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View Poll Results: Suzumiya Haruhi (2009) - Episode 08 Rating
Perfect 10 31 11.31%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 9 3.28%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 5.84%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 5.47%
6 out of 10 : Average 14 5.11%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 11 4.01%
4 out of 10 : Poor 9 3.28%
3 out of 10 : Bad 8 2.92%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 13 4.74%
1 out of 10 : Painful 148 54.01%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-07-30, 16:25   Link #161
mokuseimaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I don't know much of anything, actually. But I don't see how flagellating the franchise is going to help matters. What I'm trying to say is: "With all this talk of hoping it suffers, you may very well kill it." Thereby ridding the chance for anything new in the future. At least let it run its full course.
Of course, no one wants Haruhi to end. I despise the decisions of the creators, but while I do want them to suffer for it---if not for producing 8 (or more) episodes of Endless Eight, then for the "re-airing with new episodes" thing being a least partially a hoax (because episodes 3-8 have been basically the same with slight cosmetic differences---that is to say, they're not really "new" in the sense of covering new material) that may or may not be a lead in to a "true" second season---I want them (or someone at least) to continue making the show. But if the shows continuation is contingent upon the fans actually buying Endless Eight DVDs, then I would say the future looks grim.
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Old 2009-07-30, 16:28   Link #162
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Don't try to pin this on the fans - this is KyoAni and/or Kadokawa's own doing. This is their stupid little stunt that may self-inflict their flagship anime into death.
Frankly, I hope it does die. Good riddance, at this point.

Of course, that'll probably mean no new novels either, but given Kadokawa's track record, they'd probably ruin them somehow too.

Better to remember this franchise when it wasn't the biggest joke of the anime world. Sort of like how fans are remembering Micheal Jackson now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
But if the shows continuation is contingent upon the fans actually buying Endless Eight DVDs, then I would say the future looks grim.
I'd say that any and all new material (novels included) is contingent on E8's DVD sales.

Which is the whole joke.


Yes I'm bitter shut up.
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Old 2009-07-30, 16:41   Link #163
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Look, I don't want the Endless Eight DVDs to do so badly that this anime is finished.

BUT... I do want KyoAni and Kadokawa to pay some sort of price for this - to receive some sort of wake-up call - because otherwise, we as anime fans are probably going to see more stunts like this in the future... and from more than this anime alone.

Mind you, if KyoAni/Kadokawa gives us 12 straight episodes of Endless Eight (as 2ch speculates - thanks for the info, bayoab ), then it won't matter what any of us says. Some of the Endless Eight DVDs will bomb if 6 of them are nothing but Endless Eight - only your hardest of hard core collectors will actually get all 6 (whereas if it was all different episodes with unique content...).

Don't try to pin this on the fans - this is KyoAni and/or Kadokawa's own doing. This is their stupid little stunt that may self-inflict their flagship anime into death.
Kadokawa ALREADY paid the price; they paid the salaries and the TV slots for Endless Eight.

You make it sound like everything they've done has cost them nothing at this point. We just wasted bandwidth watching episodes; they paid MONEY. The way i see it, they can do whatever that want as long as they spend their own cash doing it.
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Old 2009-07-30, 16:44   Link #164
mokuseimaru
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Frankly, I hope it does die. Good riddance, at this point.

Of course, that'll probably mean no new novels either, but given Kadokawa's track record, they'd probably ruin them somehow too.

Better to remember this franchise when it wasn't the biggest joke of the anime world. Sort of like how fans are remembering Micheal Jackson now.



I'd say that any and all new material (novels included) is contingent on E8's DVD sales.

Which is the whole joke.


Yes I'm bitter shut up.
Well, I think that even should the show die, the novels need not. I mean, Melancholy was released in 2001, wasn't it? So they can probably get along without it.

You know, I really wonder what Tanigawa thinks of this. Of course, he probably had no say, but I wonder if he was even told beforehand. I doubt he would have thought this was a good idea---for all the bizarreness of the subject matter, Tanigawa isn't a huge stylistic iconoclast as the anime might make you think. He experimented with the alpha/beta threads in Disassociation , but compared to a Joyce or a Faulkner he's fairly conservative.
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Old 2009-07-30, 16:44   Link #165
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Kadokawa ALREADY paid the price; they paid the salaries and the TV slots for Endless Eight.

You make it sound like everything they've done has cost them nothing at this point. We just wasted bandwidth watching episodes; they paid MONEY. The way i see it, they can do whatever that want as long as they spend their own cash doing it.
The thing is they probably expect the fans to foot the bill with DVD sales.
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Old 2009-07-30, 16:47   Link #166
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Frankly, I hope it does die. Good riddance, at this point.

Of course, that'll probably mean no new novels either, but given Kadokawa's track record, they'd probably ruin them somehow too.

Better to remember this franchise when it wasn't the biggest joke of the anime world. Sort of like how fans are remembering Micheal Jackson now.



I'd say that any and all new material (novels included) is contingent on E8's DVD sales.

Which is the whole joke.


Yes I'm bitter shut up.


I also think that DVD sales are important here.

That's what makes it such a tough situation.


If the DVDs for this season sell downright terribly... then this anime, and possibly the Haruhi franchise as a whole, is dead. An anime with such incredible potential is finished, with no hope of revival. Sad... very, very sad.


OTOH, if the Endless Eight DVDs sell really well... then the anime industry as a whole will stand up and think "Ha ha ha ha ha! These otaku will buy anything... anything... that has a cute marketable face on it! Time to cut costs back on animation quality and script-writing quality, boys and girls! We're going to do this on the cheap because as Endless Eight DVD sales prove, otakus will buy anything!" Watch the quality of anime (especially prominent anime) plummet. This is not just sad, this is a disaster.

It's almost a no-win situation...


Somewhere between "downright terribly" and "really well" there may be a sweet spot where KyoAni/Kadokawa goes "Ok... that fell just a bit short of our expectations... Haruhi can still sell, but we have to scrap stunts like Endless Eight in order to sell really well. Let's get back to doing this the Season 1 way!"

I'm hoping for the sweet spot.


Still, your Michael Jackson comparison resonates with me...
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Old 2009-07-30, 16:52   Link #167
Midonin
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Watch the quality of anime (especially prominent anime) plummet. This is not just sad, this is a disaster.
I think some of the more critical/paranoid/self-obsessed fans have been declaring that for years. Despite the shifting culture and changing of the market tides, anime isn't dead yet. I don't think E8's succeeding would cause as significant of a change as you're fearmongering.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:00   Link #168
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by mokuseimaru View Post
Tanigawa isn't a huge stylistic iconoclast as the anime might make you think.
No, that was Yamakan's doing in S1, I'm pretty sure.

The Haruhi novels are pretty traditional, they're just clever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
The thing is they probably expect the fans to foot the bill with DVD sales.
I think so too.

My current theory is that they underestimated the fanbase's reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
OTOH, if the Endless Eight DVDs sell really well... then the anime industry as a whole will stand up and think "Ha ha ha ha ha! These otaku will buy anything... anything...
But... they already know this. Otaku WILL buy anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I think some of the more critical/paranoid/self-obsessed fans have been declaring that for years. Despite the shifting culture and changing of the market tides, anime isn't dead yet. I don't think E8's succeeding would cause as significant of a change as you're fearmongering.
This isn't "ANIME USED TO BE BETTER WHEN I WAS YOUNGER", this is an actual concern.

Haruhi is VERY influential. Well, it used to be.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:09   Link #169
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I think some of the more critical/paranoid/self-obsessed fans have been declaring that for years. Despite the shifting culture and changing of the market tides, anime isn't dead yet. I don't think E8's succeeding would cause as significant of a change as you're fearmongering.
I'm not fearmongering - I'm presenting a fair, honest, and reasonable viewpoint on this. Like Kaisos said, Haruhi is influential. So, if Endless Eight does well...

Midonin... Seriously now, is this good entertainment, in your mind? Is this a smart way to treat your fans? Is it fun to watch the same plot unfold before your eyes seven or more times in a matter of only a few weeks? Do you honestly blame the fans for reacting to this repetition the way that many of us are?

My favorite movie of all time is probably Tim Burton's Batman (the one with Jack Nicholson as the Joker). As much as I loved that movie, I can honestly say that after viewing it four times in four weeks, I would not want to watch it again for a very long time.

Is this aversion to repetition such a difficult concept to understand and accept?
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:17   Link #170
Midonin
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I can understand where people are coming from, but some of the reactions and absurd metaphors people have been using have been more in line with some of the types of the fans I've learned that I should probably avoid. All that over a TV show is a bit unnerving.

As for why I don't have a problem with it: Each episode is slightly different, the story is a time loop, and it's only 24 minutes of my viewing time once a week in a week where I watch and do plenty of other things. I'm certain that it will end eventually and I trust that the producers know exactly what they're doing. It doesn't bother me that much.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:19   Link #171
M.Marangio
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Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
The GREEN has a picture floating around of it. (With a date of 9/25, KABA-6002)
The second DVD is also appearing in the lists of online shops with two catalogue numbers: KABA-6002 (limited edition) and KABA-6102 (normal version).

Chara-ani has some additional informations:
http://www.chara-ani.com/details.asp?prdid=B09701844
http://www.chara-ani.com/details.asp?prdid=B09701845
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:20   Link #172
Roger Rambo
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People who get really upset over the show are to invested. I agree. However that's hardly some carte blanche to just declare everything the producers good automatically golden. There are generally 2 types of people in this thread. The one's who overreact and think this is the end of the world and the people who convince themselves this is actually high quality.

I derive great amusement watching the two parties rip each other up.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:30   Link #173
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
People who get really upset over the show are to invested. I agree. However that's hardly some carte blanche to just declare everything the producers good automatically golden. There are generally 2 types of people in this thread. The one's who overreact and think this is the end of the world and the people who convince themselves this is actually high quality.
I'm part of the group that's just generally bitter.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:32   Link #174
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
People who get really upset over the show are to invested. I agree. However that's hardly some carte blanche to just declare everything the producers good automatically golden. There are generally 2 types of people in this thread. The one's who overreact and think this is the end of the world and the people who convince themselves this is actually high quality.

I derive great amusement watching the two parties rip each other up.
I'll admit that I'm probably too invested in this anime for my own good. Of all currently ongoing anime, this is the one that, by far, catches my imagination the most. The characters, and ideas, behind it are simply superb.

But yeah, I'm too invested in it.

It doesn't help that my biggest interest next to anime is pro hockey (NHL), and this is NHL off-season... I was kind of hoping that anime wouldn't make this feel like an endless Summer... *ahem*
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:32   Link #175
Sute443
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Kadokawa ALREADY paid the price; they paid the salaries and the TV slots for Endless Eight.

You make it sound like everything they've done has cost them nothing at this point. We just wasted bandwidth watching episodes; they paid MONEY. The way i see it, they can do whatever that want as long as they spend their own cash doing it.
There is a very large difference between what you described (commonly known as investment) and paying the price for something the way it is being used in this thread. See, people usually expect a return on their investment; to profit from the money they spent. It's the old saying "You have to spend money to make money." "Paying the price" as it was used in the post you responded to would mean suffering negative consequences. In this context, it could be a failure of the investment to make a profit.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:35   Link #176
bayoab
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Originally Posted by M.Marangio View Post
The second DVD is also appearing in the lists of online shops with two catalogue numbers: KABA-6002 (limited edition) and KABA-6102 (normal version).

Chara-ani has some additional informations:
http://www.chara-ani.com/details.asp?prdid=B09701844
http://www.chara-ani.com/details.asp?prdid=B09701845
Interesting, they list english subtitles... but they don't for DVD4... huh?
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:38   Link #177
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As far as the Home Video Release is concenred ether two things are going to happen

1) Kadokawa gets a very rude awakening when the volumes don't sell.

2) Japan is confirmed to be a country of stupids who will eat whatever swill is shoved in their faces.

and by christ I do NOT want it to be #2.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:39   Link #178
Kaisos Erranon
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2) Japan is confirmed to be a country of stupids who will eat whatever swill is shoved in their faces.
Haruhi-brand tissues.

That is all.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:40   Link #179
W-General
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Seriously, fans, if you have any common sense, do not buy the Endless Eight DVDs when they come out (R1, R2, whatever region of DVDs you buy).

I used to buy anything Haruhi, DVDs, CDs, figures, novels, etc. But this is too much. I hope the Japanese Otaku get a point too - that is, animation companies HAVE NO RIGHT to toy with consumers like this - Kadokawa and KyoAni needs to be taught a lesson. I will buy the first DVD (R1) (with Bamboo Leaf and maybe 2 episodes of Endless Eight) and skip the rest (at least 2 DVDs) until the last episode of Endless Eight.


I will enjoy watching the crash of the DVD sales. e.g. Bamboo Leaf: 50,000 sold. Endless Eight: 100 sold.

EDIT: Actually I saw a pretty good idea: Buy the DVDs and smash them in a high-publicity event. But then again Kadokawa actually will make money from this so maybe not that great an idea after all - the point is to make Kadokawa and KyoAni suffer financially.
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Old 2009-07-30, 17:46   Link #180
Kaisos Erranon
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animation companies HAVE NO RIGHT to toy with consumers like this
Actually, they have every right.

Their reputation will just suffer, is all.
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