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Old 2004-03-03, 03:20   Link #41
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterx
btw most westerners find the idea of animated porn ridiculous
That's very interesting. That's one thing I haven't heard yet. And as I had read through this thread, it seems there have been many instances where the view "anime = porno cartoons" seems to have been made.

Can someone care to elaborate, as this notion is very intriguing even from a casual Japanese person?
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Old 2004-03-03, 03:38   Link #42
AOforever1
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Thumbs down

What ever you guys want to call hentai, it is all the same thing.

Why are we having a (discussion) on this?!?
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Old 2004-03-03, 03:52   Link #43
Umbrae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
That's very interesting. That's one thing I haven't heard yet. And as I had read through this thread, it seems there have been many instances where the view "anime = porno cartoons" seems to have been made.

Can someone care to elaborate, as this notion is very intriguing even from a casual Japanese person?
Not quite rediculus, but more of humorus. Thier are western porno cartoons, but I have never seen a serious western porno cartoon. the closest I have ever seen to series was Fritz the Cat. as was mentioned earlier, but even that is more comedy than porn. Usualy comon cartoons or cartoon themese are turned into porn, in a humorus nature. A rendition of snow white and the 7 dwarves comes to mind off hand.

As for why it is only viewed in that nature, and does not follow in any aspect I have sene the more serious nature of some ero anime I do not know. although I must admit, I find most ero anime humorus to a degree. . . comon tell me no one thought the ideas of ninja fighting via sex is not humorus.
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Old 2004-03-03, 04:03   Link #44
babbito2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
That's very interesting. That's one thing I haven't heard yet. And as I had read through this thread, it seems there have been many instances where the view "anime = porno cartoons" seems to have been made.

Can someone care to elaborate, as this notion is very intriguing even from a casual Japanese person?
I said before, "As far as all this 'misperception' goes, the damage was done years ago and it can't be helped. Ero-anime was cheap to license so it got brought over. The fans back then didn't get upset about it; they knew what they liked."

This goes back to the mid-90s when there were far fewer US companies distributing anime. Most of the companies back then emphasized action and female characters in skimpy clothing in their marketing. US Manga Corps stuck fanservice-heavy titles like Aika and Ramune right into their regular lineup, which was kind of unusual. Kitty Media carries a large roster of eroanime to this day.

Third-party warehouses ran ads in adult magazines selling the "hentai" videos. A company called Eros Comics began to translate and publish ero-manga titles as well. Seemingly thousands of English-language websites sprang up to recycle whatever images they could find from game captures, manga scans etc.

As anime and manga became more popular in the US all this advertising created a composite image in many people's minds of heavy weapons, panty shots and tentacles... they didn't really know what it was all about so they just latched onto the images repeated most often in the advertising.

Like I said, the fans didn't care. Anime was harder to find, so it didn't seem strange that a lot of people didn't really know what was available. The licensing companies continued to sell series based on sensationalized nonsense, usually stressing sex and violence. That was annoying, but as long as the anime came over, it was all good...


As far as the statement, "Most westerners find animated porn ridiculous," that's basically true. Vast amounts of uncensored pornography have been easy to find for 25 years or so. It's no longer necessary to even try and shoot the stuff like a movie and have any vestige of a story anymore. There just seems to be no point to the consumer of this sort of thing to making an animated feature with a storyline using images of characters who look pretty much like the people who "act" in "live-action" porn.
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Old 2004-03-03, 07:21   Link #45
Briareos
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Well said babbito2k.

I'll add that I think westerners not taking animated erotica seriously is linked to many westerners not taking animation seriously in the first place. I doubt very much that a film like Grave of the Fireflies could have been made and marketed to great success in the US. People would say, "A what? A serious war drama as a cartoon? Yeah, right."

Cartoons (in the US) are still very strongly linked with children's entertainment. I get strange looks from some adults when I tell them I enjoy watching animated films and TV shows. I've heard people say, "Why would someone want to watch animated sex, when you can watch real people instead (porn films)?" Some westerners contend that the idea of animated sex is a perversion, clinging strongly to the idea that cartoons are just for kids. I've seen people comment online that those who watch animated erotica/porn are sad cases: "That's just pitiful, man, can't you get a girlfriend?"

Part of these points of view may be linked with the Puritan idea that sex is something inherently sinful, instead of a natural part of life. Living in the US, I can't help but feel that many Americans have a very immature (if that's the right word) ideas about the topic of sex in general.

Last edited by Briareos; 2004-03-03 at 08:27.
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Old 2004-03-03, 15:22   Link #46
Aoi Tenshi
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Hmm...I have to disagree with your opinion. Since like kj1980 said, "...in Japan, 'hentai' - as you call it, are known as 'ero-anime.'" Well, don't you think that put "hentai" into anime category?
Well, if you still not convinced, what does the the word "anime" mean? According to one of the forum, anime is actualy a word short for animation. Based on this, isn't hentai animated?
In conclusion, hentai is anime. The only difference is it falls under the category of ero-anime.
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Old 2004-03-03, 16:17   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoi Tenshi
Hmm...I have to disagree with your opinion.
Who's opinion?
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Old 2004-03-03, 18:05   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
That's very interesting. That's one thing I haven't heard yet. And as I had read through this thread, it seems there have been many instances where the view "anime = porno cartoons" seems to have been made.

Can someone care to elaborate, as this notion is very intriguing even from a casual Japanese person?
I suppose while awareness of "Hentai" is beginning to spread due to some hentai pay sites showering the internet with banner ads and popups, the very idea of cartoon porn is rediculous to almost anyone here. (Canada).

The main reason is that cartoons are for kids. The norm is, if you're older than maybe even 12, you'll start to get wierd looks if you say you watch cartoons. Thats because its belived, and almost entirely true, that cartoons *are* for kids. I'm not 100% for this reason, but its generally assumed that once you reach a certain age you'll give up such childish things. Infact, lots of people watching anime may get this reaction, that you need to grow up, be more mature, stop watching cartoons.

The second reason is that porn is while widespread, is still very much shunned by society as a whole. Obviously it still exists, and plenty of people view/buy it (although porn is something you're expected to grow out of too for the most part), but there's a large portion of society that is against its very existance. Here, there are many laws limiting the availability and distribution of pornographic content. For example, adult video's arn't allowed to be sold/rented in a place that has access to minors. An adult video store must have no see-through windows, and isn't allowed to advertise whats in the store. The store is required by law to be located away from heavy trafic areas, atleast half a km away and not within line of site from any schools or public center such as a library or recreation center. The government will carefully review content that crosses the border to verify that its taseful and complies with national law. Just to give you an idea of how strict society is with adult material here.

So basically in society here many people would find it wrong if you simply collected porn. You would be a strange person if you were 22 and still watching cartoons too. But cartoon porn, thats just screwed up. Another thing about cartoons here, is that they're for the most part very basic and undetailed. Its generally assumed that no one could be stimulated from such material. Basically "Cartoon Porn" is on the bad end of things when it comes to how society view it.
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Old 2004-03-03, 18:12   Link #49
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babbito2k
I said before, "As far as all this 'misperception' goes, the damage was done years ago and it can't be helped. Ero-anime was cheap to license so it got brought over. The fans back then didn't get upset about it; they knew what they liked."

This goes back to the mid-90s when there were far fewer US companies distributing anime. Most of the companies back then emphasized action and female characters in skimpy clothing in their marketing. US Manga Corps stuck fanservice-heavy titles like Aika and Ramune right into their regular lineup, which was kind of unusual. Kitty Media carries a large roster of eroanime to this day.

Third-party warehouses ran ads in adult magazines selling the "hentai" videos. A company called Eros Comics began to translate and publish ero-manga titles as well. Seemingly thousands of English-language websites sprang up to recycle whatever images they could find from game captures, manga scans etc.

As anime and manga became more popular in the US all this advertising created a composite image in many people's minds of heavy weapons, panty shots and tentacles... they didn't really know what it was all about so they just latched onto the images repeated most often in the advertising.

Like I said, the fans didn't care. Anime was harder to find, so it didn't seem strange that a lot of people didn't really know what was available. The licensing companies continued to sell series based on sensationalized nonsense, usually stressing sex and violence. That was annoying, but as long as the anime came over, it was all good...


As far as the statement, "Most westerners find animated porn ridiculous," that's basically true. Vast amounts of uncensored pornography have been easy to find for 25 years or so. It's no longer necessary to even try and shoot the stuff like a movie and have any vestige of a story anymore. There just seems to be no point to the consumer of this sort of thing to making an animated feature with a storyline using images of characters who look pretty much like the people who "act" in "live-action" porn.
Ah, now I understand. Now I know where and why our stereotypical image of American anime fans comes from. A very biased view of American otakus are somewhere like: "these 'Japanimation' fans want sexual innuendos and huge breasts."

Hmm, that really enlightened me. I was always wondering why some of the American otakus that I have met at Comike knew extremely minor anime such as "NG Ramune & 40," "Urotsukidouji," and "Bubblegum Crisis" (anime that can be hardly mentioned as a "major hit" here) when "Tokimeki Memorial" was all the craze in Japan. That was the only stuff that the US companies brought over! It all makes sense now...

However, whatever grabs your attention in a drought of anime is fine by me. Whatever the judgment, I see the anime fanbase in your country has increased very much in the past decade. As I see more and more non-Japanese people urking around Akihabara asking me in a quite-well-spoken Japanese: "sumimasen, Kotobukiya no figyuaa wa doko ni uttemasuka?" (Where can I find Kotobukiya figurines?) I take pride in what Japan has to offer to the world...especially in this age of depressing economic recession.

Now open the Pandora's Box to let loli and moe~ philosophy enter the mainstream in your country....
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Old 2004-03-03, 18:39   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Now open the Pandora's Box to let loli and moe~ philosophy enter the mainstream in your country....
Hehe, as interesting as that would be, these things would never become mainstream in north america. Although its likely small cults and such will be formed around this idea, and no, it won't be me, honestly! :P

I'll enlighten you a little further to the situation here. There is a HUGE society backlash against such taboo's. Loli, insest, they get torn apart by society. I heard of somewhere where sister princess got taken off the air because there were so many complaints about the content (it was mentioned earlier on these boards). I forget where, but its not here. Still, society is just as restless here. Undoubtedly if they tried to air it here it would suffer a similar fate.

Localization companies for ero games and anime are paranoid, with good reason. They go out of thier way to state characters age as being above 18, where as they wouldn't have even mentioned it in the japanese release. They change any reference to school, or 'gakuen' to College or University. And the reason is, if they didn't, someone would see this and take them to cort for attempting to distribute child pornography. Sad but true. I mean, somewhere in the states a few years back there was a court case where some people were trying to get "Urotsukidoji" declaired as obsene and force it to be removed from the market. They lost the case, but it gives you a good idea as to how society's stance is on the issue. While its slowly getting better, you won't see Loli and Moe floating around here for quite some time T_T.
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Old 2004-03-03, 19:33   Link #51
hentai_wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Hmm, that really enlightened me. I was always wondering why some of the American otakus that I have met at Comike knew extremely minor anime such as "NG Ramune & 40," "Urotsukidouji," and "Bubblegum Crisis" (anime that can be hardly mentioned as a "major hit" here) when "Tokimeki Memorial" was all the craze in Japan. That was the only stuff that the US companies brought over! It all makes sense now...
Bubblegum Crisis and Urotsukidouji certainly were hits in Japan. Calling them "extremely minor" boggles the mind, although if 1980 refers to the year you were born, then that would explain it since both of those shows came out in the late 80's and you may have been too young to remember them. And NG Ramune was never released in the US (although a spinoff OVA was many years later).

There have been shows that have had lukewarm receptions in Japan, but done very well in the states (Like Big O), but these three are not good examples.
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Old 2004-03-03, 21:48   Link #52
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddler
I heard of somewhere where sister princess got taken off the air because there were so many complaints about the content (it was mentioned earlier on these boards).
Sister Princess aired in your country? Can you tell me how they translated the twelve different ways of saying "older brother?" (in no specific order: oniichan, oniichama, anii, oniisama, oniitama, aniue-sama, niisama, aniki, ani-kun, anigimi-sama, niichama, niiya)

Or if you meant SisPre being taken off the air over here in Japan, then I can't recall that show being taken off the air...to my knowledge it all episodes were shown each consecutive week...

Granted though, I do understand the implication you are trying to say. Taboo of openly defined sex, incest, and lolita-complex are laid down explicitly in Japanese society as well. Hence, you see these shows shoved off to obscure UHF channels and/or shown late at night.
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Old 2004-03-03, 21:50   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
you are brilliant.

kingranger: you just barely make it over the 10 character/post thing dont you.

Yes it is japanese animation... but i wouldnt classify it under anime... so people cant say you are looking at anime porn

cuz it is something else.
Just curious.. Was that a sarcastic remark?

Anyways, i don't see the confusion here. It's a extreamly simple question to answer. Let me repeat for the 40th time in this thread. Hentai is anime by defintion.

And my hentai Folder does and always will remain inside my Anime folder. Is that not a good enough answer?

BTW. Many of my friends find hentai disgusting, without even seeing it and without giving me a strait answer. I've always found this annoying. I was born and raised in the USA, but i don't have this mentality. I don't know where this American idea got planted in the minds of the people.
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Last edited by Worldestroyer; 2004-03-04 at 07:03.
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Old 2004-03-03, 22:56   Link #54
Lina Inverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
actualy could we just start associating all anime with hentai. I hate close minded people, and people that will never try any thing because they THINK they won't like it.

Since hentai litteraly means strange person that fits basicly all anime, since I have never seen an anime without at least one strange character

Yes I also advocate the removal off all warning lables from basic house hold products. I want to see more people die from blowdrying thier hair before they get out of the shower. If they don't kill them selves via stupidity I am going to have to end up talking to them at one point or another, so lets just save the time of me having to kill them shall we?
I fully agree there! Let it go its way, and stupid people will remove themselves from the gene pool, as they should! (see also "Darwin Awards")
Remove all those warning plates, like the "Do not drink" signs on toilets! (geez, how braindead can you be to drink out of a toilet? This can only happen in America...)
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Old 2004-03-04, 05:24   Link #55
Lambda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Sister Princess aired in your country? Can you tell me how they translated the twelve different ways of saying "older brother?" (in no specific order: oniichan, oniichama, anii, oniisama, oniitama, aniue-sama, niisama, aniki, ani-kun, anigimi-sama, niichama, niiya)

Or if you meant SisPre being taken off the air over here in Japan, then I can't recall that show being taken off the air...to my knowledge it all episodes were shown each consecutive week...
If I recall correctly, that happened in the Phillippines or somewhere like that. It's licensed for the US, (some speculate accidentally), but I don't think it's available there in any form yet.
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Old 2004-03-05, 01:10   Link #56
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In my opinion, hentai is anime. I don't agree with it, but it is undeniably part of anime culture. If a good series comes out, you'll definitely be able to find hentai on it, whether you want to or not [ever make that mistake on Google?].

kj1980: I liked your comment on American otakus and big breasted female anime characters. We have an anime club at our school and watch new episodes every Friday. Within half a second after a top-heavy girl appears on the screen, there are comments [then some oos, aahhs, and laughter]. As soon as they go "bounce," they repeat. Stupid freshmen and sophomores.
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Old 2004-03-05, 03:43   Link #57
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Hentai is anime with a specific focus in displaying sexual activity that is largely exclusive of other plot devices. With the term anime being derived from Japan, which is short for 'japanese animation', hentai is condered anime by definition.
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Old 2004-03-05, 13:44   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Granted though, I do understand the implication you are trying to say. Taboo of openly defined sex, incest, and lolita-complex are laid down explicitly in Japanese society as well. Hence, you see these shows shoved off to obscure UHF channels and/or shown late at night.
But here, people would fight to remove such things entirely from the market and ban its existance. I mean, I had to fight the government to release a siezed issue of E-Login magazine I tried to get in by mail. They sent me a letter saying they were "persuing further investigation to verify that it's contents were considered within the acceptable limits of canadian law." I didn't think the magazine was *that* bad in terms of content. They did release it weeks later, so I guess it passed, probably simply because they wern't able to label obviously non-realistic art as porography and charge it as such. Interesting stuff.
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Old 2004-03-05, 18:10   Link #59
babbito2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Sister Princess aired in your country? Can you tell me how they translated the twelve different ways of saying "older brother?"
It was fansubbed. Fansubbers get to leave stuff like that as-is and just throw notes up here and there, which spares them a lot of grief. IIRC they just romanized the different terms in the subtitles and explained that they all meant "older brother."
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Old 2004-03-05, 18:25   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Sister Princess aired in your country? Can you tell me how they translated the twelve different ways of saying "older brother?" (in no specific order: oniichan, oniichama, anii, oniisama, oniitama, aniue-sama, niisama, aniki, ani-kun, anigimi-sama, niichama, niiya)
this may not relate to Sister Princess, but in Tenchi Muyo, Sasami will say onii-chan to Tenchi in your country, but in Western world, Sasami just says Tenshi's name always with no repectable prefix. this might be the same thing with all the anime that says oniichan, oneechan, ojisan, etc.
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