entering it. (The Five Kages and their escorts are an obvious exception)

The Tsuchikage also mentions that instead of a military consisting of Ninjas, the Land of Iron possesses a military of Samurai. (A completely different type of military force) The fact that the Samurai and the Land of Iron have been able to compete with the Shinobi Nations is an obvious testament to their strength and ability.

Do the Samurai have a unique fighting ability that would rival that of the Ninja's Chakra and Ninjutsu and if so, what is it and how does it work. What kind of history do the Samurai have and what kind of ranking and/or government do they imploy.

This thread will allow you to give your ideas and speculation as to the nature of this new military class and how it would impact the rest of the Naruto series.
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Old 2009-07-23, 10:03   Link #2
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I've been hoping they are strong as Ninja's because if they arent, I give up on Naruto... Samurai FTW
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Old 2009-07-23, 12:53   Link #3
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Originally Posted by yaluckyboy View Post
This thread will allow you to give your ideas and speculation as to the nature of this new military class and how it would impact the rest of the Naruto series.
I believe instead of chakra that ninjas have they will have ki or something of the sort to power attacks and instead of jutsus they will probably have dances or styles that create different types of attacks maybe like:

Wind Dance: Slicing River and a large ki induced wind attacks the opponent because it would be a bit mean to give ninja chakra and flashy ninjutsu and leave samurais with swords that ninjas can use anyway. Also I'm surprised the samurai are even letting the Kages inside their country, samurai have been shown to despise ninja as samurais have a longstanding respect of honour and use it in their battles and I think some of those ethics are:

Not to attack an enemy not aware of your presence
Not to attack an unarmed enemy

Things which ninja do and is considered unhonourable by samurai
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Old 2009-07-23, 13:22   Link #4
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Judging by the extensive armor that the samurai we have seen so far wearing, I'm going to hope that the armor will be similar to the special chakra armor used by Doto Kazahana in the first Naruto movie.
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Old 2009-07-23, 19:46   Link #5
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Judging by the extensive armor that the samurai we have seen so far wearing, I'm going to hope that the armor will be similar to the special chakra armor used by Doto Kazahana in the first Naruto movie.
Ha, I was wondering that too.

I'm hoping their better with Swords than that guy who died when the sand villge made their assult on the leaf village. The guy who used the Moon Sword techique or somethin, I don't really remember the name of the guy or attack

hopefuly we'll see Sword battles with Sasuke and Waterboy vs the Samurai
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Old 2009-07-23, 19:58   Link #6
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Ha, I was wondering that too.

I'm hoping their better with Swords than that guy who died when the sand villge made their assult on the leaf village. The guy who used the Moon Sword techique or somethin, I don't really remember the name of the guy or attack

hopefuly we'll see Sword battles with Sasuke and Waterboy vs the Samurai
Gekko, I hope they are more talented than Kimimaro with swords....imagine a military force of samurais all just like: Mifune (Soul Eater), Miyamoto Musashi, That little girl with the swords from Tenjou Tenge, Kurogane (TRC), the shinsengumi from Peace Maker Kurogane
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Old 2009-07-23, 20:30   Link #7
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I think they would utilize chakra as well but name them differently, like Ki or something. For all we know, they might be ex-ninjas now with a code of honor or something?
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Old 2009-07-23, 20:33   Link #8
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They shouldn't use chakra in theory

From the Rinnegan's flashbacks, Rikudou Sennin taught people how to use chakra and it gave birth to ninjutsu. (hence chakra usage = ninjutsu)

I doubt we'll see any samurai fight seriously. Mifune might do a few moves if he is on the scene while Sasuke attacks, but the kages and bodyguards should take over the fight quickly.
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Old 2009-07-23, 20:35   Link #9
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They shouldn't use chakra in theory

From the Rinnegan's flashbacks, Rikudou Sennin taught people how to use chakra and it gave birth to ninjutsu. (hence chakra usage = ninjutsu)
Before that, the world may have mostly used samurai's and their techniques using stuff like ki and when Rikudou Sennin came in and introduced chakra the samurai faded into obscurity for refusing to do dishonourable missions whilst the ninja clans gladly agreed
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Old 2009-07-23, 21:32   Link #10
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I see, didn't think that far. If these samurais can hold their own against ninjas, I presume they have devised some way to defeat ninjas specifically?
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Old 2009-07-24, 05:31   Link #11
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I'm guessing either amazing taijutsu and/or magic weapons or guns.
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Old 2009-07-24, 07:48   Link #12
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Samurai are warriors. Ninja are supposed to be assassins.
Of course Naruto and the others have failed to be assassins up to now. Especially the bodyguard jobs are somehow unusual for assassins. I mean ninjas are supposed to hide and so on. Stealth seems to be a foreign word to people like Naruto.

Up to now, it's all been about power. That's why I can't imagine Samurai to join in now. Samurai are supposed to wear an armor and have large weapons, but that's already happened with the ninjas. Look at Kisame or Zabusa. Both have/had incredibly huge swords.

Those disaffected ninjas make me worry where the story goes. I think it's just a plot device, because the kage meeting could not take place in one of the known countries as they are all cautious and none of them shall have the advantage of being in his own country where all other kages could be assassinated, so Masa-kun had to think something up – a new country that mustn't belong to the "Ninja world", so it belongs to the "Samurai world" and has no kages, which is rather illogic, because up to now, it's been a ninja world.

If the iron country was stronger than a ninja nation, why not take it to increase the Iron country's power? If it was weaker, why doesn't kumo for example move out and take possession of the Iron country to increase it's territory and military power by subjecting the samurai?

Even more, if there's an Iron country with samurai, why doesn't any ninja nation have samurai aswell? Wouldn't it be clever to have both - samurai and ninja to increase the military power of a country?

Are there more samurai counties or is there but one, solely existing to make sure the Kages can have a meeting without interference? Income. Yes, income. How does a shinobi nation earn money? Do shinobi actually take on the same jobs as ninjas or what? Does the Iron country sell minerals as for example iron, maybe chakra absorbing materials to the warmonger nations of the ninja world?
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Old 2009-07-24, 08:56   Link #13
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Originally Posted by AuroraFlash View Post
Samurai are warriors. Ninja are supposed to be assassins. Of course Naruto and the others have failed to be assassins up to now. Especially the bodyguard jobs are somehow unusual for assassins. I mean ninjas are supposed to hide and so on. Stealth seems to be a foreign word to people like Naruto.

Up to now, it's all been about power. That's why I can't imagine Samurai to join in now. Samurai are supposed to wear an armor and have large weapons, but that's already happened with the ninjas. Look at Kisame or Zabusa. Both have/had incredibly huge swords.
Actually, both ninja and samurai were warriors. The samurai were the elite soldiers, the bodyguards of the daimyo or warlords. They were the cream of the crop. Any daimyo would employ the best samurai for his army if he was to become powerful. During the feudal era of Japan, daimyo fought each other for power and for land, and the samurai figured significantly in their goals. Some daimyo also had some ninja in their employ, they kept them reserved for doing things that the samurai were too proud to do. The samurai believed that there were certain things that were beneath them. That's where the ninja came in to play. So for the samurai in Naruto to be portrayed as guards is not at all unusual. They are probably the elite soldiers of the Land of Iron. They don't need ninja just like some daimyo from the feudal era who felt that they didn't need the services of the ninja.

The ninja were not simply considered as assassins. They did all sorts of things for their employers, assassinations, espionage, stealing, and yes, even pose as bodyguards. But of course they did this secretly, they used covers like pose as merchants, servants, etc. They didn't protect their employers openly, very few of them admitted that they were ninja. They basically did anything that was asked of them as long as the price was right. That's why the samurai despised their kind, they placed little value to honor, they did just about anything using any method to fulfill a task. The ninja also used swords, by the way. They just weren't as efficient with kenjutsu as the samurai. Their specialty was stealth, trickery and speed. The samurai, on the other hand, were an uptight crew. They lived by Bushido, they did everything by the book, so to speak, except for the ronin who were considered dishonorable and cowards. But they were frighteningly skilled. Their famous "one strike, one kill" is true. In a fair battle, a samurai would likely win over a ninja.

I am actually thrilled to see samurai included in this world of ninjas since I am such a samurai buff. But I could not understand why they were never mentioned before. It might be because Kishi didn't really plan on including them in the first place but simply got bored with his manga that he decided "what the hell, let's put in some samurai for kicks!", or it could be that he doesn't really plan on making his samurai significant enough to pose as a threat to his precious ninjas. Kishi romanticized the ninja in his manga, he made them honorable and more powerful than any warrior. He brought them out of the shadows and made them heroes. There's nothing wrong with that. I know that this is supposed to be a world where ninjas rule, but I hope that his samurai won't be just a bunch of idiots with swords. I would like to see a major showdown between these two iconic Japanese warriors.
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Old 2009-07-24, 09:31   Link #14
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Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
The ninja were not simply considered as assassins. They did all sorts of things for their employers, assassinations, espionage, stealing, and yes, even pose as bodyguards. But of course they did this secretly, they used covers like pose as merchants, servants, etc.
THat's basically what I wanted to say, but I put it simple. I thought I pointed out that ninja were more discrete. Well, I don't want to repeat everything again as you said it well.

So we both agree that the samurai in Naruto are closer to actual samurai than the ninja are to true ninja – at least up to now.

What can we expect of them? Are they strong enough even to restrict, maybe defeat Kages ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
"what the hell, let's put in some samurai for kicks!"
What the hell, let's put some cowboys for kicks!
What the hell, let's put some prostitudes for kicks!
What the hell, let's put some cyborgs for kicks!
What the hell, let's put some Marvel and DC super heroes for kicks!
What the hell, let'S put some Disney characters for kicks!
...

I see where that's going.
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Old 2009-07-24, 10:38   Link #15
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Im expecting an Ame Kaka ru Ryo no Hirameki (sp) out of one of these Samurai guys.
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Old 2009-07-24, 23:19   Link #16
ronin myael
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Originally Posted by AuroraFlash View Post
So we both agree that the samurai in Naruto are closer to actual samurai than the ninja are to true ninja – at least up to now.

What can we expect of them? Are they strong enough even to restrict, maybe defeat Kages ?


What the hell, let's put some cowboys for kicks!
What the hell, let's put some prostitudes for kicks!
What the hell, let's put some cyborgs for kicks!
What the hell, let's put some Marvel and DC super heroes for kicks!
What the hell, let'S put some Disney characters for kicks!
...

I see where that's going.
Yeah, I pretty much agree with you except for the part where you said that the samurai were warriors and the ninja were assassins.

As for the samurai in Naruto, I don't really know what to expect. I just hope Kishi won't screw it up because the samurai, in my opinion, were more formidable warriors than the ninja, based on history that is. But of course this is Kishi's universe where he made his ninja basically invincible and god-like.

What's the use of the samurai if they could not even contain ninja? These Naruto countries were at war for years, if the Land of Iron-having no ninja to protect them-is such a weakling country then how come it still exists even after all the wars it has seen? Some may argue that the wars were strictly fought by ninjas so the Land of Iron having no ninjas was not part of those wars. But if you look at history even weakling countries were victims of the wars started by the "big boys". Nobody escapes war. So perhaps this Land of Iron is not as insignificant after all.

Not to mention that it was chosen as the venue for this sensitive kage meeting where a possible war could erupt between the ninja nations if the kages were to disagree with one another. If this country is such a weakling, how can they protect themselves from the rampaging ninjas? How can they restrict five powerful kages and their cohorts? I hope Kishi will not disappoint. His samurai better hold their own against the ninja.
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Old 2009-07-25, 02:18   Link #17
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I wouldn't go too far. The land of Iron, as beautiful as it may be, and as delightful as it is to see other countries in Naruto, will most likely not be showcased much more.

Having Kage meetings in countries that have been ravaged by wars they have caused isn't a good idea. Having Kage meetings in their own countries is probably not well perceived. Too easy for ninjas to distrust one another.

So a neutral country. And it had to be strong enough to hold its own. Powerful military, cool background, samurai with abilities that are unknown.

Kishimoto did really well. He lets us speculate on their possible strengths and we are given a sensible, realistic possibility of a country that would serve as neutral ground for a Kage meeting. It is also quite possible that the countries pay the Land of Iron handsomely in exchange for this guarded meeting place. And naturally promise to leave it alone.

It was possibly a smaller country that was harder to subdue because of its important military. While other countries succumbed, ninjas might have had more trouble with this one. Let's keep in mind that no-name ninjas in Naruto are fairly weak. Chuunins are really the grunts of the Villages.
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Old 2009-07-25, 06:53   Link #18
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And just for good measure, colored one of the samurai panels as I imagined the scenery to be. Bit dark, but I like it better that way.

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Old 2009-07-25, 07:03   Link #19
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I hope they are as strong as ninjas and the samurais have one badass samurai like a missing nin out there
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Old 2009-07-25, 07:49   Link #20
ronin myael
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I just find those four katana a little over the top. In reality, samurai would usually have two katana, one main one and one reserved one, and sometimes they would also carry a wakizashi for defense. But four swords? It only goes to show that in this Naruto universe everything is exaggerated. I wonder what those four swords are for? Could it be that they could wield two swords at the same time and the other two serve as reserve katana? Very few samurai in history could wield twin swords simply because it is difficult to do. If this is so, then maybe Kishi's samurai are formidable after all.
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