AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Haruhi Suzumiya

Notices

View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 08 Rating
Perfect 10 31 11.31%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 9 3.28%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 5.84%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 5.47%
6 out of 10 : Average 14 5.11%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 11 4.01%
4 out of 10 : Poor 9 3.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad 8 2.92%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 13 4.74%
1 out of 10 : Painful 148 54.01%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-08-02, 08:53   Link #421
Triple_R
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
I actually think the rage will end if they go past the eighth episode. To explain, I've created this handy chart detailing (American) fan reaction to Endless Eight.

Spoiler for spoiler:


Like I wrote in the chart, if they go past the eighth episode, all bets are off. Mostly because people won't have an accurate predictor of when E8 will end: meaning, their will be a catastrophic burst of rage followed by a quiet that will probably endure long after E8 really does end. I can't say this will be the case with Japanese viewers as well, but to me, I don't see them reacting any differently. Even those who really like the show and want to see new content animated will probably force themselves to become indifferent to avoid this weekly dose of disappointment; and I think there are some who, even if they intend to come back when they leave, will simply forget to; and there will be a substantial number who will never return for the sense of betrayal. In any case, if they go past 8 episodes, the Haruhi fanbase will be changed forever, mostly in that it will probably become drastically smaller. Whether Kyoani or Kadokawa will be able to continue the series with only those who remain after such a purge is not something I can say, not having a perfect enough understand of the economics of anime. But I can say with relative certainty that any mainstream following the show had will be effectively wiped out.

Oh, and yes, I have too much free time. Far too much.

I agree with a lot of this. Very astute observations, I think.

Once people leave a show they often forget to, or simply never get around to, coming back. They move on to new interests and forget old interests. For myself, this was true of Bleach, the InuYasha anime, and most recently, Rental Magica (I just lost interest in it about half-way through). One of my closer friends was like this for Nanoha Striker S, and a couple of Gundams. I really don't think that Haruhi is immune to this.

On an artistic level, Endless Eight going eight episodes has always struck many of us as a possibility - hoped against but a realistic worst-case scenario (for those of us against this arc concept). If we go pass eight episodes... the next best artistic-based prediction is that Endless Eight will not end until the last Haruhi episode in August ends (August being the eighth month and the end of Summer)... in other words, the entire season is shot.

So, I think that you're right that, in the event that this arc doesn't end in the next episode, there will be a huge burst of rage... followed with a lot of people just leaving for good. At the moment, I think I personally would continue to endure, but I'm not sure. Right now, and for whatever reason, I feel pretty confident that Endless Eight will end with the next episode. It's just a very strong sense I have - a sense that these art teams are simply trying too hard for this to be a deliberate attempt to kill the anime, and also a sense that surely the creative decision makers aren't reckless enough to go for more than eight episodes of this when even their own art teams are poking fun at it now. So, should they do the unthinkable... it's hard to know for certain how I'd react to that.

The only thing I will say, though - once people get into a groove; get into a weekly routine; it can be hard to break out of it. In a sad masochistic way I'm actually starting to get use to this Endless Eight weekly disappointment...
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 09:10   Link #422
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
I don't think people will "leave for good"... they might leave for an arc... maybe for the season... but, whenever they decide to animate the Disappearance Arc... it's gonna be just like the return of Classic Coke...
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 09:43   Link #423
Sister Princess
Easy Operation
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
I don't think people will "leave for good"... they might leave for an arc... maybe for the season... but, whenever they decide to animate the Disappearance Arc... it's gonna be just like the return of Classic Coke...
Which in reality only justify their decisions.
Sister Princess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 09:56   Link #424
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Princess View Post
Which in reality only justify their decisions.
To be completely honest... I have no idea why people are raging... there is nothing you can do at this point... it's been in production for 3 years... the episodes are made... all you can really do is have faith that KyoAni/Kadokawa/whoever knows what they are doing and have something big planned to turn it all around...

Maybe, I'd understand the rage if this was the end of the season and everything was all said and done... but I'll wait until everything plays out and then make my decision...
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 10:23   Link #425
mokuseimaru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
I don't think people will "leave for good"... they might leave for an arc... maybe for the season... but, whenever they decide to animate the Disappearance Arc... it's gonna be just like the return of Classic Coke...
The difference is that Coca Cola had 99 years to establish itself (the original formula was first produced in 1886, and New Coke came out in 1985). Haruhi premiered on April 2 2006 and it's first season wrapped on July 2 2006, which makes three months air time. About 2 years and 11 months later (roughly), on May 22, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody aired. So of the 38 months in which they were producing Haruhi "Classic", they were only producing new units for the first three months. So for the Coke comparison to stand up, Coke would have had to halt production in 1894, then started selling it again in 1984 with the old recipe for about a year before they switched to New Coke.

The main thing is, for most people, there was never a whole lot of exposure to Haruhi in the first place, so the hankering for Haruhi "Classic" may never set in, since they never acquired an overpowering taste for it in the first place.
mokuseimaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 10:33   Link #426
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
Not enough exposure? Have you seen the Hare Hare Yukai dance being imitated from across the globe? In the bubble world of anime fans... Haruhi is pretty much like coke (the drink and the drug)...
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 10:44   Link #427
Anime Daisuki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
I haven't started watching the 2nd season yet but all I'm hearing about is this endless 8 thing. May someone bring me up to date?
__________________
Anime Daisuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 10:46   Link #428
mokuseimaru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
Not enough exposure? Have you seen the Hare Hare Yukai dance being imitated from across the globe? In the bubble world of anime fans... Haruhi is pretty much like coke (the drink and the drug)...
I think relentlessflame mentioned that the exposure the show got in internet "memes" was misleading as to its popularity.

In any case, the show was indeed popular with both otaku and casual fans, but it was only because the latter party showed a bit of interest that it became a candidate for a second season, which, from what I understand, isn't often done with a show like Haruhi that relies almost solely on DVD sales for profit. Endless Eight has already gone beyond what a reasonably patient casual fan can tolerate; but at this point, even such a fan might come back. But give him a bad enough taste in his mouth and he will forswear the stuff and tell all his friends to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Daisuki View Post
I haven't started watching the 2nd season yet but all I'm hearing about is this endless 8 thing. May someone bring me up to date?
You're likely to get a lot of "you don't want to know"s here, so I just tell it to you matter of factly. Endless Eight is a story that takes place after Kyon et al. get back from the island during summer vacation. Haruhi wants them to spend the last two weeks of their vacation doing typical summer activities for a Japanese teenager; but on August 31, Haruhi still feels there is something she hasn't done and so subconsciously resets time to repeat the last two weeks over again. This has happened 15,500+ times. Yuki can remember every iteration; the others, with the exception of Haruhi, are just having strong deja vu. But while the original short story only covers the final iteration, in which Kyon figures out what Haruhi wants and time is able to move on, Kyoani in its wisdom has decided to make seven nearly identical episodes of Endless Eight---the main differences being the girl's bathing suits and yukata's for the O-bon festival, as well as the occasion artsy camera angle. Next week will be the eighth, and we all hope that will finish it; but after all this, who knows.

That's about as plain a summary as I can provide.
mokuseimaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 10:50   Link #429
Triple_R
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Daisuki View Post
I haven't started watching the 2nd season yet but all I'm hearing about is this endless 8 thing. May someone bring me up to date?
Episode 1 of the 2nd Season is Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody. A nice stand-alone episode.

...Every episode since then (7 and counting now; there will be at least 8 in total) is an Endless Eight episode. Endless Eight refers to an end-of-summer time loop that the SOS Brigade went through over 10,000 times. In the Haruhi books, we only see the final concluding loop of the time loop - in the Haruhi books, Endless Eight is only 30 pages long.

KyoAni and/or Kadokawa decided to show at least eight different loops from the >10000 loops. So, we've basically been watching the same episode over and over again, only with some minor dialogue changes, and significant visual changes, from one loop shown (in one episode) to the next loop shown (in the next episode). Think of Groundhog Day, but with far less variance between the loops.

So...

Episode 1 - Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody

Episodes 2 through 8 - Endless Eight (still ongoing)

Endless Eight is all that people are talking about because, aside from Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody from several weeks back, it's all there is to talk about.


I hope that answers your question satisfactorily.
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 10:50   Link #430
Lummie
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Daisuki View Post
I haven't started watching the 2nd season yet but all I'm hearing about is this endless 8 thing. May someone bring me up to date?
To say it short: There are 8 episodes, the dialogue in all 8 is the same. Everything that happens in every episode is the same as the episode before and the after. Practically: your watching the same episode 8 times over. With the only difference that they're wearing other outfits. Nothing else.
Lummie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 10:55   Link #431
Anime Daisuki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Well on the bright side, I only need to download 2 episodes this season eh? Lol... what are they thinking....
__________________
Anime Daisuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 11:03   Link #432
prnoct90
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Daisuki View Post
Well on the bright side, I only need to download 2 episodes this season eh? Lol... what are they thinking....
That's not entirely true. I would download 1, 2, 3 and 9. There are important differences in the three different endless eight episodes.
prnoct90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 11:06   Link #433
ac195
Koh nara dekiru!!!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: August 17th - 31st
Quote:
Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
In any case, the show was indeed popular with both otaku and casual fans, but it was only because the latter party showed a bit of interest that it became a candidate for a second season, which, from what I understand, isn't often done with a show like Haruhi that relies almost solely on DVD sales for profit. Endless Eight has already gone beyond what a reasonably patient casual fan can tolerate; but at this point, even such a fan might come back. But give him a bad enough taste in his mouth and he will forswear the stuff and tell all his friends to do the same.
I've never thought of Haruhi as a title that was aimed at the "casual fan."

Last edited by ac195; 2009-08-02 at 11:28.
ac195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 11:08   Link #434
Anime Daisuki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by prnoct90 View Post
That's not entirely true. I would download 1, 2, 3 and 9. There are important differences in the three different endless eight episodes.
Thank you and everyone else for such prompt answers. Really appreciate it.
__________________
Anime Daisuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 12:35   Link #435
mokuseimaru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac195 View Post
I've never thought of Haruhi as a title that was aimed at the "casual fan."
Examine the chart listed on page four of the Q & A, breaking down how various shows were received in 2006:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y View Post
There's an interesting chart showing the relationships between how many time the anime was mentioned in Hatena (a popular search and blogging service) vs the number of posts about it in 2ch. I translated the ones near the top:

Animes near top left: niche anime (popular among animaniacs or hardcore otakus)
Animes near bottom right: mainstream anime (popular among more casual viewers)
Animes near top right: popular anime (popular among casual viewers and animaniacs alike)
Animes near bottom left: unpopular anime (not popular)

Notice the numbers aren't spaced out linearly either, Haruhi's post count in 2ch is actually more than double than that of Higurashi's.
So, Haruhi has (or had) huge across the board appeal.
mokuseimaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 14:05   Link #436
typhonsentra
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Princess View Post
Which in reality only justify their decisions.
... You do realize "New Coke" was one of the most expensive and quickly failing product launches ever, correct? Pepsi saw it's largest sales gain in the history of the company during this period of time, it was one of the most famous and largest marketing disasters ever. They were able to recover because they quickly admitted fault and reintroduced the old formula but the idea that it was all part of a llarger plan to get people to talk about Coke again is laughable considering how expensive the entire episode was for them.

The difference with Haruhi of course is that they haven't apologized nor done anything to accommodate the fanbase, I'm willing to bet any damage to the brand from this episode is permanent. Not crippling, but I doubt even when they go back to "Good" material that we'll ever see sales like we used to. Disappearance probably won't even sell as well as the first season of Clannad (Hell, E8 might not even do as well as Haruhi-chan), assuming we ever get it.
typhonsentra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 15:00   Link #437
Crontica
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
They said this Endless Arc was going to be 8 episodes right? since 2 episodes where used to start the series, it may end at episode 10 or at the end of august.
Crontica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 15:38   Link #438
kissthestick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London, England
Age: 27
godamn my man
kissthestick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 17:09   Link #439
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by typhonsentra View Post
... You do realize "New Coke" was one of the most expensive and quickly failing product launches ever, correct? Pepsi saw it's largest sales gain in the history of the company during this period of time, it was one of the most famous and largest marketing disasters ever. They were able to recover because they quickly admitted fault and reintroduced the old formula but the idea that it was all part of a llarger plan to get people to talk about Coke again is laughable considering how expensive the entire episode was for them.

The difference with Haruhi of course is that they haven't apologized nor done anything to accommodate the fanbase, I'm willing to bet any damage to the brand from this episode is permanent. Not crippling, but I doubt even when they go back to "Good" material that we'll ever see sales like we used to. Disappearance probably won't even sell as well as the first season of Clannad (Hell, E8 might not even do as well as Haruhi-chan), assuming we ever get it.
Its even more "complicated"... Old Coke was a sugar-based recipe --- when they returned with "Classic Coke", the recipe was changed to a corn syrup based. There is speculation that the "New Coke" mess was used as a diversion (over a year) so that few people would be able to compare the taste between Old Coke and Classic Coke.

Anyone who's had a sugar-based Coke from a non-US source (typically Mexico) usually comes to think of the corn syrup Coke as hogswill. Corn syrup is nasty stuff and has been injected in almost *everything* as filler and sweetener. There's considerable coincidence between its prevalent use and the avalanche of US morbid obesity.

(In the US, corn syrup is cheaper than sugar due to corporate subsidies to the corn agricultural industry (e.g. ADM Corp.)

-ahem-

Whatever we think of the "artistic merits" of the Haruhi situation, its clear that at least to many Western viewers -- its been an amazing miscalculated failure. My sources in Japan say that the otaku they've heard are still taking a "wait and see how it plays out" attitude.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-08-02, 18:04   Link #440
Jenni
B-baka!
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona
Age: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to Jenni
A franchise, returning after a long hiatus, disappoints longtime fans with new material of inferior quality? This has NEVER happened before!

In all seriousness, though... the best thing Kyoani can do at this point is animate the next season in a timely fashion (i.e. a year or less), preferably with the style and quality of the first season. That will appeal to fan's nostalgia for the 'good old Haruhi'.
__________________

Come check out Project Haruhi!
Jenni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.